LT5 Assembly Project

[LGAFF]

Patiently waiting on the battery charger, left the dmn door ajar last night.....

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN4593.jpg

[LGAFF]

She runs, so far so good cranked it up and ran it for a few minutes at 2K.....break in tomorrow!!!

[Paul Workman]

She runs, so far so good cranked it up and ran it for a few minutes at 2K.....break in tomorrow!!!

Oh, man...That musta been a thrilling moment to hear your baby fire for the first time! You gonna bring 'er to the Morris Cruise Night on Saturday? It would be grand to see it...AND you too, of course!;)

p.

[tomtom72]

She runs, so far so good cranked it up and ran it for a few minutes at 2K.....break in tomorrow!!!

:thumbsup: Best sound track in the world! Enjoy your new toy Lee!


:cheers:
Tom

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Congrats, Lee!!!

[Daniel_Mc]

Congratulations Lee!!! Let us know how the break in goes and don't forget pictures :dancing

Daniel

[A26B]

She runs, so far so good cranked it up and ran it for a few minutes at 2K.....break in tomorrow!!!

No surprise here Lee, you have fought her fair all the way. Great job!

[cvette98pacecar]

The end result is worth the time and effort. Cant wait to see the new engine.

[Kb7tif]

Great work! Dont rush.

[LGAFF]

cams broken in 20 minutes at 2K

no leaks, no knock counts....so I think thats a good sign

Have a code 64, I think the 02 wiring is suspect

High Idle.....idlles at 1700....could be TB(138K miles) or maybe a vac leak, but the pump seems to be running infreuqunetly

Need a new battery, 5 minutes of the fan running

[LGAFF]

pardon the dust, this dmn thing is loud and lopey, cheap camera=poor sound

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/th_DSCN4595.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/?action=view&current=DSCN4595.mp4)

[Daniel_Mc]

Crap... I can't watch it on the office computer I have to wait until I get home...

Daniel

[LGAFF]

sound is really poor, sounds like a few rocks in a tin can....I called Dominic and let him listen in, sounds good....but needs a tune.

TB plate was sticking it idles at 750 with a big lope


Really wish I had a better camera

[Toni94ZR1]

I was following this thread since the beguining (2008) and in 2009 I disassembled the engine and began, on spare time, doing port work and preparing all the engine parts.
Now I'm waiting how your engine runs with your regrinding cams to do it in my engine, and beguin the engine assamble.
I'm anxious to see a video of your engine running !!!!
You did a great job :cheers:

My brother's ZR1 have a new battery I can send to you (Barcelona to USA) if this shorten the time to see a video of car running :-D:-D

Thanks for this great post...

Toni
(Barcelona)

[XfireZ51]

Sounds healthy!

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Lee, what size cams did you use?

You've inspired me to go take a drive.............

[LGAFF]

Intake: Primary 222/415 lift Secondary 236/425
Exhaust 221 415

[Toni94ZR1]

Lee, this is a direct regrinding job or it's necessary welding to reground the lobes and then grinding ?

Toni

[Toni94ZR1]

Lee, your TB is machined to 63 mm ?

Toni

[LGAFF]

My 92 has a 63mm, this one on the 90 is stock

[LGAFF]

Lee, this is a direct regrinding job or it's necessary welding to reground the lobes and then grinding ?

Toni

they are just reground

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN4598.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN4597.jpg

[LGAFF]

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN4599-1.jpg

[XfireZ51]

Lee,

Swap the TBs. The black one needs the 63mm more than the 92 does.

[Toni94ZR1]

Lee, your engine looks like my brother lt5. But only have same painting, my brother's engine are stock. He did a complete engine rebuild one year ago but all inside are stock only SW heders, SW X pipe, B&B exhaust ,Fidanza flywheel, Mopar 4.10. , Marc H. Tune, new shrowd + 2 speed Motorcraft single fan, BAER 6 pistons front brake and DeWitts Radiator.
Paint are VHT black wrinkle

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/251/68514174.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2316/95830961.jpg

[Toni94ZR1]

I think do what xfirez51 said it's the best way to go.
Lee if you have stock and 63mm TB it's better install the big one and you will have the engine ready for a good Tune.
I can't wait to see your Dyno engine numbers.
This is all the stuff we plug to the car when we tune our ZR1.

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6725/30853685.jpg

Innovate twin AFR, Moates Stuff, Ostrich 2.0, Batronix Eprom Burner, Chip Toaster, Datamaster and Tunercat software

[XfireZ51]

Toni,

Where did you get all the proms?
Pujols? Any relation to the futbol player?

[Toni94ZR1]

I have proms for all the years of ZR1, 12 in total, from different sources, Rockauto, eBay, Marc H .... on 2008 I bought 5 from Rockauto. Now is dificult to find proms.
We have some spare parts for our Z, brand new crankshaft, 40.000 miles 1990 ZR1 engine bought in Madrid one year ago for 1.700 euros (about 2200 USD), 2 ZF S6-40, 2 differencial, plenums, sterters, water pumps ....
We are 6 friends have ZR1:
one 94 zr1, two 93 zr1, three 90 zr1
and all of us have some spare parts.
The zr1 it's our drug ! so we need parts to keep the Z's running.
Here in Spain we know about 25 ZR1, all from 90 to 93 and only one 94 (my ZR1).

Nooo,:-D:-D I have not any relation to Puyol (Barcelona futbol player) but I saw him with Gererd Pique ( boyfrient of Shakira) two weeks ago in Barcelona. Great guys.

[Toni94ZR1]

Pictures of 90 engine
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/9523/60621880.jpg
We did a litle zr1 gathering, 6 ZR1. The yelow engine is a 600 HP Mark Haibek engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX4TwwhTslo&feature=channel&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QleZKiAngko&feature=autoplay&list=ULRX4TwwhTslo&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VedQod8t3qQ&feature=autoplay&list=ULQleZKiAngko&playnext=2

[Toni94ZR1]

NO, the 380ci is the best bang for the buck.

Lee Scored big time on the 368 pistons. If you dont have a pistons yet, and have to buy them new go for the 380 ci.

Polo-1, 380ci is at the same price than a 368 ?
If i'm wright ,on a 368 engine only change liners and pistons from stock, but on a 380 ci need liners, pistons and a new crankshaft and maybe conecting rods.

[XfireZ51]

I don't know. 380 or 368 doesn't do it for me like 396 or 427.
And we now have 350's that are equaling the output of 368s of just a few years ago.

[Pete]

I was following this thread since the beguining (2008) and in 2009 I disassembled the engine and began, on spare time, doing port work and preparing all the engine parts.
Now I'm waiting how your engine runs with your regrinding cams to do it in my engine, and beguin the engine assamble.
I'm anxious to see a video of your engine running !!!!
You did a great job :cheers:

My brother's ZR1 have a new battery I can send to you (Barcelona to USA) if this shorten the time to see a video of car running :-D:-D

Thanks for this great post...

Toni
(Barcelona)

Toni,what are you waiting for regrinds work all the fast Z's have regrinds,nuff said.
No need to wait,just do it.:)

Pete

[Pete]

sound is really poor, sounds like a few rocks in a tin can....I called Dominic and let him listen in, sounds good....but needs a tune.

TB plate was sticking it idles at 750 with a big lope


Really wish I had a better camera

Yeap,that's Corsa for you wait till you hear it from the outside at WOT,talk about loud fart can.
and your down 10-15hp with that exhaust.

Pete

[Toni94ZR1]

Toni,what are you waiting for regrinds work all the fast Z's have regrinds,nuff said.
No need to wait,just do it.:)

Pete



Yes Pete, I think is the way to go do a regrind and as xfirez51 said, the performance of a 350 + full porting + regrind are equivalent to a more expensive 368 + porting done few years ago.

Pete as I can see you are an expert guru on LT5 cams configuration, are this the best (power + drivability) regrind allowed on a 94Z's stock cams?
Duration @ .050
Intake: Primary 222 dur/415 lift , Secondary 236 dur/425 lift
Exhaust 222 dur/415 lift

Are the stock 94 LT5 cam specs the following?
Intake Prim 214/390 Sec 229/390
Exhaust Duration 214/390

Toni

[Pete]

Yes Pete, I think is the way to go do a regrind and as xfirez51 said, the performance of a 350 + full porting + regrind are equivalent to a more expensive 368 + porting done few years ago.

Pete as I can see you are an expert guru on LT5 cams configuration, are this the best (power + drivability) regrind allowed on a 94Z's stock cams?
Duration @ .050
Intake: Primary 222 dur/415 lift , Secondary 236 dur/425 lift
Exhaust 222 dur/415 lift

Are the stock 94 LT5 cam specs the following?
Intake Prim 214/390 Sec 229/390
Exhaust Duration 214/390

Toni

Yes,on the stock cam specs.

I don't see the reason for split intake cams,but the specs look good.
Here's what i have in my 350
Intake: .242 .450 pri/sec
Exhaust: .224 .420

Pete

[Toni94ZR1]

Yes,on the stock cam specs.

I don't see the reason for split intake cams,but the specs look good.
Here's what i have in my 350
Intake: .242 .450 pri/sec
Exhaust: .224 .420


Pete


Wooow Pete, you have a very big intake cam, this will do a rough idle and high speed idling?

Your relative little exhaust cam I think is because you don't loose too much low end torque and car driveability, large exhaust duration will probably cause a decrease in power on a stock 350.

Yes, same (Prim, Sec) intake lobe profile shape is the best design and give more power, diferent profile cause a different (Prim, Sec) air speed flow filling the cylinders so can cause turbulent air flow in the inlet runner when Plenum and IH are Siamese .

As I will assemble stock cams regrinds or not, I only do siamesed runner on the plenum, the IH and Head are no siamesed only porting to 36'5 mm to keep independent air volume storage and air speed. Siamesed inlet plenum it's a must because total inlet length measures about 14 in. from plenum to valve seat, too long and the plenum inlet runner have a bad 90 degree curve, I smooth the short corner ( make the radius bigger ) as much as possible of the 90 deg. curve of the plenum port to minimize the air flow loose.

To get a higher lift the lobe base circle had to be regrind (decrease in base diameter) keeping the same lobe nose. The primary lobe has a big lobe acceleration rate and at the secondary the acceleration rate is less. If regrinds both base circles to get .425 lift (prim, Sec) the acceleration rate on primary will be too high so will need bigger valve spring to control floating valve problem. The solution to decrease the acceleration rate is increase duration @ .050 but the primary lobe does not allow do this, needs to be reground and then regrind. .415 lift may be are the maximum lift primary lobe admit to keep the floating problem under control. If regrind the base circle to get a .415 lift i think the maximum resulting duration will be about .222. on a primary lobe. Doing a cycle graph will tell me the max duration allowed when regrind to .415 lift.

As I can see your inlet cams are not the stock regrinds, may be are a SGC stage III ?

And your exhaust cams I doubt if are stock regrinds or SGC stage I ?

As the inlet and exhaust cams are different, not a single cam engine, you can modify the Lobe Centerline Angles (LCA) so the amount of overlap. The more overlap (tight LCA) an engine has, the greater tendency it has to run badly at low rpm, low vacuum and bad idling but good cylinder filling so more power.

Which are the timing numbers of your cams, LCA or Overlap and Intake Open Degree from TDC. ?

Pete I know my English is not very good, if you don’t understand what I said please let me know and I will explain on a different way.

Thanks very much
Toni

[Toni94ZR1]

Lee, Which are the timing numbers you set on your regrind cams, LCA or Overlap and Intake Open Degree from TDC. ?
Toni

[LGAFF]

114 intake, 108 Exhaust cam timing

Dominic did a chip for me so the car is more drivable....but it was a generic....need to tune it on a dyno and make some corrections. Car is running good oil pressure is great, running cool, no issues so far.

Big thanks to Pete, Bob, and Dominic for their advice during the build


Can't forget Jerry for getting gaskets to me and keeping track of ones I was missing....thanks Jerry!

[XfireZ51]

Lee,

=D>:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum:icon_thum

[Polo-1]

Polo-1, 380ci is at the same price than a 368 ?
If i'm wright ,on a 368 engine only change liners and pistons from stock, but on a 380 ci need liners, pistons and a new crankshaft and maybe conecting rods.

You can make up to 411 ci out of the stock crank and stock rods. For most it will be 377 to 382 ci. The cost is $350 more then a 368. The added torque from the longer stroke and getting you closer to a big inch LT5 on the cheap.
After doing this package (380ci ) I would recommend a longer then stock rod ( 5.850 or 6.00 ). The stock rod is ok it will not break, just a little on the short side (5.74).

[Blue Flame Restorations]

114 intake, 108 Exhaust cam timing

Dominic did a chip for me so the car is more drivable....but it was a generic....need to tune it on a dyno and make some corrections. Car is running good oil pressure is great, running cool, no issues so far.

Big thanks to Pete, Bob, and Dominic for their advice during the build


Can't forget Jerry for getting gaskets to me and keeping track of ones I was missing....thanks Jerry!


AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul Workman]

Wooow Pete, you have a very big intake cam, this will do a rough idle and high speed idling?

Lee...like Brett said! CongratZ!!

Toni,

With regard to Pete's idle with those cams, I just happen to have a video of his car idling. (I'm not sure if Pete has ever seen this video!) That night Pete rode shotgun with his computer in his lap to do some data logging while I drove the car. I can testify that if it was short of low/mid range torque, I wasn't aware of it. As for WOT? That car is amazing!

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Vettes/th_10-22-10015.jpg (http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x220/6PPC_bucket/Vettes/?action=view&current=10-22-10015.mp4)
Pete's car idling. (click on the picture to see the video)

The rattle you hear at the end is not the motor, but rather the ZF trans. It seems that even a slight roughness of the idle will cause the ZF to rattle. (If I recall correctly, Pete's flywheel at that time was a single mass Doug Rippie cast iron unit at ≈ 8kg (it now has a Ram dual disc converson clutch in it)

Oh, your English is just fine!

P.

[Pete]

Wooow Pete, you have a very big intake cam, this will do a rough idle and high speed idling?

Your relative little exhaust cam I think is because you don't loose too much low end torque and car driveability, large exhaust duration will probably cause a decrease in power on a stock 350.

Yes, same (Prim, Sec) intake lobe profile shape is the best design and give more power, diferent profile cause a different (Prim, Sec) air speed flow filling the cylinders so can cause turbulent air flow in the inlet runner when Plenum and IH are Siamese .

As I will assemble stock cams regrinds or not, I only do siamesed runner on the plenum, the IH and Head are no siamesed only porting to 36'5 mm to keep independent air volume storage and air speed. Siamesed inlet plenum it's a must because total inlet length measures about 14 in. from plenum to valve seat, too long and the plenum inlet runner have a bad 90 degree curve, I smooth the short corner ( make the radius bigger ) as much as possible of the 90 deg. curve of the plenum port to minimize the air flow loose.

To get a higher lift the lobe base circle had to be regrind (decrease in base diameter) keeping the same lobe nose. The primary lobe has a big lobe acceleration rate and at the secondary the acceleration rate is less. If regrinds both base circles to get .425 lift (prim, Sec) the acceleration rate on primary will be too high so will need bigger valve spring to control floating valve problem. The solution to decrease the acceleration rate is increase duration @ .050 but the primary lobe does not allow do this, needs to be reground and then regrind. .415 lift may be are the maximum lift primary lobe admit to keep the floating problem under control. If regrind the base circle to get a .415 lift i think the maximum resulting duration will be about .222. on a primary lobe. Doing a cycle graph will tell me the max duration allowed when regrind to .415 lift.

As I can see your inlet cams are not the stock regrinds, may be are a SGC stage III ?

And your exhaust cams I doubt if are stock regrinds or SGC stage I ?

As the inlet and exhaust cams are different, not a single cam engine, you can modify the Lobe Centerline Angles (LCA) so the amount of overlap. The more overlap (tight LCA) an engine has, the greater tendency it has to run badly at low rpm, low vacuum and bad idling but good cylinder filling so more power.

Which are the timing numbers of your cams, LCA or Overlap and Intake Open Degree from TDC. ?

Pete I know my English is not very good, if you don’t understand what I said please let me know and I will explain on a different way.

Thanks very much
Toni

My intakes are SGC stage III my exhaust is my own regrind master.
My Z does have a nice cammy idle like an old big block but drives like a stocker in traffic and pulls away nice from a stop,i always offer people to drive it.

Reason for small exhaust cam is, i have tested big exhaust cams before and after on big & small cube LT5's same results more low end power no sacrifice on peak power they tune drive drive much better.
All of our fastest 10 sec Z's have .224 exhaust cams in them.


Timing you're safe with 114-108.

Pete

Your english is just fine.

[Toni94ZR1]

Lee...like Brett said! CongratZ!!

Toni,

With regard to Pete's idle with those cams, I just happen to have a video of his car idling. (I'm not sure if Pete has ever seen this video!) That night Pete rode shotgun with his computer in his lap to do some data logging while I drove the car. I can testify that if it was short of low/mid range torque, I wasn't aware of it. As for WOT? That car is amazing!


Pete's car idling. (click on the picture to see the video)

The rattle you hear at the end is not the motor, but rather the ZF trans. It seems that even a slight roughness of the idle will cause the ZF to rattle. (If I recall correctly, Pete's flywheel at that time was a single mass Doug Rippie cast iron unit at ≈ 8kg (it now has a Ram dual disc converson clutch in it)

Oh, your English is just fine!

P.

Thanks Paul, I'm happy you understand what I write. I will keep on studying english.

Great video, Wow sounds amazing ! No rough and high speed idling, I love this sound, now I can see regrinding cams it's a must when do full porting to get the maximum of a 350 stock bottom at an economic price $$$$.

SGC stage III inlet cams and regrind exhaust cams, as Pete have, will be the best but may be are more expensive.

My brother Z have a Fidanza flywheel , not a stock dual mass, and the ZF trans do the same sound. Maybe Bill Bodreau (zfdoc.com) knows how to minimize or eliminate this rattle when a single mass is installed.
Toni.

[Toni94ZR1]

My intakes are SGC stage III my exhaust is my own regrind master.
My Z does have a nice cammy idle like an old big block but drives like a stocker in traffic and pulls away nice from a stop,i always offer people to drive it.

Reason for small exhaust cam is, i have tested big exhaust cams before and after on big & small cube LT5's same results more low end power no sacrifice on peak power they tune drive drive much better.
All of our fastest 10 sec Z's have .224 exhaust cams in them.


Timing you're safe with 114-108.

Pete

Your english is just fine.

Thanks Pete, I'm happy you understand what I write. I will keep on studying english.

SGC stage III inlet cams and regrind exhaust cams as you have how much will cost?
And will be a must siamesed IH to get the best of this cams, plenum is already siamesed and IH and head ported to 36'5.
Toni.

[Toni94ZR1]

You can make up to 411 ci out of the stock crank and stock rods. For most it will be 377 to 382 ci. The cost is $350 more then a 368. The added torque from the longer stroke and getting you closer to a big inch LT5 on the cheap.
After doing this package (380ci ) I would recommend a longer then stock rod ( 5.850 or 6.00 ). The stock rod is ok it will not break, just a little on the short side (5.74).

Yes Polo-1, chevy type 6.00 in rod better, less bore side loading.

I did different stroke combinations based on stock crank.

PDF: LT5 stroke pdf document

Knowing desired rod length and bore I found the piston compression height (CH) and displacement.

6 in. rod need a 1,18 CH piston, this is easy to get so a 6 in. rod are better and less side loading, CP Pistons have this 1,18 CH pistons as a standard product on different bore size and only need little modifications on desired dish and valve relieve machining.

5,85 in. rod need a 1,33 CH piston, maybe less options on the market.

To get a 411 ci on stock crank you need a 4,226 in. bore, this engine allow this big bore ? ,liner’s wall will be like a smoking paper.

Doing a stroke engine with stock crank, bigger bore, will need block bottom liner support machining to fit bigger liners, isn’t it?

382 ci engine need 4,075 bore, isn't it ?

Toni

[tpepmeie]

Toni,
Since you quoted my engine in your sheet, I am actually running 1.035" compression height. The piston is slightly out of the bore (0.010) at TDC.

P.S. You think Pete's idle is cammy. I'll try to post a vid of the 427. Sorry I missed BG this year, guys. Issues. :)

[tpepmeie]

Forgot to mention, at much less than 1.05 CH it becomes hard to get enough dish depth to run reasonable compression. My combustion chambers are opened a lot (+9cc), so that made it possible for me to run 12:1.

[Polo-1]

Yes Polo-1, chevy type 6.00 in rod better, less bore side loading.

I did different stroke combinations based on stock crank.

To get a 411 ci on stock crank you need a 4,226 in. bore, this engine allow this big bore ? ,liner’s wall will be like a smoking paper.

AES BIG BORE 4.165 $$$

Doing a stroke engine with stock crank, bigger bore, will need block bottom liner support machining to fit bigger liners, isn’t it?

LA Sleeve drop in up to 382ci.

382 ci engine need 4,075 bore, isn't it ? LA sleeve 4.010

Toni


Stock crank is offset ground. you end up with a small chevy rod journal 2.00
The stock stroke is 3.66 when ground it ends up at 3.75. It can be pushed out to 3.80 on smaller Honda 1.890 journal. I have not done this yet. Crank guy said lot's of meat in the LT5 crank to cut. The BIG Bore is from AES 4.165
The cheap stuff is to keep it down to 377-382ci mostly off the shelve stuff.

[Toni94ZR1]

Toni,
Since you quoted my engine in your sheet, I am actually running 1.035" compression height. The piston is slightly out of the bore (0.010) at TDC.

P.S. You think Pete's idle is cammy. I'll try to post a vid of the 427. Sorry I missed BG this year, guys. Issues. :)

Hi Tood, I read your great article about The Ultimate LT5 several times, this is a 4 pages article that have more technical information about LT5 than any other LT5 literature.

What I like in your article are that you said the reason you choose every internal part of the engine and every modification done, the conclusions about the engine running test are also very interesting.

1.035" CH pistons and 0.010 out of bore was the only information missing in your great article :)

I thought would be a cammy engine but I can see, in Paul video, it sounds like my brother stock LT5.

Yes please I'll be waiting your 427 vid =D>

Toni

[XfireZ51]

Somebody show Tony a vid of Bob G's 427. Maybe where he runs 135mph 1/4mile.

[Toni94ZR1]

Stock crank is offset ground. you end up with a small chevy rod journal 2.00
The stock stroke is 3.66 when ground it ends up at 3.75. It can be pushed out to 3.80 on smaller Honda 1.890 journal. I have not done this yet. Crank guy said lot's of meat in the LT5 crank to cut. The BIG Bore is from AES 4.165
The cheap stuff is to keep it down to 377-382ci mostly off the shelve stuff.

OOOOOOh men this is the secret !!!!! an offset 2” rod journal .:-D

Interesting to know if a stock crank have a rod journal damage can be offset regrind to 2" and go to 2" journal chevy rod.

The BIG Bore from AES 4.165 only for BIG POCKETS $$$$$$$$$$

"It can be pushed out to 3.80 on smaller Honda 1.890 journal "
This engine is international !!!, England (Lotus) design, Usa (GM) paid $$, France (Carcassone) presentation, Japan (Honda) Internal powered, and porting and tuned by enthusiasts all over the world. And only 6.939 where made :cheers:

I will post a revised LT5 stroke PDF

Toni

[XfireZ51]

Tony,

Here. Red 427 last October.

http://vid187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/CCorvetteChallenge2011/th_MarcH11.jpg (http://s187.photobucket.com/albums/x198/Z51Xfire/CCorvetteChallenge2011/?action=view&current=MarcH11.mp4)

[Polo-1]

[QUOTE=Toni94ZR1;143283]OOOOOOh men this is the secret !!!!! an offset 2” rod journal .:-D

King bearing makes the 1 piece conversion bearings 2.100 to 2.000 No Spacer needed!!

[Pete]

What's wrong with 401ci's for $10k completly done short block.

Closed deck,new pistons,new rods.crank offset to 3.75,bore 4.125 and can use stock head gaskets.

If you go with bigger bore where do you get head gaskets?

Pete

[Polo-1]

you go with MLS gaskets and tell them the bore size you need.

[Pete]

you go with MLS gaskets and tell them the bore size you need.


Ok,i would think they are a bit pricey,but as long as we have something.

Heck then we can make a 454ci :)

Pete

[Polo-1]

3.750 x 4.390 :censored: 454

I don't think the block will go that far out:p

Daryll went with the MLS gaskets on the 380. I think they were $350 but reusable.

[Pete]

3.750 x 4.390 :censored: 454

I don't think the block will go that far out:p

Daryll went with the MLS gaskets on the 380. I think they were $350 but reusable.


4.125 X 4.175
and lets just call it a 454 close enough:)

[LGAFF]

Car has been running great. 2 issues.....leak at the front of the motor, not the pan. Thought it was the oil filter housing, but starting to wonder if its the front crank seal. I am seeing oil dripping from the trans inspection cover also.....

Thought it was solved yesterday as I drove it with no leaks. Today I ran the car up to 5K....and leaks...starting to think its the front/rear seals.

Any thoughts?

Leaks are wet spots....no large puddles, etc.

Happened too many times to be residual.....

Everything is new and rear seal torqued to spec

[Pete]

Check oil pressure and or try to relief motor of pressure maybe put in a catch can, filters on your cam covers.
Make sure your PCV valves are working.
Just some thoughts
Pete

[LGAFF]

Oil pressure at start up is 70lbs.....at warm idle is about 25-30

[XfireZ51]

Lee,

Agree w Pete. Sounds similar to my issue after motor was first put together. Crankcase may be pressurizing at 5k+. What did you use for vent material? Any oil puddling in cam cover bolt boss especially next to vent tube?

[LGAFF]

I used PCV material....the white fluffly stuff...

[LGAFF]

If it was crankcase pressure, wouldn't it be pushing out the dipstick?

[Paul Workman]

If it was crankcase pressure, wouldn't it be pushing out the dipstick?

I don't think you could entirely rule out crankcase pressure, based on the dipstick. The rings are not fully seated yet, and will need some miles on them before they do. Just about every motor I've built had some seapage here and there, but usually stopped after some breakin time. So, I hafta think, with all "the right stuff" you put in there, it has to be a matter of breaking in and some time for seals to ... well ... seal! (I'm just sayin.)

Besides....This is a British motor. Oil leak?? What else would you expect?? ;)

Sure wish ya coulda made it to the Pizza GTG. It was a good time, as usual, and the Hillbilly pizza was terrific as usual!

You other casual readers never heard of Hillbilly pizza??? Oh! You don't know what your missing! Hafta come to Bob's place for one of the FBI gatherings and find out! :dancing

P.

[XfireZ51]

If it was crankcase pressure, wouldn't it be pushing out the dipstick?

Mine did not. But the oil leak followed a similar pattern as yours. Appeared to come from front. I re-did the oil cooler lines, checked the oil sending unit under the filter housing. Re-sealed the left front corner oil pan bolt, finally using a Doti washer. Sometimes I would take car out and drive it, then park for days and no leak. But when I'd get on it, that's when I would smell a whiff of burnt oil coming into the car. Then I had a small pool of oil by the cam cover bolt right next to the passenger side vent tube. I had used the Scotch Brite for the vent. Finally removed cam cover and replaced w Haibeck's foam material.
No more leaks. No burnt oil smell. That was my experience.
The pressure was causing multiple areas to leak.

[LGAFF]

anyone vent to the exhaust like drag cars

[LGAFF]

A few other thoughts...

Creating a vent out of the oil cap, with a breather

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Mine did not. But the oil leak followed a similar pattern as yours. Appeared to come from front. I re-did the oil cooler lines, checked the oil sending unit under the filter housing. Re-sealed the left front corner oil pan bolt, finally using a Doti washer. Sometimes I would take car out and drive it, then park for days and no leak. But when I'd get on it, that's when I would smell a whiff of burnt oil coming into the car. Then I had a small pool of oil by the cam cover bolt right next to the passenger side vent tube. I had used the Scotch Brite for the vent. Finally removed cam cover and replaced w Haibeck's foam material.
No more leaks. No burnt oil smell. That was my experience.
The pressure was causing multiple areas to leak.


I also have some very small puddling in the cam bolt recess next to the vent tube. Not bad, but I have to wipe it clean every so often. I run up past 5k every time I drive it. Not a time I drive it that I don't hit 7k at least once, just for good measure.

[XfireZ51]

A few other thoughts...

Creating a vent out of the oil cap, with a breather

Bob G has one.

[XfireZ51]

I also have some very small puddling in the cam bolt recess next to the vent tube. Not bad, but I have to wipe it clean every so often. I run up past 5k every time I drive it. Not a time I drive it that I don't hit 7k at least once, just for good measure.

Brett,

Yep that's where mine was which is why I suspected the vent tube material. Replaced it with the foam insert, no more leaks or puddling. BTW, the drivers side still has the Scotch Brite. It was just on the passenger side. Maybe that was enough to relieve the pressure.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Brett,

Yep that's where mine was which is why I suspected the vent tube material. Replaced it with the foam insert, no more leaks or puddling. BTW, the drivers side still has the Scotch Brite. It was just on the passenger side. Maybe that was enough to relieve the pressure.


I'll have to try the foam.

Thanks, Dom

[XfireZ51]

I'll have to try the foam.

Thanks, Dom

Marc sells it for $15 for two squares that fit into the cam cover.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Marc sells it for $15 for two squares that fit into the cam cover.


Do you have to remove the cam cover to install it? It seems like I remember seeing it?????

[Daniel_Mc]

Do you have to remove the cam cover to install it? It seems like I remember seeing it?????

Yep

[LGAFF]

The small drip I am getting is jet black, I thought it was oil with clutch dust in it....but when I smell it...no smell...I would think there would be a faint gas smell or something. Checked the master for the clutch and its nearly out of fluid.

Wonder if its the slave I put in the car 2 years ago....and maybe not oil?

Any way to check

[XfireZ51]

Lee,

Have you checked the carpetby drivers side firewall?

[LGAFF]

the master is new....the slave was leaking some when I put it back in...but I though that was because it was extended....maybe its bad.

[XfireZ51]

the master is new....the slave was leaking some when I put it back in...but I though that was because it was extended....maybe its bad.


Have you checked to see if seal is in backwards? =Jeff= has a source for
OEM type slaves. I have the cast Walker slave and so far its working well.

[LGAFF]

Well if you share the good, you have to share the bad, its part of the experience of building a motor. At Bloomington, Pete and Marc saw the car. I have a ticking noise, which I dismissed as a fuel injector as the prior motor had the same ticking.

Marc and Pete thought it might be 1)failing lifter 2)not enough pre-load. Keep in mind they only had sound to judge....they did not inspect the car.

My finding is that when the stethoscope is placed against the cam cover, no ticking, against the cam bolt it there is a quiet ticking but not to the degree of the sound you hear outside the car.

With the stethoscope on the header the ticking can be heard. It is more pronounced on 1 and three tube and can be heard when stuck in the area where the primaries meet the collector. The sound is only on the D/S.

*There are new Sealed Power made in the USA lifters
*The lifters actually supplied too much load prior to checking with regrinds
*I have watson headers w/emissions tubes
*All header bolts are tight, no signs of leaks
*Oil level is correct
*Cold startup pressure is 75 PSI
*Warmed up pressure is 30-35PSI at lopey idle
*O2 is tight.
*Removing serp belt did not fix the issue, so not an accessory

I have read other threads on LS motors and DOHC engines and they experience what is referred to as header tick.

Let me know your thoughts...

Next step plan is to remove the header and look for issues, holes, etc.

[XfireZ51]

Well if you share the good, you have to share the bad, its part of the experience of building a motor. At Bloomington, Pete and Marc saw the car. I have a ticking noise, which I dismissed as a fuel injector as the prior motor had the same ticking.

Marc and Pete thought it might be 1)failing lifter 2)not enough pre-load. Keep in mind they only had sound to judge....they did not inspect the car.

My finding is that when the stethoscope is placed against the cam cover, no ticking, against the cam bolt it there is a quiet ticking but not to the degree of the sound you hear outside the car.

With the stethoscope on the header the ticking can be heard. It is more pronounced on 1 and three tube and can be heard when stuck in the area where the primaries meet the collector. The sound is only on the D/S.

*There are new Sealed Power made in the USA lifters
*The lifters actually supplied too much load prior to checking with regrinds
*I have watson headers w/emissions tubes
*All header bolts are tight, no signs of leaks
*Oil level is correct
*Cold startup pressure is 75 PSI
*Warmed up pressure is 30-35PSI at lopey idle
*O2 is tight.
*Removing serp belt did not fix the issue, so not an accessory

I have read other threads on LS motors and DOHC engines and they experience what is referred to as header tick.

Let me know your thoughts...

Next step plan is to remove the header and look for issues, holes, etc.

Lee,

I thought it sounded like an exhaust leak when I heard it. Motor was running well. Could explain the O2 differential.

[LGAFF]

I am hoping, I would think I would hear more through the cam cover if it were a lifter.

[mike100]

use a small diameter vacuum tube rather than the stethoscope to find exh. gas leaks. stick one end in your ear and run the other open end along the header flange and all pipe weld joints.

as an example of how easily you can hear the smallest airflow, blow across the tube to test it out. You will find a small leak this way.

[LGAFF]

This is the same sound I have

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrNfAOiP85E

[mike100]

This is the same sound I have

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrNfAOiP85E

Well then... try lugging it up a hill in 3rd gear and tell us if it gets louder. If it makes the same noise coasting downhill as it does under load, it might be mechanical.

exhaust leaks will get louder after some time also eventually making it too easy to not find.

[LGAFF]

Pulled the header off, is this a big enough hole to cause a tick, its in the air tube

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN4663.jpg

[XfireZ51]

Pulled the header off, is this a big enough hole to cause a tick, its in the air tube

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/DSCN4663.jpg

No not big enough. You need to make it bigger!

[-=Jeff=-]

yes it could make a tick, I had a hole like that on an older Camaro once.. it had a tick too

[LGAFF]

Thanks Jeff..off to the welders..

[LGAFF]

ran the egnine with no header, no ticking.....might be masked by exhaust

Vid below; for some reason no flamage on the photobucket version....you can see it on my camera

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/th_DSCN4664.jpg (http://s134.photobucket.com/albums/q115/lgaff/?action=view&current=DSCN4664.mp4)

[mike100]

^^^ haha..that's crazy. anyways, if you can see the hole, it will definitely tick. it doesn't take much.

[tomtom72]

Good deal Lee! I'll bet that's the tick. :thumbsup:

[LGAFF]

Still have a tick, not sure what the issue is at this point.

[XfireZ51]

Got a stethoscope ?

[LGAFF]

yes....checked the DS cam cover has more lifter noise than the PS cam cover but nothing on par with the tick I hear. Will check more today....

LAstI check with the Tech 1 no knock retard, so unlikely a rod or crank bearing


PS: Dom was wondering if you might be able to burn a chip for the 92? Have the new chip

[XfireZ51]

yes....checked the DS cam cover has more lifter noise than the PS cam cover but nothing on par with the tick I hear. Will check more today....

LAstI check with the Tech 1 no knock retard, so unlikely a rod or crank bearing


PS: Dom was wondering if you might be able to burn a chip for the 92? Have the new chip

Lee,

We can use the last calibration I have before doing the heads and cam on this motor. Our motors were pretty close at that point in terms of mods. Having fixed your knock retard issue, maybe now you can take advantage of the changes. Give me a shout when you want to get that.

[LGAFF]

Took the car out, ran the hell out of it.....5-6 7500rpm runs. no knock counts at all. Then took it up to 7500 and held it 5-6 seconds.....then I came up to a stop sign..no tick. Cruised on the highway back to town, pulled in a parking lot, faint tick. Then parked it, came out and tick was noticeable.....then drive it an tick went away again.

Pretty sure this is an exhaust issue....maybe there is a reason I got the headers for $500.00

Lets hope thats it for the drama, car feels strong; we'll soon see if the seat of pants dyno is accurate....

[Paul Workman]

use a small diameter vacuum tube rather than the stethoscope to find exh. gas leaks. stick one end in your ear and run the other open end along the header flange and all pipe weld joints.

as an example of how easily you can hear the smallest airflow, blow across the tube to test it out. You will find a small leak this way.

OPen tube...Great tip! Especially for finding an exhaust leak.


P.

[LGAFF]

drove the car 320 miles the last 2 days, runs great....biggest issue is that these tires will never hook; gun it from a roll and the car kicks alittle sideways and burns them up....hope the dyno numbers match the seat of pants o meter.


BLMs at cruise are 116 and 128 at WOT

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Lee, I have the same issue with my defective rear tires. After Pete's work, I just can't keep them from spinning every single time I drive it!!!!!!

:dancing

[XfireZ51]

Lee, I have the same issue with my defective rear tires. After Pete's work, I just can't keep them from spinning every single time I drive it!!!!!!

:dancing

Brett,

It sounds like your really complaining about all that power. Pull a couple of
plug wires! ;)

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Brett,

It sounds like your really complaining about all that power. Pull a couple of
plug wires! ;)

It's just aweful!!!;) Makes me want more cubes.....

[HAWAIIZR-1]

drove the car 320 miles the last 2 days, runs great....biggest issue is that these tires will never hook; gun it from a roll and the car kicks alittle sideways and burns them up....hope the dyno numbers match the seat of pants o meter.


BLMs at cruise are 116 and 128 at WOT

CONGRATS Lee! It sounds great and I know what you mean with new found power. I'm heading for Nitto NT05Rs to see how they hook up.

[XfireZ51]

Lee,

Sounds like we need to add fuel at idle and lean out cruise. BLMs will always show 128 at WOT because you are now in Open Loop. WB O2 is only way of telling what AFR is at that point.

[-=Jeff=-]

drove the car 320 miles the last 2 days, runs great....biggest issue is that these tires will never hook; gun it from a roll and the car kicks alittle sideways and burns them up....hope the dyno numbers match the seat of pants o meter.


BLMs at cruise are 116 and 128 at WOT

Isn't 116 a bit on the fat side for cruise?

I thought that you need to remove fuel to get to 128.. I always forget, since I have a program I created that does it automatically I never remember the actual formula without looking at my code... LOL

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Lee,

Sounds like we need to add fuel at idle and lean out cruise. BLMs will always show 128 at WOT because you are now in Open Loop. WB O2 is only way of telling what AFR is at that point.

Dom,
What do you recommend for someone wanting to add WB O2 to their car and do you need to install dual bungs and have dual O2 sensors?
Thanks,
Craig

[-=Jeff=-]

Dom,
What do you recommend for someone wanting to add WB O2 to their car and do you need to install dual bungs and have dual O2 sensors?
Thanks,
Craig

for an accurate reading, before the Cats.. if you can I feel 2 are better then one..

[HAWAIIZR-1]

for an accurate reading, before the Cats.. if you can I feel 2 are better then one..

Thanks Jeff. I thought so and a friend said only 1 side really needed but it seemed you need two because even now with tuning it was found I have a problem on the right side with leak causing lean conditions. When I put my headers back in and install X pipe etc. I thought a good time to have the shop put bungs in even if I plug them for now, but could use when doing the dyno tune with WB O2s. I found one the Innovate system with dual O2s, but very pricey.

[LGAFF]

out in the country/corn fields this morning on the way to work.....stopped revd it to 3K dropped the clutch and the car did a water box style burnout without using the brake, just sat and smoke the tires....lovin the car...

Every Z needs porting and cams...

[XfireZ51]

Dom,
What do you recommend for someone wanting to add WB O2 to their car and do you need to install dual bungs and have dual O2 sensors?
Thanks,
Craig

Well the O2 should be as close to the exhaust ports as possible but in the collector not an individual primary tube. Its nice to have 2 WBs, one for each bank, altho we currently have no way of "trimming" fuel for the individual bank. With 2 WBs you basically take the middle of the road route just like you do with part throttle. The final fueling becomes a compromise. However, the disparity in the L/R banks becomes less pronounced at WOT than it is at idle. That's why choosing something like 12.7-12.8 is a safe choice and why you want your cruising BLMs to be a bit on the rich side to begin with, ie 124 or so.
I suspect the split BLM issue is due to the difference in distance fuel needs to travel between left and right rails. Typically we see D/S bank as leaner than P/S. I would plug the fuel line directly to the back of each fuel rail and then to the regulator. When i had my Xfire, one of the mods was to re-route the fuel from "in-series" to parallel plumbing for each TB. I once measured a .5psi drop in fuel pressure between the TBs with the fuel line in series. That FP drop was enough to make Chevrolet specify different size injectors for front and rear TBs. The front TB used a 62# @10.5psi while the rear used a 65#@10.5psi to make up for the differential FP. However, parallel plumbing made the engine run sooo much smoother.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well the O2 should be as close to the exhaust ports as possible but in the collector not an individual primary tube. Its nice to have 2 WBs, one for each bank, altho we currently have no way of "trimming" fuel for the individual bank. With 2 WBs you basically take the middle of the road route just like you do with part throttle. The final fueling becomes a compromise. However, the disparity in the L/R banks becomes less pronounced at WOT than it is at idle. That's why choosing something like 12.7-12.8 is a safe choice and why you want your cruising BLMs to be a bit on the rich side to begin with, ie 124 or so.
I suspect the split BLM issue is due to the difference in distance fuel needs to travel between left and right rails. Typically we see D/S bank as leaner than P/S. I would plug the fuel line directly to the back of each fuel rail and then to the regulator. When i had my Xfire, one of the mods was to re-route the fuel from "in-series" to parallel plumbing for each TB. I once measured a .5psi drop in fuel pressure between the TBs with the fuel line in series. That FP drop was enough to make Chevrolet specify different size injectors for front and rear TBs. The front TB used a 62# @10.5psi while the rear used a 65#@10.5psi to make up for the differential FP. However, parallel plumbing made the engine run sooo much smoother.

Dom,

Thanks for all the info and explanation. I wish I could have had those bungs put in the header collector before ceramic coating; how about in the pipes right after the collector since I'm not running any cats? I don't mind the shop punching holes in those pipes and welding in bungs. I'll measure to see how far away from the stock O2 sensor location. :handshak:
Craig

[HAWAIIZR-1]

out in the country/corn fields this morning on the way to work.....stopped revd it to 3K dropped the clutch and the car did a water box style burnout without using the brake, just sat and smoke the tires....lovin the car...

Every Z needs porting and cams... I totally agree, now you need tires like me. I'm going with Nitto NT05Rs in the rear; I can't get any traction now.

[LGAFF]

could the variance also be slight differences in open and closing of cams vs injector pulse????

[XfireZ51]

Dom,

Thanks for all the info and explanation. I wish I could have had those bungs put in the header collector before ceramic coating; how about in the pipes right after the collector since I'm not running any cats? I don't mind the shop punching holes in those pipes and welding in bungs. I'll measure to see how far away from the stock O2 sensor location. :handshak:
Craig


Craig, you could do that. Not optimum BUT after all we measure AFR at the tailpipe on the dyno, so it won't be too far off.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

out in the country/corn fields this morning on the way to work.....stopped revd it to 3K dropped the clutch and the car did a water box style burnout without using the brake, just sat and smoke the tires....lovin the car...

Every Z needs porting and cams...

Oh yeahhhhhhhhh.................

[XfireZ51]

could the variance also be slight differences in open and closing of cams vs injector pulse????

Unlikely this would create a consistent L/R, leaner/richer situation. BTW, the L98s and LT motors had same split blm issue. Fuel comes from one side and crosses over to the other.

[XfireZ51]

out in the country/corn fields this morning on the way to work.....stopped revd it to 3K dropped the clutch and the car did a water box style burnout without using the brake, just sat and smoke the tires....lovin the car...

Every Z needs porting and cams...


Lee,

You're just having too much gdamn fun! =D>;)

[Ccmano]

Really a shame most of the photos of this great old thread have been lost. Especially since I might be going down this road shortly. Good info here especially from the perspective of a novice LT5 builder. Lee any chance some of these photos could be resurrected?
H
:cheers:

[WVZR-1]

I just went through the first several pages of this thread and there wasn't a snapshot that wasn't available. I saw nothing that had been 'blitzed'. I've been using the Chrome extension by Jesse for quite a long while and I actually thought I was a little 'late to the party'. His most recent update to the extension looks to be early Jan but I'm very sure I was using his or another long before that.

I've had no PB locks for I'd guess 10 - 12 weeks maybe more. It's been a long time.

I only came to the thread because I saw a 'recent' post!!

[WVZR-1]

See post #21, 22, 23, 225, 226

I have snapshots in 'every one'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They 'load' immediately.

G-Sting mentioned the extensions in this post and I had been using either/or for quite some time. There had been some glitches earlier but I've seen none since 1st of year.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=273198&postcount=137

[A1990]

I see them all too from my Firefox browser with the photobucket fix installed


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[WVZR-1]

Ccmano is quoted in your post 137 (single post) and yet he is the one that cannot see all the photos in this thread as well as myself. Ccmano must not have the "Photobucket fix" :cheers:

I should have used post #134 but I knew G-Sting had mentioned it so I just selected the #137 as a quick grab. I'm not using the Chrome extension that is mentioned in #134.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=273150&postcount=134

In that thread I also pointed out where to go for the extensions.

I did have some issues actually trying to 'save an image' yesterday from a thread that was 5+ years old from a thread. I could see it in the thread but I struggled with the 'save as'. I'm generally not concerned with 'grabbing' snapshots.

I pay no attention to PB but I did notice they've some newer policies and pricing structures sorting out the things that I believe they based their 'lock' on. I sorta understood where they were coming from.

[Ccmano]

Thanks guys! I thought I already loaded the fix. But apparently not. Just loaded it and works well.=D>


Well, I take some of that back, some photos are loading and some are not... strange.
H
:cheers:

[WVZR-1]

You guys are using an older or outdated 'extension'. Shop the extension store in whatever browser and look for an offering from Jesse!!

What post # or #'s in particular? Everyone you mentioned earlier worked when I looked. The next time you see the 'lock' leave your browser there without refreshing. An earlier extension I used would load eventually (a few seconds) but with the latest updated one by Jesse I've nothing fail to load immediately.

I don't use Chrome but a 'variant' - Vivaldi which is done by the old original Opera Browser engineer & team.

[Ccmano]

I seem to be SOL. I normally use Safari on my IPad. No help there. Even when I change over to Chrome and load the Jan 12 2018 fix... no change on Chrome.
H
:cheers:

[Ccmano]

Very strange, I see them now too. On Safari...lol
H

[LGAFF]

I will start adding these as attachements if people are interested

[Hammer]

Loving this blog :) I also recommend related forums like this info (http://xgs.wxwmx.com/home.php?mod=space&uid=676750), these guys (http://www.ccrzzw.com/home.php?mod=space&uid=108755) and this website (https://marketinginc.com/forums/member.php?159697-RuudEthist), not to mention this resource (http://www.iranmemar.com/member.php?105063-FrankJScott) and this site (http://lt.hajhkj.cn/home.php?mod=space&uid=165883) here.

WTF is this guy doing on here? :proud: