Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

dnobull · 02-20-2017

I have a Freon leak and if I could get enough R12 at a reasonable price this would not be an issue. The problem is that I have heard that If you convert to 134 with out replacing all the o-rings, Hoses and Condenser that the higher pressures and corrosives of 134 will eventually lead to more leaks.

I would be willing to pay up to $40 per lb for R12 but much higher says that 134 makes sense

What do you guys know that I have to learn before repairing this leak

mgbrv8 · 02-21-2017

If you go to the Main registry webpage and click the members only section After signing in and then click newsletter. In issue 38 and 37 I wrote in-depth articles about a R134 conversion and rebuilding your entire air-conditioning system

I hope it helps I can also provide a link with all the photos
David Hetrick

GOLDCYLON · 02-21-2017

I have found that 134A is not as cooler as R12. I have done a few conversions on R12 systems in the past on other vehicles and this has always been true. Newer cars seem to do well with it as they were designed for it. GC

mgbrv8 · 02-21-2017

Gold it's true a lot of conversions I've witnessed in the past didn't function very well after the conversion was finished. But after completely disassembling and cleaning the old mineral oil and debris out of the system that doesn't mix with the synthetic oil that r134 uses. And the following the procedure that I detailed in article 38 of the heart of the beast publication. I was pleasantly surprised by having a nice cold 36° at the Vents in 102 degrees Texas heat. It's absolutely critical that you don't have any mineral oil contaminants in your system otherwise you will not have a good thermal conductivity of heat through the system.

Here is a link of what i did its is towards the end of the series of pictures

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=8f46fa4533

Hope it helps I look forward to seeing how it all works out

Dave

Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry

dnobull · 02-21-2017

Thank you to each of the members who replied to my question regarding 134 vs R-12 Freon. The Articles from MGBRV8 were extremely helpful. The articles helped me do decide to purchase R-12 in a 30lb tank to service my system for the rest of it's life and keep it stock for possible certifications later on. Now the hunt for a good Air Conditioning shop in Kansas City.

mgbrv8 · 02-21-2017

Excellent! Please keep us posted

Dave

WARP TEN · 02-22-2017

As has been reported previously, GM had a TSB on converting the systems to the newer Freon and said that you did not have to rebuild the system. Just fully evacuate it and fill. There was no problem with seals; as I recall it just needed a different fill valve. Marc Haibeck has converted many systems without incident. I had my 93 system filled with 134A by him and it worked fine as long as I owned it. I presume it still is working. I would suggest a chat with Marc if you have any concerns. --Bob

GOLDCYLON · 02-22-2017

I would not use it unless you completely rebuild the system to adapt to the new 134A. A lot of folks have used the conversion fittings and the PAG oil kit and called it good until the system fails months later. And its not as cold.

A lot of derbies in the system and it requires a lot of cleaning and replacing of the receiver dryer at an minimum. Just has been my experience on several vehicles out here in AZ. If R12 was available that would be my only recommendation to go UNLESS you are replacing everything as stated above.

GC

Billy Mild · 02-23-2017

The issue you may run into is R134a does not cool as well as R12. A suggestion is to change the type of condensor you run on your car. This will help compensate for the differences in the gases. I forgot what each one is, but there are two styles of condnesors.

-=Jeff=- · 02-23-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Mild

The issue you may run into is R134a does not cool as well as R12. A suggestion is to change the type of condensor you run on your car. This will help compensate for the differences in the gases. I forgot what each one is, but there are two styles of condnesors.

Tube & FIN, found on R12 Cars

Parallel flow found on R134a cars

02-20-2017	#1
dnobull Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Raymore MO Posts: 43	Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 I have a Freon leak and if I could get enough R12 at a reasonable price this would not be an issue. The problem is that I have heard that If you convert to 134 with out replacing all the o-rings, Hoses and Condenser that the higher pressures and corrosives of 134 will eventually lead to more leaks. I would be willing to pay up to $40 per lb for R12 but much higher says that 134 makes sense What do you guys know that I have to learn before repairing this leak

02-21-2017	#2
mgbrv8 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 790	Re: Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 If you go to the Main registry webpage and click the members only section After signing in and then click newsletter. In issue 38 and 37 I wrote in-depth articles about a R134 conversion and rebuilding your entire air-conditioning system I hope it helps I can also provide a link with all the photos David Hetrick

02-21-2017	#3
GOLDCYLON Join Date: May 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 9,117	Re: Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 I have found that 134A is not as cooler as R12. I have done a few conversions on R12 systems in the past on other vehicles and this has always been true. Newer cars seem to do well with it as they were designed for it. GC __________________ GOLDCYLON - 91 ZR-1 #2014 GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's) GOLDCYLON - 11 CTS-V Arizona State Director 91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat 90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat 11 RED/GREY CTS-V

02-21-2017	#4
mgbrv8 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 790	Re: Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 Gold it's true a lot of conversions I've witnessed in the past didn't function very well after the conversion was finished. But after completely disassembling and cleaning the old mineral oil and debris out of the system that doesn't mix with the synthetic oil that r134 uses. And the following the procedure that I detailed in article 38 of the heart of the beast publication. I was pleasantly surprised by having a nice cold 36° at the Vents in 102 degrees Texas heat. It's absolutely critical that you don't have any mineral oil contaminants in your system otherwise you will not have a good thermal conductivity of heat through the system. Here is a link of what i did its is towards the end of the series of pictures https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=8f46fa4533 Hope it helps I look forward to seeing how it all works out Dave Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry Last edited by mgbrv8; 02-21-2017 at 06:29 PM.

02-21-2017	#5
dnobull Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Raymore MO Posts: 43	Re: Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 Thank you to each of the members who replied to my question regarding 134 vs R-12 Freon. The Articles from MGBRV8 were extremely helpful. The articles helped me do decide to purchase R-12 in a 30lb tank to service my system for the rest of it's life and keep it stock for possible certifications later on. Now the hunt for a good Air Conditioning shop in Kansas City.

02-22-2017	#7
WARP TEN Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lake Bluff, IL Posts: 2,141	Re: Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 As has been reported previously, GM had a TSB on converting the systems to the newer Freon and said that you did not have to rebuild the system. Just fully evacuate it and fill. There was no problem with seals; as I recall it just needed a different fill valve. Marc Haibeck has converted many systems without incident. I had my 93 system filled with 134A by him and it worked fine as long as I owned it. I presume it still is working. I would suggest a chat with Marc if you have any concerns. --Bob __________________ 2016 Long Beach Red Z06 #10281 "POPS Z" 1995 Polo Green #409 "WARP TEN"--Haibeck 350/510 package, 4.10s, Hurst, Stock Exhaust with QTP Cutouts --Sold but still running strong 1993 Quasar Blue #161 "HIL KING" --Sold but still running strong, now with more than 120,000 miles 1967 Marlboro Maroon/Saddle Corvette Coupe 300 hp/4-spd --Sold a long time ago ZR-1 Net Registry Founding Member #95 NCM Lifetime Member Favorite Quote--Attributed to Mickey Thompson: "Too Much Horsepower is Almost Enough"

02-23-2017	#9
Billy Mild Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 835	Re: Air Conditioning Pro's & Con's of Converting to 134 The issue you may run into is R134a does not cool as well as R12. A suggestion is to change the type of condensor you run on your car. This will help compensate for the differences in the gases. I forgot what each one is, but there are two styles of condnesors.