Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

Rusty · 07-16-2012

About 1.5 months ago I bought my first Corvette and really jumped in the deep end.. a '94 ZR1 with a good number of miles (~140,000 km) that, I suspect, hasn't been treated overly gently at its previous owners'. I found when driving it home after purchase (~200 km) that after running for a while and warming up, the car develops what feels like a miss. It kind of makes a stuttering/gurgling/popping noise, the car jerks around a bit, and it keeps going. No Service Engine Soon light comes on. It doesn't hesitate when accelerating and seems to idle well enough. We just put in new spark plugs, hoping for an cheap/easy fix, but that doesn't seem to have helped the problem much (if at all). I've probably gone through 2.5 tanks of premium fuel since purchase, so it doesn't seem likely to me that it's just some bad or old gas.

I've read a lot of posts on the forum about a similar sounding problem in 90-92's that are making me wonder if it could be the fuel injectors on my '94, but I'm not sure if there are other "typical" issues in a '94 that could be causing this? Any thoughts/suggestions/similar experiences are appreciated!

Kb7tif · 07-16-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

About 1.5 months ago I bought my first Corvette and really jumped in the deep end.. a '94 ZR1 with a good number of miles (~140,000 km) that, I suspect, hasn't been treated overly gently at its previous owners'. I found when driving it home after purchase (~200 km) that after running for a while and warming up, the car develops what feels like a miss. It kind of makes a stuttering/gurgling/popping noise, the car jerks around a bit, and it keeps going. No Service Engine Soon light comes on. It doesn't hesitate when accelerating and seems to idle well enough. We just put in new spark plugs, hoping for an cheap/easy fix, but that doesn't seem to have helped the problem much (if at all). I've probably gone through 2.5 tanks of premium fuel since purchase, so it doesn't seem likely to me that it's just some bad or old gas.

I've read a lot of posts on the forum about a similar sounding problem in 90-92's that are making me wonder if it could be the fuel injectors on my '94, but I'm not sure if there are other "typical" issues in a '94 that could be causing this? Any thoughts/suggestions/similar experiences are appreciated!

You cannot go wrong with new injectors, and plug wires. Myself id leave the coils alone.

XfireZ51 · 07-16-2012

Fuel pumps and filter(s)

scottfab · 07-16-2012

Just based on your description I'd start with
a common issue. It's the little hose running up to the
MAP sensor (at the read of the plenum). I can fill with oil.
That gurgling sound you describe sure sounds familiar to that.
If after clearing that next I'd check for any codes set.
Even if the SES (service engine soon) light is not on you may
get a leg up on things by looking there. Some codes if transient
don't set the SES light.
I assume you have a manual? If not we can help you along but
they are really invaluable.

If the stumbling kicks in when the ECM goes to "closed loop"
(warmed up) then there is more to do to isolate but let's see how the MAP hose check turns out.
Some things to tell us are:
1. Does it accelerate ok at WOT?
2. What's the fuel pressure?
3. Good solid spark on each cylinder when you pull each plug wire
out a few inches?
4. How do you feel about pulling the plenum if needed?

Rusty · 07-17-2012

Thanks for the suggestions! That gives me some suggestions to try out, which is great. Will hopefully get around to checking the hose to the map sensor this weekend and go from there. I'll post results as things go along, and may have more questions!

My shop manuals (purchased from eBay) just arrived on the weekend, so I can refer to those to help with these diagnostics and if anybody is able to point me towards a particularly helpful section/page #.

In response to scottfab's questions:
1. It accelerates well at WOT... doesn't seem to hesitate at all, and pulls... impressively, to say the least.
2. - 3. Will check the fuel pressure (and filter) and the spark on each cylinder on the weekend.
4. Personally, I'm not much of a mechanic (yet), but my Dad's been rebuilding his '86 with a new motor and many other TPIS things for the past few years, and he's helping me with the ZR1. So, between the two of us, pulling the plenum is just taking off a bunch of bolts. :-) Bring it on! I'll know more about ZR1 mechanics by the end of this, I'd imagine!

Thanks all for the ideas so far and I'll post more when I have some more information!

scottfab · 07-18-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

................. pulling the plenum is just taking off a bunch of bolts. :-) Bring it on! I'll know more about ZR1 mechanics by the end of this, I'd imagine!

Thanks all for the ideas so far and I'll post more when I have some more information!

A few bolts yah, mostly.
Here is a link to a lot of help. There is more than one site (including this forum) to find How-to write-ups.
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_howto.htm
It has a plenum pull section too.

Rusty · 07-18-2012

Thanks, scottfab. Looks like a great article and we'll definitely study it in detail before attempting the bolt removal (I jest and make light of what I fully expect to be pretty involved job... only joking, and I have great respect for those who have done this successfully and am appreciative of those who are willing to share the expertise they've gained).

With any luck it won't come to a plenum pull this time... would love to own the car for more than two months and go through more than 2 tanks of fuel before we have to do something like that!

mike100 · 07-18-2012

The previous owner was trying to avoid pulling the plenum too I suspect.

Just resign yourself to the project- every single one of these cars will need injectors as they just don't last- either from age or alcohol blended fuels. If it was me personally, I would just buy new ones and change them (based on experience), but there is a good diagnostic to meter out all 16 injectors without taking anything apart. It might take about an hour to do all that.

The last time I had to work on the car, it really only took about 35 minutes to remove the plenum.

scottfab · 07-18-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty

Thanks, scottfab. Looks like a great article and we'll definitely study it in detail before attempting the bolt removal (I jest and make light of what I fully expect to be pretty involved job... only joking, and I have great respect for those who have done this successfully and am appreciative of those who are willing to share the expertise they've gained).

With any luck it won't come to a plenum pull this time... would love to own the car for more than two months and go through more than 2 tanks of fuel before we have to do something like that!

It's actually pretty painless. However, there are a few things to be careful of. Personally I got tired of replacing the gaskets. I mean you can gingerly remove it a few times and reuse but...... if they get damaged there you go. A bit more $ gone. I eventually just cut some out of black rubber in 1hr. Works great and NEVER sticks

I reuse, reuse then reuse again.

Remember it's not if you have to get under there, It's when. Don't do it until you have new gaskets ready OR willing to cut some.

Rusty · 07-25-2012

Haven't yet had an opportunity to check the hose to the MAP, or much else, really (landscaping projects in the yard have been taking up my time), but I did find that the following codes come up:

DTC #21: Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Voltage High.
DTC #22: Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Voltage Low.
DTC #51: EEPROM Programming Error.
DTC #53: System Voltage Low.

Will hopefully have more time on the weekend to check things out.

07-16-2012	#1
Rusty Join Date: May 2012 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 25	Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) About 1.5 months ago I bought my first Corvette and really jumped in the deep end.. a '94 ZR1 with a good number of miles (~140,000 km) that, I suspect, hasn't been treated overly gently at its previous owners'. I found when driving it home after purchase (~200 km) that after running for a while and warming up, the car develops what feels like a miss. It kind of makes a stuttering/gurgling/popping noise, the car jerks around a bit, and it keeps going. No Service Engine Soon light comes on. It doesn't hesitate when accelerating and seems to idle well enough. We just put in new spark plugs, hoping for an cheap/easy fix, but that doesn't seem to have helped the problem much (if at all). I've probably gone through 2.5 tanks of premium fuel since purchase, so it doesn't seem likely to me that it's just some bad or old gas. I've read a lot of posts on the forum about a similar sounding problem in 90-92's that are making me wonder if it could be the fuel injectors on my '94, but I'm not sure if there are other "typical" issues in a '94 that could be causing this? Any thoughts/suggestions/similar experiences are appreciated!

07-16-2012	#3
XfireZ51 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chicagoland, IL Posts: 9,708	Re: Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) Fuel pumps and filter(s) __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Former Membership Chairman Former ZR-1 Registry - BOD 1972 Corvette 4speed base Coupe SOLD long time ago 1984 Corvette Z-51/4+3 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Aqua/Gray #474 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Black Rose/Cognac #458 2014 Honda VFR Interceptor DX

07-16-2012	#4
scottfab Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Portland Oregon metro area (Washington side) Posts: 3,207	Re: Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) Just based on your description I'd start with a common issue. It's the little hose running up to the MAP sensor (at the read of the plenum). I can fill with oil. That gurgling sound you describe sure sounds familiar to that. If after clearing that next I'd check for any codes set. Even if the SES (service engine soon) light is not on you may get a leg up on things by looking there. Some codes if transient don't set the SES light. I assume you have a manual? If not we can help you along but they are really invaluable. If the stumbling kicks in when the ECM goes to "closed loop" (warmed up) then there is more to do to isolate but let's see how the MAP hose check turns out. Some things to tell us are: 1. Does it accelerate ok at WOT? 2. What's the fuel pressure? 3. Good solid spark on each cylinder when you pull each plug wire out a few inches? 4. How do you feel about pulling the plenum if needed? __________________ Scott Vett owner since 1979._It's about the car and the people

07-18-2012	#7
Rusty Join Date: May 2012 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 25	Re: Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) Thanks, scottfab. Looks like a great article and we'll definitely study it in detail before attempting the bolt removal (I jest and make light of what I fully expect to be pretty involved job... only joking, and I have great respect for those who have done this successfully and am appreciative of those who are willing to share the expertise they've gained). With any luck it won't come to a plenum pull this time... would love to own the car for more than two months and go through more than 2 tanks of fuel before we have to do something like that!

07-18-2012	#8
mike100 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Marcos CA Posts: 1,802	Re: Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) The previous owner was trying to avoid pulling the plenum too I suspect. Just resign yourself to the project- every single one of these cars will need injectors as they just don't last- either from age or alcohol blended fuels. If it was me personally, I would just buy new ones and change them (based on experience), but there is a good diagnostic to meter out all 16 injectors without taking anything apart. It might take about an hour to do all that. The last time I had to work on the car, it really only took about 35 minutes to remove the plenum.

07-17-2012	#5
Rusty Join Date: May 2012 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 25	Re: Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) Thanks for the suggestions! That gives me some suggestions to try out, which is great. Will hopefully get around to checking the hose to the map sensor this weekend and go from there. I'll post results as things go along, and may have more questions! My shop manuals (purchased from eBay) just arrived on the weekend, so I can refer to those to help with these diagnostics and if anybody is able to point me towards a particularly helpful section/page #. In response to scottfab's questions: 1. It accelerates well at WOT... doesn't seem to hesitate at all, and pulls... impressively, to say the least. 2. - 3. Will check the fuel pressure (and filter) and the spark on each cylinder on the weekend. 4. Personally, I'm not much of a mechanic (yet), but my Dad's been rebuilding his '86 with a new motor and many other TPIS things for the past few years, and he's helping me with the ZR1. So, between the two of us, pulling the plenum is just taking off a bunch of bolts. :-) Bring it on! I'll know more about ZR1 mechanics by the end of this, I'd imagine! Thanks all for the ideas so far and I'll post more when I have some more information!

07-25-2012	#10
Rusty Join Date: May 2012 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 25	Re: Running rough/missing (94 ZR1) Haven't yet had an opportunity to check the hose to the MAP, or much else, really (landscaping projects in the yard have been taking up my time), but I did find that the following codes come up: DTC #21: Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Voltage High. DTC #22: Throttle Position Sensor Circuit Voltage Low. DTC #51: EEPROM Programming Error. DTC #53: System Voltage Low. Will hopefully have more time on the weekend to check things out.