91 ZR-1 Cutting Out Under Load

[GregCrowe]

Originally Posted by tomtom72

Good deal Greg!

You wouldn't happen to have the part number for the GM coils?

TIA

Tom

D555: 10472401
D545: 10467067

Here's a great deal on the D555's:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-G...spagenameZWDVW

[tomtom72]

Thanks Gregg!

[bobbyhi]

Glad you got the Z running again.

I had a similar problem with mine. I switched to the Accel coils and the car wouldn't run very well when hot. I took it to DRM and Doug said that the Accels would fail because of the heat generated by the engine. He replaced with GM coils and the car ran just fine after that. Unfortunately that didn't solve my other problems but that's another story.

[scottfab]

Greg, sure glad you nailed it and really glad you hung onto the car.
I am curious about the Summit coils. Did they take them back?
What size wires are you using? 7mm or 8mm?
Since the summit coils were not subjected to high temperatures I am curious about the failure mechanism. If the primary to secondary winding ratio is large enough over stock then the secondary voltage could be exceeding the insulator breakdown voltage of the wire insulation.
(hotter spark)
The measured resistance seems to indicate this but there are other explanations behind the measured values. (quality and diameter of wire)
I sure would like to cut one of those summit coils apart.
Root cause analysis stuff.
Thanks
Scott

[GregCrowe]

Originally Posted by scottfab

Greg, sure glad you nailed it and really glad you hung onto the car.
I am curious about the Summit coils. Did they take them back?
What size wires are you using? 7mm or 8mm?
Since the summit coils were not subjected to high temperatures I am curious about the failure mechanism. If the primary to secondary winding ratio is large enough over stock then the secondary voltage could be exceeding the insulator breakdown voltage of the wire insulation.
(hotter spark)
The measured resistance seems to indicate this but there are other explanations behind the measured values. (quality and diameter of wire)
I sure would like to cut one of those summit coils apart.
Root cause analysis stuff.
Thanks
Scott

Yes, Summit took them back. I'm using new GM plug wires, think they're 8mm. I think the problem with the Summit/Accel coils was the 2 connection slots. They were too lose, didn't squeeze the terminals that plugged into them.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by GregCrowe

Yes, Summit took them back. I'm using new GM plug wires, think they're 8mm. I think the problem with the Summit/Accel coils was the 2 connection slots. They were too lose, didn't squeeze the terminals that plugged into them.

Ok that makes sense. Good detective work. I put Accel coils in back in mid 2002 and have not had an issue. As I wrote earlier I did have a similar issue to yours with the stock ones but I believe two of them were defective (a few shorted windings) because they read lower resistance on the seconaries than the rest. One thing I did have to do was replace the stock wires with 8mm because they began arcing through the insulation with the Accels. I do remember having connection issues with the new coils on the input because they came with an orange rubber like gasket. The problem was some of the plugs on the wireing harness had the orange gasket still attached. That made for two gaskets and it would not make a proper connection.
Anyway, we're all glad I am sure that you're back on the road. Good timing too. Summer is knocking at the door.=D>

[ZR1North]

Originally Posted by GregCrowe

D555: 10472401
D545: 10467067

Here's a great deal on the D555's:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-G...spagenameZWDVW

What a great thread!

I pursued Greg's tip and purchased the "D555s" noted above, but I am not sure I want to install them now that I have them.

On these new units, the secondary windings are measuring 5.6 to 5.8K which is close to the GM recommended range of 5.6 to 5.7, but the primary windings are measuring 1.7 ohms - GM recommendation is .5 ohms. I am also a little suspecious of the part no on the replacements; it is 10482928 rather than the numbers Greg quoted above. I am thinking - don't think I will use these replacements. Am I being too cautious?

Originally Posted by ZR1North

What a great thread!

I pursued Greg's tip and purchased the "D555s" noted above, but I am not sure I want to install them now that I have them.

On these new units, the secondary windings are measuring 5.6 to 5.8K which is close to the GM recommended range of 5.6 to 5.7, but the primary windings are measuring 1.7 ohms - GM recommendation is .5 ohms. I am also a little suspecious of the part no on the replacements; it is 10482928 rather than the numbers Greg quoted above. I am thinking - don't think I will use these replacements. Am I being too cautious?

Another too good to be true? Those are half the cost of AC delco direct from delco.

[GregCrowe]

Originally Posted by Jeffvette

Another too good to be true? Those are half the cost of AC delco direct from delco.

Yes, I found out this guy up East is misrepresenting these coils as new. They are just take-offs from who knows what. I bought a set from him and promptly sent them back when I found out what he was doing.

The coils I installed on the car were real new GM D555's in GM boxes from O'Reilly Auto Parts.

[ZR1North]

Originally Posted by ZR1North

What a great thread!

I pursued Greg's tip and purchased the "D555s" noted above, but I am not sure I want to install them now that I have them.

On these new units, the secondary windings are measuring 5.6 to 5.8K which is close to the GM recommended range of 5.6 to 5.7, but the primary windings are measuring 1.7 ohms - GM recommendation is .5 ohms. I am also a little suspecious of the part no on the replacements; it is 10482928 rather than the numbers Greg quoted above. I am thinking - don't think I will use these replacements. Am I being too cautious?

I LIKE JERRY'S REPONSE TO MY QUESTION. I'D BE INTERESTED TO KNOW IF ANYONE ELSE HAS SOME WISDOM TO ADD TO THIS - APPRECIATED!

JERRY'S RESPONSE:

CAVEAT: I'm no expert on the subject but think I understand the principal according to the following tech article.

Transformers/Ignition coils

Transformers step-up (increase), step-down (decrease), or pass-through (same level) AC voltage or pulsed DC voltage. A basic power rule applies to transformers; power-in equals power-out. The unit of measure for Power is the Watt. 1 Watt = 1 Volt x 1 Amp.

A transformer has three main components:

An iron core - The iron core is wrapped with two separate coils of wire. The job of the iron core is to strengthen the magnetic fields of the transformer.

Primary winding - The input side of the transformer. This coil of wire is tightly wrapped around the iron core of the transformer.

Secondary winding - The output side of the transformer. This coil of wire is tightly wrapped around the primary winding of the transformer.
There are three basic types of transformers:

Step-up transformer - The primary coil winding has less windings of wire than the secondary coil does. A 1:2 step-up transformer has half as many primary windings as the secondary coil does. This means that if you apply 12V and 12A to the primary winding, approximately 24 V AC will be induced into the secondary winding, however, the output amperage will be cut in half to 6 amps.

Step-down Transformer. - The primary coil winding has more windings of wire than the secondary coil does. A 2:1 step-down transformer has twice as many primary windings as the secondary coil does. This means that if you apply 12V and 12A to the primary winding, approximately 6 V AC will be induced into the secondary winding, however, the output amperage will be doubled to 24 amps.

Pass-through transformer - In a 1:1 transformer, the primary coil winding has just as many windings of wire as the secondary coil does. This means that if you apply 12V and 12A to the primary winding, approximately 12 V AC will be induced into the secondary winding, and the output amperage will be 12 amps. The advantage of a 1:1 transformer is that there is not a direct electrical connection between the two coils. If one side of the circuit gets short circuited, the other side will remain isolated.

Examples of transformer use on automobiles:

Ignition coils - An ignition coil is an example of a step-up transformer, the primary coil input voltage is 12-15 V and the secondary output voltage is 20-60 kV. This means for every primary coil winding there are at least 2000 secondary windings. This also means that the output amperage will be at least 2000 times smaller than the input amperage. Secondary ignition voltage is high voltage, but amperage is low.


Quote:
.....the primarly windings are measuring 1.7 ohms vs the .5 ohms specified by GM. The secondary windings seem ok (the new ones are measuring 5.6K to 5.8K which is close to the 5.6-5.7K quoted by GM).

Since only resistance is known and number of windings is unknown, I assume that winding wire size & type is the same, therefore resistance is a function of length of wire in the windings.

I interpret your findings to show that the resistance of the primary windings in the eBay coil is 3.4 times that of the OEM LT5 coil, meaning it has more windings. If the resistance of the primary windings is higher and the secondary windings resistance is the same, that means the voltage output would be lower than the OEM LT5 coil, i.e. coil discharge voltage is not as high as the OEM LT5 coil.

My non-expert opinion, don't use them. The spark is not as hot.

However, I do have my flame suit on![IMG]http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:forums.*************.com/get/images/smilies/lol.gif[/IMG] END OF JERRY'S TAKE