'94 ZR-1 Sold on Cars & Bids in October-commentary

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

Marty

You can roll your eyes, but go look at BAT results and it shows exactly this. Clean C4s have gone up in value and comparable low mileage Lt1 and Lt4 cars are right there with ZR-1 closer to a 10k margin, not 15k.

There are lots of different perspectives on this. From the driver, to the collector, to the dealer.

Sure, if I had 6 ZR-1s on my car lot, I'd be hoping that wasn't the case.

They are definitely up over the last 2 years, but the entire market is. Clean low mileage cars are starting to bring much more of a premium over drivers cars than they did previously.

The market is cooling off again though. I think it's more of an overall market trend, because air cooled Porsches have leveled off as well. My sister just sold her clean 80k 1984 911 on BAT. BAT cars still bring a 10% premium over the rest of the market for whatever reason. But then, you can look at the 2000 Chevy Metro that just sold on there for 18k and never cease to be amazed at how people spend their money.

If these cars were going to catch that big break they've missed three opportunities that seemingly could have set the benchmark for an increase in popularity.

- The intro of the C6/C7 ZR1s
- The tsunami of a price increase on 90s cars from NSXs to Porsches, to Vipers, to 308s etc. In the time those cars were doubling in value, the ZR-1 sat still.
- Then the reintroduction of the second ever DOHC Corvette motor.

If none of those boosted the popularity, they probably just are what they are. That combined with the similarity to the standard C4, the shitty amenities including interiors, windshields, etc. doesn't exactly make them super desirable. While they are incredibly reliable, the perception is that they are finicky. Whether its injectors, fuel pumps, non-start due to valley drain issues, many need immediate attention and are perceived as difficult to work on and hard to find parts for.

These are not cars the super wealthy are looking for, and while there is hesitancy about what inflation and the market are going to do, I see these sitting right where they are at for the foreseeable future.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by spork2367

You can roll your eyes, but go look at BAT results and it shows exactly this. Clean C4s have gone up in value and comparable low mileage Lt1 and Lt4 cars are right there with ZR-1 closer to a 10k margin, not 15k.

There are lots of different perspectives on this. From the driver, to the collector, to the dealer.

Sure, if I had 6 ZR-1s on my car lot, I'd be hoping that wasn't the case.

They are definitely up over the last 2 years, but the entire market is. Clean low mileage cars are starting to bring much more of a premium over drivers cars than they did previously.

The market is cooling off again though. I think it's more of an overall market trend, because air cooled Porsches have leveled off as well. My sister just sold her clean 80k 1984 911 on BAT. BAT cars still bring a 10% premium over the rest of the market for whatever reason. But then, you can look at the 2000 Chevy Metro that just sold on there for 18k and never cease to be amazed at how people spend their money.

If these cars were going to catch that big break they've missed three opportunities that seemingly could have set the benchmark for an increase in popularity.

- The intro of the C6/C7 ZR1s
- The tsunami of a price increase on 90s cars from NSXs to Porsches, to Vipers, to 308s etc. In the time those cars were doubling in value, the ZR-1 sat still.
- Then the reintroduction of the second ever DOHC Corvette motor.

If none of those boosted the popularity, they probably just are what they are. That combined with the similarity to the standard C4, the shitty amenities including interiors, windshields, etc. doesn't exactly make them super desirable. While they are incredibly reliable, the perception is that they are finicky. Whether its injectors, fuel pumps, non-start due to valley drain issues, many need immediate attention and are perceived as difficult to work on and hard to find parts for.

These are not cars the super wealthy are looking for, and while there is hesitancy about what inflation and the market are going to do, I see these sitting right where they are at for the foreseeable future.

I agree with the highlighted.
Selling them between 40k and 70k.
Not just me.
Mecum.
BAT.
and others.
Very likely will continue, then higher.


Marty

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

I agree with the highlighted.
Selling them between 40k and 70k.
Not just me.
Mecum.
BAT.
and others.
Very likely will continue, then higher.


Marty

I track all of this. More low mileage (sub 10k) cars have traded hands in auction this year than any previous year of record. That could mean two things (not mutually exclusive):

- The collector's market has picked up for the zr-1.
- People don't believe the low mileage cars are going to appreciate significantly beyond their current point.

For your 40-70k number, I would agree if we were talking sub 5k mile cars. Beyond that, no. And the data doesn't support that being the new "range." The range, inclusive of all mileage, but excluding damaged cars is 18-75k. Virtually no cars with over 10k miles have broken the 40k price barrier. Average by mileage:

sub 5k - 50057
sub 10k - 38855
10k+ - 29250

Opinions vary, data doesn't lie.

[onethumb]

I watched a 21k mile '95 sell for $40,700 at Barret Jackson a week ago. Bid to 37k plus 10% buyers fee.

It was a nice car, nothing special but a solid low-mile car that you'd be able to drive.

Just a couple of years ago that's a 25k car.

[bb62]

Originally Posted by spork2367

I track all of this. More low mileage (sub 10k) cars have traded hands in auction this year than any previous year of record. That could mean two things (not mutually exclusive):

- The collector's market has picked up for the zr-1.
- People don't believe the low mileage cars are going to appreciate significantly beyond their current point.

For your 40-70k number, I would agree if we were talking sub 5k mile cars. Beyond that, no. And the data doesn't support that being the new "range." The range, inclusive of all mileage, but excluding damaged cars is 18-75k. Virtually no cars with over 10k miles have broken the 40k price barrier. Average by mileage:

sub 5k - 50057
sub 10k - 38855
10k+ - 29250

Opinions vary, data doesn't lie.

Using your numbers, what is the average of non-ZR-1 C4s sub-10K. It most certainly is not $23K. What average of base cars under 5K is selling for $35K. Your own numbers show you are wrong.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by bb62

Using your numbers, what is the average of non-ZR-1 C4s sub-10K. It most certainly is not $23K. What average of base cars under 5K is selling for $35K. Your own numbers show you are wrong.

You're reading way too much into a surface level comparison. The actual numbers I provided are ZR-1 only. There are just too many variables with standard c4s and very few are going to auction. I really don't watch them. In the ZR-1 world we are talking about 6 years with very few options other than color separating them. Standard C4s span 13 years with both convertibles and coupes, automatics, manuals, 4+3s, zf6s, 205 HP L83 through 330 HP Lt4s...

But they are climbing.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...t-corvette-36/

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-corvette-102/

[KJL]

That perception that the cars are difficult to work on is correct and some engine/drive train parts are not just hard to find...in some cases simply don't exist anymore.

[AirbusDriver]

93 ZR1 with less than 1,000 miles just sold for 86K plus the juice on BaT.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by AirbusDriver

93 ZR1 with less than 1,000 miles just sold for 86K plus the juice on BaT.

Probably the rarest production C4 in existence, a sub 1k 93 anniversary edition zr-1. Not surprised in the price, but the market appears to be cooling. I think mid to late last year it would have broke 100k.

Originally Posted by Subfixer

A 93 flood car sold on Copart for North of 17K. More than I was willing to spend.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app

That's just idiocy.