Solution for Parts Availability Concerns

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Seems every week, the sky is falling.


Some lament that ZR-1 parts are getting hard to find, will soon run out, cars will become scrap, extinct and worthless.


Some facts.
Chicken Little also felt the same way about Fuel Injection parts for 50's and 60's Corvettes. He said there were only 10,000 or so made, and they are becoming extinct and Fuelies will become worthless.


Never Happened!


Came Close, but then folks started to harvest parts from deceased cars, NOS parts kept turning up, re-builders stepped in as prices soared for the unobtanium, and low and behold, even though over FIFTY YEARS have passed, I can still this day get any piece I need, or an entire unit as long as I open my check book.


While I have been told that dinosaurs died, and they did, there is no rational argument that proves that the same thing won't play out for ZR-1 parts. While some may FEEL that no one will want these cars in the future, that has never been factually proven to date.


When some restorer needs an ignition module to finish a full restoration that has taken years and tens of thousands of dollars to complete, do you really think they won't write the required check to get one?


And when they stand with pen poised over the check, you really don't think some entrepreneur will find a way to give them what they need to get that "priceless" part.


God, I love capitalism!


Now,
ZR-1 parts have a two fold issue.
1- there are not many
2- EVERYONE maintains a stash!


They then read the stuff on this and other forums, and they buy and stash more and more exacerbating the problem.


SOLUTION


Form the 1st National Bank of ZR-1 Registry Parts.


You become a "depositor" by placing some or all of your stash in the "BANK"
As you deposit you build up a "value" equal to the current market value of your deposits.
Depositors only may make withdrawals of ANY part currently held by the bank at today's market price plus 10% for the bank.


Given some time, the hordes of stashed parts would move into the bank and become available to those that need them, likely fulfilling the actual "NEEDS" for many years to come.


Unavailable parts could be listed as wanted with a current willing to buy price. As those prices rise, someone will step in and find a way to develop a solution.


Just a brief outline, but you get the idea.
Members can submit refinements and suggestions and eventually a workable bank would become feasible.
The Registry could either hire someone to run the bank, or source it out to any company that wants to run it. ( I do not ).
There are likely many, many potential depositors out there.


These cars will become restoration candidates in the future.
As such, then vendors that furnish parts today for the 53 and up, will soon discover the C-4 ZR-1 market as the demand begins to swell.


OK, I think I will solve world peace now.
Marty

[Corvettes White]

I do not trust banks. Perfer to keep my parts and money
under the mattress. 😁

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

Seems every week, the sky is falling.


Some lament that ZR-1 parts are getting hard to find, will soon run out, cars will become scrap, extinct and worthless.


Some facts.
Chicken Little also felt the same way about Fuel Injection parts for 50's and 60's Corvettes. He said there were only 10,000 or so made, and they are becoming extinct and Fuelies will become worthless.


Never Happened!


Came Close, but then folks started to harvest parts from deceased cars, NOS parts kept turning up, re-builders stepped in as prices soared for the unobtanium, and low and behold, even though over FIFTY YEARS have passed, I can still this day get any piece I need, or an entire unit as long as I open my check book.

Every couple months there is another part people notice isn't available where they used to see it.

Will the cars become scrap? No. Might they be cost prohibitive to maintain? Yes.

Big difference between mechanical fuel injection and ZR-1 parts being that essentially any one of those parts can easily be manufactured with minimal investment. The worst items being castings. Plus Rochester made fuel injection units for dozens of other applications which shared small parts. And while parts and units are expensive, the cars are VERY expensive. So an 8-10k unit may only be 10% of the value of the car (and it would be rare to need to replace a whole unit). And if the car was missing the unit, spending 10k to replace it would raise the overall value 20k. So it would be a good investment.

Plus, they made about 12,500 mechanically fuel injected cars across a 9 year period. And a TON of those units were taken off and replaced with carbs, which left a lot of low mileage units and parts sitting on shelves. Not counting the spares that were produced.

No one is going to remake some ZR-1 parts...ever. And the cars aren't worth a ton, so spending 25% of the value of the car may not make sense. Certainly though, there is a lot of stuff being hoarded. Let's face it, there was a lot of commonly available stuff 5 years ago that isn't now, and it obviously hasn't all been used.

Much like the Model T comparison earlier, the level of technology in a C1 corvette is downright crude compared to a ZR-1.


While I have been told that dinosaurs died, and they did, there is no rational argument that proves that the same thing won't play out for ZR-1 parts. While some may FEEL that no one will want these cars in the future, that has never been factually proven to date.


When some restorer needs an ignition module to finish a full restoration that has taken years and tens of thousands of dollars to complete, do you really think they won't write the required check to get one?


When, where, why, how? Or are you just speculating that these cars are going to be restoration candidates in the future? I personally don't believe they will be.

People will always want them, but people want lots of things they can't have or that aren't practical. You're assuming these cars will appreciate like all other Corvettes have (or are). I don't think that will happen.

And when they stand with pen poised over the check, you really don't think some entrepreneur will find a way to give them what they need to get that "priceless" part.

That may happen in the future, but the price of the cars will have to go WAY up for that point to be reached.


God, I love capitalism!


Now,
ZR-1 parts have a two fold issue.
1- there are not many
2- EVERYONE maintains a stash!


They then read the stuff on this and other forums, and they buy and stash more and more exacerbating the problem.

Agreed.


SOLUTION


Form the 1st National Bank of ZR-1 Registry Parts.


You become a "depositor" by placing some or all of your stash in the "BANK"
As you deposit you build up a "value" equal to the current market value of your deposits.
Depositors only may make withdrawals of ANY part currently held by the bank at today's market price plus 10% for the bank.


Given some time, the hordes of stashed parts would move into the bank and become available to those that need them, likely fulfilling the actual "NEEDS" for many years to come.

You said you loved capitalism and now you are trying to sell us on socialism. Who dictates when a part is "needed." Who sets prices? If there is one part and two needs, does the more desirable car get priority? Like I said, I can count on one finger the number of people who ponied up an ignition module when a member needed it....one, me...


Unavailable parts could be listed as wanted with a current willing to buy price. As those prices rise, someone will step in and find a way to develop a solution.


Just a brief outline, but you get the idea.
Members can submit refinements and suggestions and eventually a workable bank would become feasible.
The Registry could either hire someone to run the bank, or source it out to any company that wants to run it. ( I do not ).
There are likely many, many potential depositors out there.


These cars will become restoration candidates in the future.
As such, then vendors that furnish parts today for the 53 and up, will soon discover the C-4 ZR-1 market as the demand begins to swell.

I don't believe they will be real restoration candidates...probably ever. C4 parts that are common to both cars...yes, they will probably be remade because people want to keep their cars on the road. ZR-1 specific parts...for the most part, no. Example: Might someone make a fiberglass rear bumper cover eventually...sure. Bumper cover molding? Nope.

OK, I think I will solve world peace now.
Marty

There are parts for which no one will ever develop a replacement. This is coming from a manufacturing engineer, who runs a small CNC job shop and works in a facility that builds piston aircraft engines designed in the 1950's. I understand the concept and reality far more than most. We make old replacement parts because the FAA essentially mandates it. No one is mandating replacement car parts be made and the investment needed to reproduce some of these parts for a market of 6000 or less cars (assuming every drivable car needed the part) is by far more expensive than what someone will invest.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Remind me not no toast any marshmallows near any campfire that you have been around.


Is it always raining in your world?


Again, you are welcome to your opinion as I am, and I also choose not to engage in another debate of silly foolish stuff.


You really should divest of your car and parts if that is how you really feel, that they are and always will be worthless.


My suspicion is you more enjoy being contrarian to me.
If I gave you a million dollars, you likely would say it ruined your life.
Don't worry; I won't.


Well, again have fun, as I really do not care.
Marty

[A26B]

I'm not seeing the matter quite as critical as some.

Parts currently in shortage but being resolved presently

DIS (ignition) Module: I expect to resolve this one in the near future

ECM/ECU: Marc Haibeck is working on rebuild of this part

Fuel Pressure Regulator: I am working on this part, new CNC body, no more rebuild delay.

Stock Sleeves/Pistons/Rings: I have now, as aftermarket components

Dual Mass Flywheel: No longer in my stock but used are available & I would think these can be rebuilt in future.

Throttle Body: Can be rebuilt at present.

Secondary Port Throttle Actuators: White Racing represents this part as new aftermarket, in stock. SPT elimination is common & used are generally available.

Serpentine Belt Tensioner: Rebuild service available by Marc Haibeck

Starters & Alternators: NOT a problem now or in the forseeable future

Oil Pump: 93~95 NOS available. 90~92 can be rebuilt using 93~95 gears & wear surfaces restored.

Clutch Components:
(1)Disc: After market readily available,
(2)Forks repairable,
(3)Pressure Place: Repairable & L98 aftermarket replacement available.
(4)Release Bearing: Supply of used & new sometimes erratic
(5)Entire clutch can be replaced with aftermarket conversion to push-release & minor mods, eliminating slave, fork, stud & OE release bearing, ALL in conjunction with stock D/M flywheel.

Fuel Pump Sender assy: new senders are going extinct, but pumps alone are readily available & senders can be replaced on the ZR-1 bracket.

The list goes on.

It might be easier to list what else is not available or not being resolved now. I don't get into much beyond power train, so I can't address CCM & such.

EDIT: FWIW, Jerrys Gaskets has manufactured about 2 dozen parts, not counting gaskets & seals. My business philosophy is different than conventional. I am retired from my profession & don't make a living from Jerrys Gaskets. Consequently, I can economically justify new parts development well outside of normal yardsticks, payout, return on investment, discounted rate of return, etc. I let total cash flow carry the burden of new part R&D + mfg. It's more about getting it done than profit assessment on each individual part. For example, I had to make 2,000 of each of the 5 different chain guide facings. That was in 2013 and sales to date is about 25 of each. My great grandchildren will inherit them!

[secondchance]

I have been using my Z as a daily driver (non rainy days since 2012) since 1991. Sure, parts was no problem at least until 2004 - 2006.
All I have to say is "where there is will there is a way".

[TX '90 ZR1]

You got ta' love it!!
Observing the differences in perspective stated by different posters makes one wonder how other things are playing out for them.
More times than not, the attitude going into a situation will have an effect on it's outcome.
I'll just leave it at that for now.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

Remind me not no toast any marshmallows near any campfire that you have been around.


Is it always raining in your world?


Again, you are welcome to your opinion as I am, and I also choose not to engage in another debate of silly foolish stuff.


You really should divest of your car and parts if that is how you really feel, that they are and always will be worthless.


My suspicion is you more enjoy being contrarian to me.
If I gave you a million dollars, you likely would say it ruined your life.
Don't worry; I won't.


Well, again have fun, as I really do not care.
Marty

You started this thread!!!??? Pretty opinionated post for not caring. You certainly aren't the only person on here I disagree with but I also know there are people who agree with me, but they are quickly jumped on as "negative, sky is falling" type people and then just stay out of conversations. I'm not negative, I'm pragmatic bordering on cynical. I'm FAR more aware of the costs and reality of manufacturing than 98% of the people on this forum.

On the other side are the "it's always sunny, things will get better, buck up," people like yourself, painting a picture of the ZR-1 world that you're viewing through rose colored glasses. Painting that picture behooves you more than most because you have an inventory of cars you are trying to sell for money that has yet to be seen in the ZR-1 market.

But we've already seen several people on this forum in the last year that have bought these cars and become frustrated/inundated with simple and complex problems they didn't understand as well as big maintenance costs they didn't anticipate. For them, a pragmatic view might have saved them some money and heartache.

Again, you haven't given anything to debate beyond your first post. Just like when you never addressed the fact that you were comparing original MSRPs of cars to current values without adjusting for inflation...and you were in banking, so you certainly know better.

And the only debate is about future prices/availability. Again, you contradict yourself: "Yay capitalism, money will fix the problem." then in the same post: "Socialism rules, put all your parts in the collective for the greater good." Which is it?

The rest is just facts. There are less parts available now and they have gone up significantly in price. The value of the cars has not gone up at the same rate in the same period of time.

I never said parts or cars were worthless. In fact, I've been pointing out that parts have gone way up in price. Why would I divest myself of an investment that has seen in some cases 50% gains in value? I don't think the cars and parts are worthless, quite the contrary. I've invested in them because I think the parts (more than the cars) will go up in value quickly. So far I've been proven 100% correct. I've not purchased one part that is worth less now than when I bought it.

But I also love the cars. That's why I've restored one cars drivability and am working on another. I want to see these cars keep running. I'd love a fleet of them.

Originally Posted by A26B

I'm not seeing the matter quite as critical as some.

Parts currently in shortage but being resolved presently

DIS (ignition) Module: I expect to resolve this one in the near future

ECM/ECU: Marc Haibeck is working on rebuild of this part

Fuel Pressure Regulator: I am working on this part, new CNC body, no more rebuild delay.

Stock Sleeves/Pistons/Rings: I have now, as aftermarket components

Dual Mass Flywheel: No longer in my stock but used are available & I would think these can be rebuilt in future.

Throttle Body: Can be rebuilt at present.

Secondary Port Throttle Actuators: White Racing represents this part as new aftermarket, in stock. SPT elimination is common & used are generally available.

Serpentine Belt Tensioner: Rebuild service available by Marc Haibeck

Starters & Alternators: NOT a problem now or in the forseeable future

Oil Pump: 93~95 NOS available. 90~92 can be rebuilt using 93~95 gears & wear surfaces restored.

Clutch Components:
(1)Disc: After market readily available,
(2)Forks repairable,
(3)Pressure Place: Repairable & L98 aftermarket replacement available.
(4)Release Bearing: Supply of used & new sometimes erratic
(5)Entire clutch can be replaced with aftermarket conversion to push-release & minor mods, eliminating slave, fork, stud & OE release bearing, ALL in conjunction with stock D/M flywheel.

Fuel Pump Sender assy: new senders are going extinct, but pumps alone are readily available & senders can be replaced on the ZR-1 bracket.

The list goes on.

It might be easier to list what else is not available or not being resolved now. I don't get into much beyond power train, so I can't address CCM & such.

EDIT: FWIW, Jerrys Gaskets has manufactured about 2 dozen parts, not counting gaskets & seals. My business philosophy is different than conventional. I am retired from my profession & don't make a living from Jerrys Gaskets. Consequently, I can economically justify new parts development well outside of normal yardsticks, payout, return on investment, discounted rate of return, etc. I let total cash flow carry the burden of new part R&D + mfg. It's more about getting it done than profit assessment on each individual part. For example, I had to make 2,000 of each of the 5 different chain guide facings. That was in 2013 and sales to date is about 25 of each. My great grandchildren will inherit them!

You've almost single handedly kept the engine alive from an internal parts standpoint. If it weren't for you, we'd be way past the critical point for parts. I hope your great grandchildren love ZR-1s.

One critical juncture will be when people like you, Marc, and some others decided to retire or in your case re-retire. Hopefully there is someone willing to take on those tasks.

Originally Posted by secondchance

I have been using my Z as a daily driver (non rainy days since 2012) since 1991. Sure, parts was no problem at least until 2004 - 2006.
All I have to say is "where there is will there is a way".

"Where there is a will there is a way," sounds good, but there is a monetary factor and manufacturability factors. GM could spread the investment cost in the ZR-1 over the entire GM product line. Jerry can spread the investment cost of some new parts over the revenue from the other parts he sells. That simply won't always work.

The other big factor for some is, how much value the car will retain with a pile of aftermarket replacement parts. If you're going to drive it until the wheels fall off, it is just a really expensive to maintain sports car and many people decide to sell to buy a C5 Z06. For others they want to drive and enjoy the car while maintaining value in originality. That will be difficult.

Originally Posted by TX '90 ZR1

You got ta' love it!!
Observing the differences in perspective stated by different posters makes one wonder how other things are playing out for them.
More times than not, the attitude going into a situation will have an effect on it's outcome.
I'll just leave it at that for now.

Everything ZR-1 I've purchased is worth more than what I paid. Now, the one car I fixed is worth more in parts than as a driving car...but....anyway...lol.

But I don't disagree. There are a lot of people who bought their cars at the peak a couple years ago who are probably hoping parts stay available and the prices of cars go up.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Spork,]
To be clear, it is your pessimistic view that I do not care about, you are welcome to it, I just don't share it nor do I wish to debate it with you.
You mist-state or misunderstand most of what I say anyhow, so it is pointless.
Enjoy your car, or whatever with it.
Marty

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

Spork,]
To be clear, it is your pessimistic view that I do not care about, you are welcome to it, I just don't share it nor do I wish to debate it with you.
You mist-state or misunderstand most of what I say anyhow, so it is pointless.
Enjoy your car, or whatever with it.
Marty

That's your go to claim that you haven't backed up once. I "don't understand what you're trying to say." Yes, I do. We all do, it's not that complex.

How am I misunderstanding your comparison of an easily manufactured mechanical fuel injection unit to complex electromechanical components and systems?

How am I misunderstanding that you compared an MSRP from a C3 corvette with a value today and didn't adjust it for inflation? As a financial person you know for a fact that isn't an acceptable practice.

How did I misunderstand that you literally said: "God, I love capitalism!", then followed that up with a suggestion about how we should have a quasi socialist parts bank?


It's not pessimistic if it's true. Opinions can be pessimistic. Facts can't be.

My "pessimistic" opinion:

1. Cars aren't going up significantly anytime soon.

2. We are going to see more parts failures and cars with issues as more cars go from collectors pieces to drivers. (this is almost fact as it's based on statistical probability)

3. People are going to be less inclined to share from their own parts hoards. (I sold an individual an ignition module when no one else would.)

4. More people bought these cars as investments than would like to admit and are concerned that "negative" or "pessimistic" views will affect their value.

Facts:

1. The cost of parts have gone up faster than the cost of cars.

2. Parts are harder to find and more expensive than ever.

3. Much of the value retained by any collector car is in it's originality, not simply the ability to keep it running and drivable.

4. No amount of pessimistic opinion will stifle the value of a collector car unless there are facts that support that opinion.