LS1b (411) PCM Swap

[LGAFF]

Its the Bentley test engine, 2 were built....its in the video Thunder at Stillwater and its actually the motor that was for sale in MI a few years ago.

[XfireZ51]

Originally Posted by LGAFF

Its the Bentley test engine, 2 were built....its in the video Thunder at Stillwater and its actually the motor that was for sale in MI a few years ago.

Lee,

Any of your MM contacts know any details?
What about Graham Behan at LPE?

[Hog]

There is another GM application which uses the 24x CKP signal and the 1x CMP(cam) signal. Its the 1998-2001 rpo L21 Vortec 454 which was used in MD/HD trucks as a replacement for the truck 366/427 engines. The L21 is the 1st BBC to run CNP(coil near plug-8 coils) and ETC(electronic throttle control). Basically its a L29 Vortec 454 (used in all 3/4 ton and 1 ton GM trucks from 96-00) with CNP and ETC. After MY2000 GM switched to the L18 8.1(496) GEN VII(GEN 7) BBC.

This crank reluctor wheel is the same wheel design that EFIConnection uses except it now fits the SBC crank snout.

Here are the GM P/N', this reluctor must be used with this CKP sensor.
Reluctor - 12552480 $19.10
crank sensor - 10456248 $71.77 as per GM parts direct

This reluctor wheel is much smaller than the LS1 wheels as its placed behind the balancer underneath a front timing chain cover.

The L21 used PCM's 16232148 and 16238212 which are the 1997-00 dual 80 pin connectored 512kb PCM's, the 411 PCM came after for the 01-02 Vette/Camaro/Firebird and a few 03 Vette applications.

Not sure if this might help or not, but its another (cheap) source of a 24x signal.

Page 11 of this http://www.allworldautomotive.com/fe...Color_2011.pdflink has a pic. listed for a 1999-2000 BBC. On page 10 it shows the conventional Vortec 96-2000 Vortec 305/350 4x reluctor and the 1996-2000 Vortec V6 3x reluctor wheels. LS1(24x) and 8.1(24x) wheels are also listed with pics.


peace
Hog

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Hog

There is another GM application which uses the 24x CKP signal and the 1x CMP(cam) signal. Its the 1998-2001 rpo L21 Vortec 454 which was used in MD/HD trucks as a replacement for the truck 366/427 engines. The L21 is the 1st BBC to run CNP(coil near plug-8 coils) and ETC(electronic throttle control). Basically its a L29 Vortec 454 (used in all 3/4 ton and 1 ton GM trucks from 96-00) with CNP and ETC. After MY2000 GM switched to the L18 8.1(496) GEN VII(GEN 7) BBC.

This crank reluctor wheel is the same wheel design that EFIConnection uses except it now fits the SBC crank snout.

Here are the GM P/N', this reluctor must be used with this CKP sensor.
Reluctor - 12552480 $19.10
crank sensor - 10456248 $71.77 as per GM parts direct

This reluctor wheel is much smaller than the LS1 wheels as its placed behind the balancer underneath a front timing chain cover.

The L21 used PCM's 16232148 and 16238212 which are the 1997-00 dual 80 pin connectored 512kb PCM's, the 411 PCM came after for the 01-02 Vette/Camaro/Firebird and a few 03 Vette applications.

Not sure if this might help or not, but its another (cheap) source of a 24x signal.

Page 11 of this http://www.allworldautomotive.com/fe...Color_2011.pdflink has a pic. listed for a 1999-2000 BBC. On page 10 it shows the conventional Vortec 96-2000 Vortec 305/350 4x reluctor and the 1996-2000 Vortec V6 3x reluctor wheels. LS1(24x) and 8.1(24x) wheels are also listed with pics.


peace
Hog

Hog,

Thanks for the info. I haven't abandoned this project, but the flood damage to (and total loss of) my ZR-1 set me back. I have my replacement ZR-1 and all of my time has been spent swapping parts and getting it in shape. Hopefully I will be able to get back on this soon.

Jep

[Merlot566jka]

Jep,

I am still actively working on this, over here... http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-t...post1582765003

Is the LT5 crank keyed on the nose?

-Jonathan

[VetteVet]

Jonathan,

Yes, the LT5 crank is keyed. I looked at your info on the other forum. It looks like you have dug up quite a bit of info that I had not found. On the issue of the PCM having native UART comms, are you looking at an LS1a PCM? I don't think that the LS1b PCMs have the UART output. My hope was to use an LS1b, as they are MUCH more capable units.

Jep

[Merlot566jka]

Jep,

How are you defining the difference between LS1a and LS1b?

From what I have found, They all used UART to connect with the Serial Data link. Either way, I am 99% sure that up until GM-LAN came out, the PCMs all had UART capability.

The point where it changed is when they went away from the 6800 series processor.

quote from Team ZR-1 Forum....

Ten years after vendors invented flash memory it arrived in the all-new, on-board diagnostic (OBD-I) 1994 LT1 Y/F-body powertrain control module (PCM).*
The spiffy new controller featured 128 kilobytes of flash memory and two 16-bit Motorola 6800 series processors. It actually used two separate computer boards, each with its own processor and flash memory, which many thought were independent for engine and transmission control, but GM referred to them as the Event and Time processors.*

The controller would remain unchanged through 1995 and was recognized with the*service code 16188051.*
The '94-'95 LT1 Corvettes used essentially the same PCM, but with one additional microchip to begin OBD-II-like communications. The Vette controller used*service code 16181333.

In 1996, the mandated arrival of second-generation on-board diagnostics (OBD-II) was the notable news. The LT1 PCM for '96 was similar in architecture to its predecessor, but featured a faster 6800 series processor and a doubling of one memory chip's size-for a total combined flash memory of 192 kilobytes.*

The service code for '96 was*16214399. The 1997 module was practically a carryover and is interchangeable with 1996 modules, but it hailed under a new service code of*16242921.*

The 1996 LT4 Corvettes also featured a relaxed knock module, which enabled more aggressive spark advance.*
Thanks to its plug-and-play interchange-ability, this removable knock module, identified by GM Part Number*16214681, became a transplant favorite for LT1-based '96 and '97 cars. Besides the knock module difference, the difference between LT1 and LT4 controllers was limited to the calibration.

Also making a splash in 1997 was the Corvette's all-new Gen III LS1 engine. A completely new PCM was developed to control the new engine architecture. The '97 LS1 module was designed around a much faster Motorola 68000 series processor.*
The unit's memory was also cranked up, now with a whopping 512 kilobytes on board. The pumped-up processor and memory allowed for a single integrated computer board, responsible for both time and event related computation.*

The module remained identical for 1998 as well, and had a service code of*16238212.*
A clean sheet approach to engine control was applied for the LS1 as well. The General still used familiar algorithms, such as short and long term fuel trims, but the mapping took on new looks and the interaction became more sophisticated, capitalizing on the addition of a crank position sensor and coil-on-plug ignition. However, the LT1 individual cylinder fuel trims were gone.

In 1999, the LS1 PCM was re-designed again. The connectors look practically the same as those on '97-'98 PCMs, but the smaller body of the new '99 PCM made it clearly distinguish-able.*

Even though the connectors ap-pear the same, the PCMs are not inter-changeable and the pin-outs are vastly different. Just plug-ging a '99 PCM into an older harness can damage the PCM due to the wiring differences.*
Internally, the redesigned LS1 controller featured tighter packaged electronics, but still utilized the Motorola 68000 chip, albeit with a faster clock speed. The '99 PCM carried over unchanged for 2000, and the two share a service code of*09354896.*

From a operating standpoint, the big news for '99 was the extension of the MAF table range. The '99 peaked at 12,000 Hz, up from the '98 peak of 11,250 Hz, which was easily exceeded. The increase in recognized flow potential carried out in load tables as well, expanding the peak from 1.0 gram/cylinder in '98 to 1.2 gram/cylinder in '99.*
The extra range enabled tuning for big engines. The faster processor made chugging through the maps at high rates (aka high rpm) more efficient as well.

In 2001, the LS1 PCM was upgraded again with a faster version of the Motorola 68000 chip. Additionally, some of the internal memory was moved around, making re-flashed, retro-fit interchangeability with '99-'00 questionable. Externally, the PCM is indistinguishable from '99-'00 modules.*

The '01 architecture remained unchanged across platforms through 2002, and again for 2003 Vettes. The PCM used service code*12200411. From an operating standpoint, this PCM introduced various algorithm improvements and mapping expansions, such as the advanced spark control tables-i.e., modifiers based on ECT, IAT, and AFR.

For 2003, the Gen III PCM for trucks was upgraded with an even faster version of the Motorola 68000 chip. The same upgrade was rolled out on the car side in 2004 Vette and GTO.*

The flash memory was now doubled from 512 kilobytes to 1024 kilobytes, to help facilitate further expansion of control coding. Externally, the new PCM was identifiable by its 'green' connector (replacing the 'red' connector found on '99-'02 PCMs).*
This PCM would remain basically unchanged through its remaining usage up to 2007.*
However, several service codes existed due to internal manufacturing or sourcing changes, such as Intel-brand flash memory or AMD-brand flash memory.*
This brand-swapping was fairly transparent to the user, but caused tuning and diagnostic tools to be re-designed to ensure compatibility. The service codes for '03-'07 include*12576106, 12586243, 12586242, 12583560, 12583561, and 12589463.*

These PCMs are interchangeable, with a complete re-flash of the appropriate operating system. Thanks to its fast processor and large memory, this PCM is considered the optimal choice for LS1 transplants.

By 2008, federal law requires all factory controllers to be controller area network (CAN) based. GM got a jump on the new architecture with the Gen IV LS2 and truck LH6 engines in 2005.

The totally new engine control module (ECM),*dubbed E40, still used a processor from the Motorola 68000 series, but a newer and faster version.*
Flash memory size remained 1 megabyte, the same as existing LS1 PCMs, but it was a newer generation of flash. The increases in performance were complemented with a radical reduction in size as well.*
Following the nature of electronics evolution, the new box was drastically smaller than its predecessor, and also featured highly compacted, smaller connectors. The E40 also only controls the engine. Transmission control was separated out to a new stand-alone controller, the transmission control module (TCM), named T42.*

Yet both new units combined were still much smaller than one combination LS1 controller. The new TCM is also a flash-based unit, featuring 1 megabyte of memory.*
This separation of PCM to ECM and TCM allowed for easier powertrain integration between the various platforms utilizing Gen IV powertrains.*
The E40 would only serve two years as a GM controller between '05 and '06.

For 2006, GM introduced two new ECMs,*E38 and E67.*
These controllers look somewhat similar to the E40, but slightly different connectors exist on each of the three, and none interchange.*
The new ECMs featured a departure from the historied 68000 series chip for a new*Motorola PowerPC based 40 MHz, 32-bit RISC processor*and a flash memory bumped up to a hefty 2 megabytes, or 2048 kilobytes-twice that of the replaced controllers.*

They are also the first GM controllers to feature floating-point processing, an improvement to the accuracy in which it makes calculations.*
The E67 has a slight edge on E38, thanks to its additional input/output lines, thus making it the choice for vehicles with variable valve timing.*

Also new for 2006 was the T43 transmission controller for six speed automatics. In another radical move, the T43 found a home 'inside' the transmission. The T43 is actually tucked in with the valve body, and has yet to receive a service part number from GM.

Clearly, GM's powertrain controllers have come a long way over the years, and we expect the ongoing evolution to continue on its advancing path.*
It's been 23 years since Masuoka's invention of flash memory, and 13 years since taking duty in GM's controllers.*
Now it's arguably one of the most important advancements that enabled the mainstream popularity of DIY custom tuning.


_________________________
JR*
True Custom Performance Tuning
Teamzr1.com

'''''''''
End Quote.

This is what I have found in brief about the evolution of the PCMs


-Jonathan

[VetteVet]

Jonathan,

The LS1b PCM is the 411 PCM. I have looked at pinouts for all 411 applications that I can find and none of them have a pin for 8192 UART out, only Class II serial data.

If you are aware of an application for the 411 PCM that shows it is capable of 8192 UART communication, please let me know.

Why else would GM (or Holden) go through the trouble and expense of developing and installing a PIM if the 411 has the hardware onboard?

Based on my research, I am leaning away from any LS PCMs other than the 411. It is a much more capable PCM (and tuning support is WAY better) than the ones used from 1997-2000.

If you'd like, we can take this discussion over to CF to consolidate the info.

I appreciate your efforts.

Jep

[Merlot566jka]

2003 c5 corvette 0411 pcm, pin 14 on the c1 blue connector, tan wire, 800 series UART data for Throttle Actuator Control Serial Data

in the past all 800 series circuits were UART, as is here.

Consolidation wouldn't hurt, although once I have this all sorted out, I think consolidation will be a must.

I got some of the wiring harness pinouts for the swap completed this morning, I will be working on the rest tonight. It seems that some circuits just take a new name, but the data is the same. I will post more on the CF as I go about it tonight.

(and to add, there may be a way to make a swap "adapter" for the pcm's... no need to re-pin everything. I have re-pinned hundreds of connectors...and I hate it as much as I did the first time I did it)