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-   -   90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued (http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27308)

tommy 02-19-2018 04:15 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
nice story, good work!

tell me pls clipers are from porsche 911?

S.hafsmo 02-19-2018 04:41 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Thanks!
They are indeed the "big red" from the 911 (993). The kit is made by Movit in Germany.

tommy 02-19-2018 04:45 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
ok, thanks.

S.hafsmo 02-22-2018 03:04 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
As mentioned before, I've had some idle issues. A couple days ago I picked up the investigation with the following results. The car idles steady at approx. 750 RPM when the fans are running. If I plug the bore to the primary blade, the idle reduces to 700. IAC count obviously at zero.
I removed the TB for another inspection, and it's obvious that there is quite a bit of wear on all the plates. The secondary blades show a lot of light around the shafts, and the primary lights up everywhere.
Instead of going through with the whole DAG-procedure, I've now packed up the TB and sent it of to the US for Marc to work his magic. Must say I'm curious if he'll be able to mend it.

I've also removed the exhaust, as the pilot bearing is next on the list of jobs.


The daily effort is rather limited due to the 5°F in my garage.

S.hafsmo 02-22-2018 03:07 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Primary and secondary blades

https://i.imgur.com/K87RPOT.png

https://i.imgur.com/8dqaUDn.png

VisionOP8 02-22-2018 02:55 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Cool story man. I love reading stuff like that. Looks to me like it's in good hands this time.

Ccmano 02-22-2018 03:02 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.hafsmo (Post 274910)
As mentioned before, I've had some idle issues. A couple days ago I picked up the investigation with the following results. The car idles steady at approx. 750 RPM when the fans are running. If I plug the bore to the primary blade, the idle reduces to 700. IAC count obviously at zero.
I removed the TB for another inspection, and it's obvious that there is quite a bit of wear on all the plates. The secondary blades show a lot of light around the shafts, and the primary lights up everywhere.
Instead of going through with the whole DAG-procedure, I've now packed up the TB and sent it of to the US for Marc to work his magic. Must say I'm curious if he'll be able to mend it.

I've also removed the exhaust, as the pilot bearing is next on the list of jobs.


The daily effort is rather limited due to the 5°F in my garage.

That will do it. Good call sending the TB to Marc. I don’t think is so much wear as it is the DAG was either wiped off or it somehow came off. My 181k mile car shows very little light through the secondary throttle Plates. If wear were an issue mine should certainly show it. I think in most cases it just over zealous cleaning.
H
:cheers:

LGAFF 02-22-2018 06:43 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
This stuff works like DAG...I believe its the same material essentially
https://www.grainger.com/product/41P...180222234249:s

S.hafsmo 02-22-2018 11:58 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Might be just the DAG on the secondary blades, but as the photo shows indirect light, the gap/axial clearance is rather large.
The primary is however clearly worn, though the light makes it impossible to see on that pic. It's got the same wear as Phil (Jagdpanzer) had, just not quite as bad.

Throttle Body Primary Blade wear issue
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps6zjhkzli.jpg


I've got a bottle of Molycote D321r laying around (DAG), but I'll leave it on the counter until I've seen what Marc can do with it.

S.hafsmo 03-20-2018 11:54 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Slightly warmer today, allowing some minor progress. Need expert opinions on the condition of the clutch/PP/Flywheel condition. Thoughts?

The clutch plate measures approx. 6.5mm thickness. Whats the thickness of a new plate?

Couldn't really see too many signs of the pilot bearing rotating inside the crank, and throwout bearing feels surprisingly good. Nice and tight.

There is no play between the masses of the flywheel, but it does allow about 1/2" movement between them, some force required.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/TEMSRN.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/GKQvd7.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/tJYN8i.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/i0VEW1.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/ab3e8a.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/CC022y.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/PzDQsH.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/aYy0bi.jpg

S.hafsmo 03-21-2018 03:31 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Expert opinion received from Bill Boudreau,

Quote:

Hi Steffen,

The outer region of the clutch disc friction surface is considerably more worn compared to the inner, judging by the gassing groove depth tapering to outer . The gassing groove starts out even depth inner to outer when disc is new.

Good pictures by the way.

The pressure plate and flywheel I’ve seen look worse than yours and still operate just fine. Use maroon scotch-brite pads by hand only to remove surface glaze, replace the disc and install a fluted pilot bushing (GM P/N 10125896) inset 14 mm and absolutely do not apply grease in the pilot bushing. Doing so will cause the oil saturated pilot bushing to fail almost immediately. The throw-out bearing and pressure plate should be good for another 150K - 200K miles.

I have new Valeo solid hub clutch discs but they are too thick requiring 0.020” washers installed between the pressure plate and flywheel for compensation height to allow proper clutch modulation action. 0.320” disc thickness is ideal if you can find a new one at that thickness.

Ccmano 03-21-2018 11:18 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Your 6.5mm disc thickness translates to .255 inches. As Bill notes .320 is the standard for a new disc. As I understand it minimum thickness is .230. So your disc is about done.

Will you simply replace the disc or will you take the opportunity to install a light weight flywheel and sprung hub disc?
H
:cheers:

S.hafsmo 03-21-2018 01:13 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
The disc seems to be due for replacement, yes. It seems Bill has faith in the pressure plate and TO bearing, but he dares not give an estimate on the remaining life span of the DM flywheel.

Light flywheel is not an option for me. I've gone that way before on another project, and I regretted it ever since. The rattle and loss of driveability is just not worth it. I see Jerry's has a couple DM flywheels left, and I must say it's tempting, but it's not a cheap option. Right now I'm just looking to see if I can find all the right parts and their price, to estimate a total cost.
The OEM clutch disc also seems hard to find.

S.hafsmo 04-04-2018 09:08 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Got the TB back from Haibeck this week, and it's obvious that there is just so much one can do when the blades are getting worn. You can still see right past the blades close to the shafts. Maybe I'll have to attack it with the Molycote D321-R as well, to Band-Aid the lost DAG. TPS had also gotten damaged during shipping back to me, so I'll need to replace and calibrate that one as well.
Too bad, really, as I was hoping for some kind of magical repair resulting in a perfect seal. Maybe one has to go for the 63mm blades?

A26B 04-04-2018 10:30 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.hafsmo (Post 276975)
Got the TB back from Haibeck this week, and it's obvious that there is just so much one can do when the blades are getting worn. You can still see right past the blades close to the shafts. Maybe I'll have to attack it with the Molycote D321-R as well, to Band-Aid the lost DAG. TPS had also gotten damaged during shipping back to me, so I'll need to replace and calibrate that one as well.
Too bad, really, as I was hoping for some kind of magical repair resulting in a perfect seal. Maybe one has to go for the 63mm blades?

Greg VanDeventer can repair just about any problem on a throttle body, including making new blades ranging from stock to 63mm & any size in between, shaft bushings, boring the T-body itself, etc. Personally, I would do the repairs before going through the molycoat/DAG process. Your T-body likely needs more attention than that.

S.hafsmo 04-04-2018 10:50 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
I am rather upset with myself for not knowing of this gentlemen you mention, before I spent over $600 (incl. $150 in shipping) to repair the TB. What a waste..

How can I get in touch with Mr. VanDeventer?

A26B 04-04-2018 12:35 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.hafsmo (Post 276980)
I am rather upset with myself for not knowing of this gentlemen you mention, before I spent over $600 (incl. $150 in shipping) to repair the TB. What a waste..

How can I get in touch with Mr. VanDeventer?

Marc does excellent work & is highly respected in the ZR-1 community. Please do not take my suggestion wrong. I had no idea that you had Marc do a rebuild on your throttle body. You should contact Marc with your concerns. I have no doubt he will address them to your satisfaction.

S.hafsmo 04-04-2018 12:53 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the work Marc did on the TB, and it may very well be that the blades seal enough for the IAC to control the idle, if no other leaks are present. I'm sure he would've told me if he actually thought further work was necessary.

I probably failed to inform him of the extent of repair I was looking for.
He has been vastly helpful throughout my restoration project, and I don't really wish to bother him any more with it.

XfireZ51 04-04-2018 01:20 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
I doubt Marc considers it a bother.

LGAFF 04-04-2018 06:39 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
I have some original throttle plates

S.hafsmo 05-16-2018 11:00 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Now that I have my ZF laying on the workbench, is there anything else I should look at while "in there"? I've already checked the back-up light switch for proper movement, and plan to freshen up the ground points where the wires collect on the back of the engine. The transmission will be installed with fresh oil and new drain/fill plugs (vw brand). Drive shaft is getting new joints.

Ccmano 05-20-2018 08:49 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Think about replacing the tail shaft seal and check the yolk to the driveshaft for play on the output shaft splines. ZF Doc has the specs for yolk play on his site. That said, unless it’s very high mile car, has been abused or both it’s unlikely the yolk will be an issue.
H
:cheers:

S.hafsmo 05-21-2018 12:55 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Thanks Hans, I'll check the specs.
Car's got 70k miles.

JThomas 05-22-2018 09:57 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.hafsmo (Post 254823)
Much appreciated!
Have you got a forum thread on your's?

Sorry i never responded to your inquiry. No I don't have a forum thread but some of the same players are involved. I had a transmission built by Bill Boudreau, and Marc Haibeck gave advice on proper clutch, pressure plate, etc. Marc also refinished the top end of the motor in a bright silver powder coat. New brakes and rotors, wheels and tires and a '94 exhaust was installed. Car was repainted Mellon Copper Metallic and I had the seats redone. A few minor details to do and I should be all set for Carlisle this summer. I have problems posting pictures to this forum so I have posted some on Corvetteforum and CorvetteActionCenter.

S.hafsmo 05-23-2018 01:35 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Is this the one?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...1-update-1.jpg
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...1-update-2.jpg

If so, the car looks great. Love the color. I really would've loved to have the top end re-painted as well, but not sure who I would trust with such a task on this side of the Atlantic.

JThomas 05-23-2018 09:00 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.hafsmo (Post 279517)
Is this the one?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...1-update-1.jpg
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...1-update-2.jpg

If so, the car looks great. Love the color. I really would've loved to have the top end re-painted as well, but not sure who I would trust with such a task on this side of the Atlantic.

Yes that is my car, it has been a lot of fun. I forgot to mention Jerry Downey also contributed. A little more interior work and I’m done.

XfireZ51 05-23-2018 09:07 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Joe,

Good to see u back in a ZR. U should come to Haibeck’s this Sunday.

JThomas 05-23-2018 09:19 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by XfireZ51 (Post 279526)
Joe,

Good to see u back in a ZR. U should come to Haibeck’s this Sunday.

Dom:

I have it on my calendar, but if I come over I will either drive the ‘12 or my daily driver. Got the seats back out of the ZR-1 in preparation of a modification.

S.hafsmo 05-26-2018 03:11 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JThomas (Post 279525)
Yes that is my car, it has been a lot of fun. I forgot to mention Jerry Downey also contributed. A little more interior work and I’m done.

Gorgeous beast. Curious to se your interior mods when complete.

I'll finally be able to make som progress myself, as I've just received some parts from Jerry and Kurt White.

Complete NOS clutch kit. DM Flywheel from Jerrys. Throw out bearing, pressure plate (deep dish) and clutch disc from Kurt.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/Mie98H.jpg

Can't wait for work to commence on my new garage. The old one is getting rather cramped.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/YaOPKd.jpg

Z51JEFF 05-26-2018 09:57 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JThomas (Post 279525)
Yes that is my car, it has been a lot of fun. I forgot to mention Jerry Downey also contributed. A little more interior work and I’m done.

That is a gorgeous car and the color match is dead on. It’s a shame GM didn’t get this color on a Z.

JThomas 05-28-2018 07:47 PM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Z51JEFF (Post 279662)
That is a gorgeous car and the color match is dead on. It’s a shame GM didn’t get this color on a Z.

Thanks! Nothing special with the interior, just freshening it up, this project was all about the exterior color and keeping the car alive. When I purchased it, it was pretty "worn".

S.hafsmo 05-29-2018 04:27 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Are you replacing the foam/leather on the seats yourself?

JThomas 05-29-2018 07:36 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Yes, I purchased the seat covers through Corvette America and ordered their foam kit also. The foam and covers were installed by a shop recommended by my painter. The seats turned out great. The foam is more dense than the factory foam, especially after 27 years, but they are comfortable and look fantastic.

S.hafsmo 05-29-2018 08:12 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Do you have any pics of the seats as they are now? I bought my stuff from Corvette Central and wasn't really satisfied with either the foam or the leather. I think I posted som pics of them somewhere in this thread.

Ccmano 05-29-2018 10:42 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.hafsmo (Post 279646)
Gorgeous beast. Curious to se your interior mods when complete.

I'll finally be able to make som progress myself, as I've just received some parts from Jerry and Kurt White.

Complete NOS clutch kit. DM Flywheel from Jerrys. Throw out bearing, pressure plate (deep dish) and clutch disc from Kurt.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/Mie98H.jpg

Can't wait for work to commence on my new garage. The old one is getting rather cramped.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/YaOPKd.jpg

You actually ordered and received parts from Kurt White! Your a brave man! Looks like good stuff though. No doubt pricy as all things from Kurt are.
H
:cheers:

S.hafsmo 05-29-2018 10:57 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Pricey indeed. The man has a few to many balls in the air at once, so persistence is necessary to acquire parts from him. He is however still in business, and has quite a lot of unique parts in store.

Must say I was quite relieved to open the parcel and find exactly what I had ordered. He gets alot of poor feedback, but (knock on wood) I've yet to have a bad experience purchasing from him.

S.hafsmo 05-30-2018 02:30 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Do you install the rubber boot on the transmission tunnel first, and then bolt it on to the transmission once it's installed?

Ccmano 05-30-2018 10:29 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by S.hafsmo (Post 279822)
Do you install the rubber boot on the transmission tunnel first, and then bolt it on to the transmission once it's installed?

The rubber boot mounts to the transmission. I always found it easier to install it on the trans first and mount the trans with boot into the car. Could be done either way I suppose.
H
:cheers:

S.hafsmo 05-30-2018 11:02 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
The only issue I can imagine, would be wrapping the boot over it's locator frame on the driver's side. Seem to remember it was a rather tight fit? But if you say it's possible I'll just leave the boot on the tranny.

XfireZ51 05-30-2018 11:04 AM

Re: 90 ZR-1 #2273 - To be rescued
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JThomas (Post 279762)
Yes, I purchased the seat covers through Corvette America and ordered their foam kit also. The foam and covers were installed by a shop recommended by my painter. The seats turned out great. The foam is more dense than the factory foam, especially after 27 years, but they are comfortable and look fantastic.

Joe’s seats looked awesome. Better than new.


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