No start weirdness - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

8cam · 05-19-2016

I know there's a million posts on no start, make it a million and one. I'm thinking relay, but won't get a chance to dig in until this weekend.

So the last several weeks I've noticed something strange. If the car sits for more than a day, I get a _pause_ when turning the key...1...2...START. Once the starter turns, it fires right up. However if I drive it every day, it turns instantly on the key and starts, no pause.

Then this past Tuesday morning I was in Bowling Green (yeah a week late) at a hotel. I didn't drive it on Monday (rode with cohorts) so it had sat there for a day since my Sunday arrival. I turned the key and the expected pause...and nothing. Dash lit up, everything else good, but absolutely nothing else, no click, no nothing. Tried again, holding in start position for several seconds, and nothing. Tried a third time and after the 1...2...pause, turned over and started right up. Whew, I was able to drive back home. During the 5 hour trip home, I stopped twice for gas and dinner, and both times it started instantly.

Brain says I've got a starter relay dying slowly, but real world testing won't commence until Saturday. I've seen the relay mod and it looks good too. Any thoughts?

Racinfan83 · 05-19-2016

Well as most on here know - I don't drive mine much. Sits in the garage on a tender all the time and I start it once every 3 or 4 weeks in summer and never for months at a time in winter. I have NEVER had the no start except once. Last year I drove it like 10 miles to a club event and came back out and everything lit up but no click no nothing from starter. About 4 guys got me rolling and it pop started right up in 1st gear. Got home and shut it off. Started right up. And the next couple times.
Being "stranded" once is one time too many for me. Hate that especially in the Z which no way in he!! am I gonna leave it sit outside overnight in a strip mall parking lot. SO - I did Dynomites relay mod and put a new battery in the car. Not sure exactly which one worked - but knocking on wood no problems since doing that. The battery and relay was easy to do. And with the relay in there I know if it DOES happen again I'm going digging for the starter as most everything else is eliminated.

32valvesftw · 05-19-2016

I'm thinking you may have a battery drain, try disconnecting the battery next time you leave it over night and see if the symptoms change. I had that issue on a 64 Belaire it was very frustrating.

8cam · 05-20-2016

I'll put a meter on the battery and see, but I don't think that's the issue. Because once the starter decides to engage, it's immediate and full strength. There's just this pause between turning the ignition to Start, and whenever the circuits decide to finally close. I have to drive downtown this afternoon. I think I'll make sure to park where I can push start if I have to!

RussMcB · 05-20-2016

A quick, somewhat easy thing you can do this weekend to buy some time ...

Find the wire going to the starter, splice into it with a length of thick gauge wire that will reach the battery's positive post. Then, if you have some sort of problem (with the relay, VATS, ignition switch, clutch switch, whatever), you can use the wire to turn the starter to get you going. Rememember to set the parking brake and put the car in neutral.

That worked for me until I had time to do the Relay Mod. I haven't had any starting problems since doing the relay mod (but the emergency wire is still there in case I need it).

Paul Workman · 05-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8cam

I'll put a meter on the battery and see, but I don't think that's the issue. Because once the starter decides to engage, it's immediate and full strength. There's just this pause between turning the ignition to Start, and whenever the circuits decide to finally close. I have to drive downtown this afternoon. I think I'll make sure to park where I can push start if I have to!

Russ makes a good point.

My clutch safety switch produced the same symptoms as yours; would take a moment before it would make contact and activate the starter. Sometimes pumping the clutch pedal and holding it down would get me by...for a while. But, in the end I verified it was the clutch switch and not something else, I took the easy way out and bypassed the dang thing. (One less "nanny" feature).

But, Marc provided this schematic at BG a couple years ago that has some very useful info on it for running down the NO START fault issues.

One other Achilles heel I experienced was the high current contacts in the starter solenoid. $6.xx for new ones at 40k miles fixed it, and not a problem since.

Well, keep us in the loop, Mark!

Paul.

ghlkal · 05-21-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

My clutch safety switch produced the same symptoms as yours; would take a moment before it would make contact and activate the starter. Sometimes pumping the clutch pedal and holding it down would get me by...for a while. But, in the end I verified it was the clutch switch and not something else, I took the easy way out and bypassed the dang thing. (One less "nanny" feature).

FWIW, this was exactly my issue also. I haven't had a problem since bypassing the clutch switch.

YMMV

8cam · 05-25-2016

We're in the middle of rehabbing a rental property and that killed my weekend, so no progress yet. I'm still driving it every day with no issues, so I'm not sure yet what's going on. The last couple days I have been extra careful to fully depress the clutch pedal, and it's started bang-on every time. Hopefully this weekend will be more Corvette friendly.

boyking · 05-29-2016

I have an occasional 'no start' issue, and through the helpful folks on this forum, learned about the clutch safety switch bypass trick. I made a lovely lugged jumper and carry a small ratchet and appropriate metric socket to drop the knee panel, install the jumper and start my 1991 ZR-1. Then I drive home, pull the jumper, and put the lower dash panel back on. Drives me insane not to have everything work like it should be.

Since I know that is my issue, I want to replace the switch. Aside from the absolutely horrible location, I haven't found a new switch for a 1991 ZR-1. One major retailer that rhymes with 'Eckler's', has a switch for 1991 Corvettes, but it states, "this part does not fit ZR-1". Looks like mine, but I haven't purchased it. So my question; does anyone make the clutch safety switch for a 1991 ZR-1, or is there a cross-reference to the same part in a different car? Can an unreliable switch be refurbished to function?

Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but this certainly could be your issue also.

Thanks for any help.

John

8cam · 05-30-2016

I got to spend some time in the garage yesterday and did a little troubleshooting on this, only to find absolutely nothing. When I replaced the clutch master I checked the safety switch and it seems fine. I did adjust it a bit because I think it was a little too far off the pedal, but otherwise nothing. I'll be working on it a little more today and will check a few other things.

05-19-2016	#1
8cam Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta Posts: 451	No start weirdness I know there's a million posts on no start, make it a million and one. I'm thinking relay, but won't get a chance to dig in until this weekend. So the last several weeks I've noticed something strange. If the car sits for more than a day, I get a _pause_ when turning the key...1...2...START. Once the starter turns, it fires right up. However if I drive it every day, it turns instantly on the key and starts, no pause. Then this past Tuesday morning I was in Bowling Green (yeah a week late) at a hotel. I didn't drive it on Monday (rode with cohorts) so it had sat there for a day since my Sunday arrival. I turned the key and the expected pause...and nothing. Dash lit up, everything else good, but absolutely nothing else, no click, no nothing. Tried again, holding in start position for several seconds, and nothing. Tried a third time and after the 1...2...pause, turned over and started right up. Whew, I was able to drive back home. During the 5 hour trip home, I stopped twice for gas and dinner, and both times it started instantly. Brain says I've got a starter relay dying slowly, but real world testing won't commence until Saturday. I've seen the relay mod and it looks good too. Any thoughts? __________________ Mark '90 ZR-1 #1322 Daily Driver, 64k and counting Black/Gray [IMG]http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/IMG_0326_zps3d50d8cb.jpg[/IMG]

05-19-2016	#2
Racinfan83 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Eastern Missouri Posts: 773	Re: No start weirdness Well as most on here know - I don't drive mine much. Sits in the garage on a tender all the time and I start it once every 3 or 4 weeks in summer and never for months at a time in winter. I have NEVER had the no start except once. Last year I drove it like 10 miles to a club event and came back out and everything lit up but no click no nothing from starter. About 4 guys got me rolling and it pop started right up in 1st gear. Got home and shut it off. Started right up. And the next couple times. Being "stranded" once is one time too many for me. Hate that especially in the Z which no way in he!! am I gonna leave it sit outside overnight in a strip mall parking lot. SO - I did Dynomites relay mod and put a new battery in the car. Not sure exactly which one worked - but knocking on wood no problems since doing that. The battery and relay was easy to do. And with the relay in there I know if it DOES happen again I'm going digging for the starter as most everything else is eliminated. __________________ [LEFT][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/LEFT] [CENTER][COLOR=Indigo][SIZE=4][I][B] Now Sold 1990 ZR-1 #2093, Black on Black..[/B][/I][/SIZE][/COLOR][/CENTER]

05-19-2016	#3
32valvesftw Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Texas Posts: 530	Re: No start weirdness I'm thinking you may have a battery drain, try disconnecting the battery next time you leave it over night and see if the symptoms change. I had that issue on a 64 Belaire it was very frustrating.

05-20-2016	#4
8cam Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta Posts: 451	Re: No start weirdness I'll put a meter on the battery and see, but I don't think that's the issue. Because once the starter decides to engage, it's immediate and full strength. There's just this pause between turning the ignition to Start, and whenever the circuits decide to finally close. I have to drive downtown this afternoon. I think I'll make sure to park where I can push start if I have to! __________________ Mark '90 ZR-1 #1322 Daily Driver, 64k and counting Black/Gray [IMG]http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/IMG_0326_zps3d50d8cb.jpg[/IMG]

05-20-2016	#5
RussMcB Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Marietta, GA USA Posts: 1,160	Re: No start weirdness A quick, somewhat easy thing you can do this weekend to buy some time ... Find the wire going to the starter, splice into it with a length of thick gauge wire that will reach the battery's positive post. Then, if you have some sort of problem (with the relay, VATS, ignition switch, clutch switch, whatever), you can use the wire to turn the starter to get you going. Rememember to set the parking brake and put the car in neutral. That worked for me until I had time to do the Relay Mod. I haven't had any starting problems since doing the relay mod (but the emergency wire is still there in case I need it).

05-25-2016	#8
8cam Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta Posts: 451	Re: No start weirdness We're in the middle of rehabbing a rental property and that killed my weekend, so no progress yet. I'm still driving it every day with no issues, so I'm not sure yet what's going on. The last couple days I have been extra careful to fully depress the clutch pedal, and it's started bang-on every time. Hopefully this weekend will be more Corvette friendly. __________________ Mark '90 ZR-1 #1322 Daily Driver, 64k and counting Black/Gray [IMG]http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/IMG_0326_zps3d50d8cb.jpg[/IMG]

05-29-2016	#9
boyking Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: New York State Posts: 42	Re: No start weirdness I have an occasional 'no start' issue, and through the helpful folks on this forum, learned about the clutch safety switch bypass trick. I made a lovely lugged jumper and carry a small ratchet and appropriate metric socket to drop the knee panel, install the jumper and start my 1991 ZR-1. Then I drive home, pull the jumper, and put the lower dash panel back on. Drives me insane not to have everything work like it should be. Since I know that is my issue, I want to replace the switch. Aside from the absolutely horrible location, I haven't found a new switch for a 1991 ZR-1. One major retailer that rhymes with 'Eckler's', has a switch for 1991 Corvettes, but it states, "this part does not fit ZR-1". Looks like mine, but I haven't purchased it. So my question; does anyone make the clutch safety switch for a 1991 ZR-1, or is there a cross-reference to the same part in a different car? Can an unreliable switch be refurbished to function? Don't want to hi-jack the thread, but this certainly could be your issue also. Thanks for any help. John

05-30-2016	#10
8cam Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta Posts: 451	Re: No start weirdness I got to spend some time in the garage yesterday and did a little troubleshooting on this, only to find absolutely nothing. When I replaced the clutch master I checked the safety switch and it seems fine. I did adjust it a bit because I think it was a little too far off the pedal, but otherwise nothing. I'll be working on it a little more today and will check a few other things. __________________ Mark '90 ZR-1 #1322 Daily Driver, 64k and counting Black/Gray [IMG]http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/IMG_0326_zps3d50d8cb.jpg[/IMG]