Is anyone using Royal Purple?

[Chris_32212]

i am curious if anyone uses royal purple in the motor. swapping to synthetic trans and diff fluid can net some hp and i am just curious if anyone has done it. the GM part number for our trans fluid cross references to Royal Purple 5w30 XPR fluid (Extreme Performance Race). they also have a comperable synthetic gear oil. i talked to Bill B. and he said he didn't reccomend royal purple in the ZF trans simply because he doesn't have any experience with it. he gave me a part number for a german made trans fluid that is only available at BMW dealerships and he raves about how good it is but i am curious if it provides the HP gain that royal purple probably does. i know we are only talking a mabey a few hp for just the trans fluid but hey, every little bit helps right? let me know your thoughts on this.

Chris

[PhillipsLT5]

stay with bmw trans fluid
see
www.zfdoc.com

[Chris_32212]

i already know that thats the popular fluid... im not saying i am going to use royal purple. i just want to know if anybody has.

Chris

[tomtom72]

I can not comment on the oil as I've been a M1 10w-30 + Zddp, BMW TWS 10w-60 trans, GM stuff + 2x GM additive in the gear guy in my 90 for five yrs. Prior to that the orig owner just changed the motor oil & coolant. He only put 7400 miles on the car in 14.5 yrs so he never messed with anything else.

The one thing I can say is there have been the odd thread here and at CF about the use of other trans fluids and failures. I can't say that you can find any direct links to the failures and the oil used.....but it's just curious that all the failures seem to just have one common factor....which fluid was used. Now, I say "seem" because I've never read any of those threads about ZF failure where any other contributing factor was mentioned. You know like I've never seen any one post up that they neglected their clutch hyd. system, or that they drag race and don't use the clutch to shift, or that they road race and use the zf like a crash box, or that the C-beam was out of alignment, or any other factor that would account for a zf failure. The only two, well three if you count customer abuse, reasons for zf failure that I've seen posted about are: I didn't use the GM or the Castrol/BMW stuff, and reverse/sixth gear welded itself to the output shaft(?). I'm not clear about what exactly is with sixth/reverse....something about an internal lack of oiling as a design flaw from the factory????

I'm just saying in my 5 yrs of being a member of the registry this is what I've seen posted up about zf's and failures. The only other thing that I know for sure is that in the second owner's manual (the one in the pizza box) it says that if you are going to "drive your ZR-1 enthuiastically, you should switch all your fluids to synthetics.". That is in my 90's other owner's manual....at the time I know that the OEM fluids were all non-synthetic fluids.

Okay, I'll admit another thing.....I can't afford to have a trans failure, or any other major failures, so I use what seems to be the popular lube that seems to have no premature failures associated with it. My brain tells me that even with all synthetic fluids in my 90, I would only realize any performance gain if I put the car on a chassis dyno. Driving it on the street I'm sure my 'butt dyno' wouldn't know the difference, JMHO on the performance gains part. I use the synthetics because I think they protect my drivetrain better than dino based lubes, again JMHO.

:cheers:
Tom

[Aurora40]

i am curious if anyone uses royal purple in the motor. swapping to synthetic trans and diff fluid can net some hp and i am just curious if anyone has done it.
I would bet most of us use synthetic motor oil, trans fluid, and diff fluid. It just doesn't generally happen to be Royal Purple for said fluids. :)

And I agree with Tom. Personally I'll go with the safe play vs the one that isn't. Even though something else may work just fine or better. So for now it's Redline oil (full of ZDDP yumminess), Castrol trans fluid, and Mobil 1 diff fluid. I keep thinking I should go to M1 high mileage engine oil, as it has the "normal" amount of ZDDP and is cheaper, but something about that "high mileage" in a 40,000 mile car that I can't explain bugs me...

[jonszr1]

i have 4000 reasons to use the bmw 0-06 that bill recommends. i had the 6th gear reverse weld problem in my blk car. if i lose a few hp to not have 4000 dead presidents leave my pocket again its good by me

[jonszr1]

opps it castrol 0-60

[PhillipsLT5]

see
www.zr1specialist.com
for motor oil
Amsoil 10/40

[Chris_32212]

is the castrol and BMW trans fluid synthetic? i would venture to guess that it is but does anyone know for sure?

Chris

[Aurora40]

is the castrol and BMW trans fluid synthetic? i would venture to guess that it is but does anyone know for sure?

Chris
Yes, it is synthetic.

[Bob G]

I Used Torco Mtf Synthetic In My Trans It Didn't Work The Trans Started grinding on The Shifts changed Back To Gm And Grinding Stoped. I Think The Torco Was To Slippery And Wouldn't Let The Syncros GrabThe Gear To Slow it Down Enough
Bob

[lbszr]

Here's two 10w-60 castrol reports in the zf6 with 9000 miles on the oil.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z41/myphotos123456/File0292.jpg


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z41/myphotos123456/d11828jq4.jpg

[lbszr]

The zinc and phosphorus is lower in one report than the other. Don't know if it's cause one report is older than the other and it might be after the time a lot of manufactures lowered the levels cause of the tree huggers. Or maybe just not accurate tests for some reason.:dontknow:

[WB9MCW]

stay with bmw trans fluid
see
www.zfdoc.com

FROM THE ZF DOCTOR SITE >>>

(Q.) I just bought, at the local BMW dealership, 3 liters of the Castrol TWS 10W60 oil. I was surprised to see that it is motor oil. Not being a lubrication engineer myself, who did the investigation and determination that this product is compatible with and good for our ZF transmissions? Jim – Grand Sport Registry

(A.) Jim, the C4 Corvette ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission uses engine oil for lubrication. I was told by Jeff Henning, Warranty Administrator of ZF Industries North America, that Engineering of ZF Industries in Germany determined that the BMW imported Castrol (RS superseded by TWS) 10W-60 oil was the recommended alternative to the (GM P/N 1052931) factory-fill oil for use in the ZF S6-40 transmission. In effort to verify ZF Industries alternative lubricant recommendation, we ran our own test series on the BMW imported Castrol TWS 10W-60 oil. Independent testing of the transmission oil samples was sub-contracted out to CTC Analytical Services. The test series went as follows:
<1> Spectrographic analysis indicated that it is has full synthetic composition.
<2> After 2 hours of operation, approximately 100 miles, oil sample analysis tests indicated that the viscosity rating was reduced from 60 down to a 43 level. No need to worry, this is a normal occurrence for this heavier type of oil. I attribute this to microscopic-level lubricant-strand trimming through operational loading where all of the oil contents has been passed through gear pressure-loading regions at least a few times.
<3> At 200 miles, the viscosity level stabilized at a 42 level viscosity since the 100 mile oil analysis test results.
<4> At 5000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 40 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 4% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent)
gap wear/mass measurements.
<5> At 10,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 39 level viscosity.
<6> At 12,500 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 37 level viscosity.
<7> At 15,000 miles, the oil analysis test results indicated a 34 level viscosity.
The test-transmission was again completely disassembled and checked for wear. There were no signs of carbon film like experienced with the factory-fill 30 oil. The phosphor-bronze lined synchronizers had no glazing and experienced an average mass loss of approximately 17% based on reserve-wear-range mass equivalency between 0.062"(new) and 0.048"(spent) gap wear/mass measurements.
<8> At 15,000 miles the oil had enough phosphor-bronze particles suspended
in it that deposits began building up inside of the synchronizer sliding
sleeves from the normal centrifuge-like rotational occurrence.
In Conclusion, until someone invents a copper magnet, we recommend that the ZF S6-40 6-speed transmission oil be changed at 10,000 - 12,000 mile intervals so as to minimize the amount of deposits of the suspended spent synchronizer material from collecting in critical component contact surface areas.

:thumbsup:

[WB9MCW]

see
www.zr1specialist.com
for motor oil
Amsoil 10/40

This is the PDF link from the site >>> http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/Modern%20Motor%20Oil%20and%20the%20LT5%20Engine.pd f

:thumbsup:

[rhipsher]

I've used Amsoil and Royal purple at different times. And I know Corey Henderson pushes the Amsoil. I'm sticking with Royal purple. I drove 3000 miles using Amsoil and did an oil change and did the same using Royal purple. And I noticed while doing an oil change after 3000 miles on Royal purple my oil was was much cleaner draining out of the oil pan than when I used Amsoil. When you start talking about Red line, Amsoil and Royal purple, they are all top of the line sythetic oils. But what the oil looks like when it drains out of the oil pan tells you something. You can split hairs if you want.

[Chris_32212]

I've used Amsoil and Royal purple at different times. And I know Corey Henderson pushes the Amsoil. I'm sticking with Royal purple. I drove 3000 miles using Amsoil and did an oil change and did the same using Royal purple. And I noticed while doing an oil change after 3000 miles on Royal purple my oil was was much cleaner draining out of the oil pan than when I used Amsoil. When you start talking about Red line, Amsoil and Royal purple, they are all top of the line sythetic oils. But what the oil looks like when it drains out of the oil pan tells you something. You can split hairs if you want.

AH.. thank you. finally a response to my question. (the information that was posted about the other oils is appreciated but it really had little to do with the why i started this thread.) i am assuming you are referring to using Royal Purple in the motor only. is that correct? how about the transmission fluid or rear diff?

Chris

[flyin ryan]

i've used the Grape Juice but i'm not a big fan, personally. i might have mentioned it on here, can't remember for sure, but in early Sept. i went to a seminar put on by Joe Gibbs Racing oil & hosted by Lake Speed Jr. it was really good. cleared up some myths. i'd loved to get into it but i'd be here all day. if anybody ever has a chance to go that seminar, do it!

[rhipsher]

AH.. thank you. finally a response to my question. (the information that was posted about the other oils is appreciated but it really had little to do with the why i started this thread.) i am assuming you are referring to using Royal Purple in the motor only. is that correct? how about the transmission fluid or rear diff?

Chris
Just the engine so far. There are alot of very sharp people on this site and their answers can be quite detailed and packed with to much information for some. If I switched motor oil every time somebody told me there was a better oil, I would have had every brand they make circulated through my Z by now. I've drag raced it. And I've road raced it at speeds around 180mph for long peiods of time and Royal purple has performed just fine. And thats about all I can tell you man.:cheers:

[WB9MCW]

It would be interesting to see the wear scar diameter data on a Shell 4 ball test with the grape juice to see how it stacks up against the competition. At 0.4mm it might be hard to beat out Amsoil. Marc H usually has done all the homework b4 he makes an endorsement.

Does RP make it in a 10W-40?

In my 502 blower motor in my speedboat we did note better psi on the gauge and faster recovery on the gauge (PSI wise) after a hard run with Amsoil vs Gold Cap Moble 1. So pretty happy with the A brand in the boat. Figure I will go with the A next oil change in the Z.

--JMO --

After all the forum is for discussion of the ideas/experiences we all have/had no matter what the brand or preference!

Knowledge is POWER

[PhillipsLT5]

Marc & Corey KNOW
Marc is showing the data
Use what you want

[Chris_32212]

It would be interesting to see the wear scar diameter data on a Shell 4 ball test with the grape juice to see how it stacks up against the competition. At 0.4mm it might be hard to beat out Amsoil. Marc H usually has done all the homework b4 he makes an endorsement.

Does RP make it in a 10W-40?

In my 502 blower motor in my speedboat we did note better psi on the gauge and faster recovery on the gauge (PSI wise) after a hard run with Amsoil vs Gold Cap Moble 1. So pretty happy with the A brand in the boat. Figure I will go with the A next oil change in the Z.

--JMO --

After all the forum is for discussion of the ideas/experiences we all have/had no matter what the brand or preference!

Knowledge is POWER

not sure what your refering to with the Shell 4 ball test... also any test that didn't use RP's cross referenced fluid would be invalid data as far as i am concerned. i watched a demenstration on the production of RP fluid and they go to great lengths to ensure quality but its all for nothing if you do not use the right fluid for the application. i have owned my Z barely less then a year and i still have a lot to learn but what i know for sure is that i have seen other types of cars switch ALL fluids to RP and gain 13RWHP. i have never seen or heard of someone doing that with Amsoil, castrol, or granny goose's special sauce. 13RWHP is a noticable gain folks, even on the butt dyno.

Chris

[Chris_32212]

Marc & Corey KNOW
Marc is showing the data
Use what you want

im not saying corey and marc dont know what they are talking about... far from it. what i am asking is "is anyone using royal purple?" and i will ask another question, can anyone show me data that royal purple is a mistake?

Chris

[jonszr1]

i cant show data but can show a burnt up rear end that had royal purple 75-90 in it . i have gone to the heavier royal purple stuff which is working fine . when it come to our trannies i will only use what bill boudreau says to use . but in the end its up to you

[rhipsher]

Yes RP comes in 10w-40. We had an Amsoil rep come to one of our corvette club meetings about 6 months ago. And he had all kinds of test data and charts comparing other oils to amsoil. And about 5 of use asked him why RP wasn't on that list and he realy didn't have an answere for it. So RP is either realy crapy oil or it's realy good and they don't want to show the test results. He said he use to work for RP and thought he realy liked it of course until he started working for Amsoil. "Do tell". There has to be a reason why RP wasn't on any of those compraison charts because every other oil mfg was. Even european oil mfg's I've never heard of were on it. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

[Chris_32212]

i cant show data but can show a burnt up rear end that had royal purple 75-90 in it . i have gone to the heavier royal purple stuff which is working fine . when it come to our trannies i will only use what bill boudreau says to use . but in the end its up to you


thanks for the info john. i have some RP 75-90 weight in the garage that i had planned on using but i will go get some heavier weight stuff.

Chris

[GregCrowe]

Royal Purple is not even API rated. Royal Purple is complete crap !!!! Avoid it.

Yes, your motor will make more hp because RP is so thin. Super thin oil is NOT a good thing in a high performance motor. Have you ever looked at used Royal Purple while it drains from a car? It's like water. It's very scary stuff. I would never run Royal Purple in anything I owned. About 10 years ago when they started pushing it around here at the local hot motorcycle shop, a bunch of sportbike racers started using it. That summer we saw motor failure after motor failure, all using Royal Purple. I put Royal Purple in my 1000cc Yamaha and destroyed a brand new clutch in one afternoon at the drag strip. The oil was used for only one day and it looked like water when I drained it out.

[Chris_32212]

how could eng oil or transmission oil be resposible for a clutch failure??? that doesn't even make sense!!! :blahblah:

Chris

[rhipsher]

Royal Purple is not even API rated. Royal Purple is complete crap !!!! Avoid it.

Yes, your motor will make more hp because RP is so thin. Super thin oil is NOT a good thing in a high performance motor. Have you ever looked at used Royal Purple while it drains from a car? It's like water. It's very scary stuff. I would never run Royal Purple in anything I owned. About 10 years ago when they started pushing it around here at the local hot motorcycle shop, a bunch of sportbike racers started using it. That summer we saw motor failure after motor failure, all using Royal Purple. I put Royal Purple in my 1000cc Yamaha and destroyed a brand new clutch in one afternoon at the drag strip. The oil was used for only one day and it looked like water when I drained it out.
When I had my GSXR1100 I never ever ran car oil in it. I ran motorcycle oil in it. I remember using Motul gold. I didn't think you were supposed to us car oil on a bike that revs up to 13,000rpm's. Correct me if I'm wrong. I use 5w-30 RP which is thicker.

[GregCrowe]

how could eng oil or transmission oil be resposible for a clutch failure??? that doesn't even make sense!!! :blahblah:

Chris

Simple, the engine oil in a motorcycle lubricates the clutch.

The only reason you are not supposed to run car oil in a motorcycle is because of the clutch. Certain synthetic car oils have certain "friction modifyers" that destroy a bike clutch. That's exactly what happened when I ran Royal Purple in my bike. Ever since that day I've been running Mobil One car oil 10W-30 in all my bikes. Mobil One does not have any of the nasty friction modifyers that destory a bike clutch.

[Chris_32212]

Simple, the engine oil in a motorcycle lubricates the clutch.

The only reason you are not supposed to run car oil in a motorcycle is because of the clutch. Certain synthetic car oils have certain "friction modifyers" that destroy a bike clutch. That's exactly what happened when I ran Royal Purple in my bike. Ever since that day I've been running Mobil One car oil 10W-30 in all my bikes. Mobil One does not have any of the nasty friction modifyers that destory a bike clutch.

so maybe you should use the right oil for your application instead of ripping on an oil that wasn't designed for what you were trying to use it for. just my $.02

Chris

[GregCrowe]

so maybe you should use the right oil for your application instead of ripping on an oil that wasn't designed for what you were trying to use it for. just my $.02

Chris

You might want to go back and read the part about engine failures running Royal Purple. That stuff has the consistancy of water. The fact that it doesn't even have an API rating should scare you enough. But what the hell, it's your car. Do what you want.

[Chris_32212]

You might want to go back and read the part about engine failures running Royal Purple. That stuff has the consistancy of water. The fact that it doesn't even have an API rating should scare you enough. But what the hell, it's your car. Do what you want.


i dont see any thing in this thread about engine failures and Royal Purple so i dont understand where you are saying i should go back and read... i just called royal purple to ask about the API rating and to get some answers about that but there is nobody there for tech support over the weekend. i will call monday morning and see what they have to say about API ratings.

Chris

[rhipsher]

Greg is right about engine oil lubricating the clutch on bikes. But this is the first time I've ever heard anything bad about Royal Purple. Mine never looked like water when draining into the oil pan. And I change my oil when the car is hot. And even after 20 minutes of draining it still draining out of there like hot syrup not water. So I would have to see some hard data on RP being the cause of engine failure before I would seriously question it. Until then it's just another opinion. Not only that Greg but I've been using it for the last 10 years on my Lincoln Continental and my Mazda 626 since they were new and they both have 150,000 miles on them now and they run great. So as far as it being crap! I don't know. All I have to go by is the last 10 years of using it. And 10 years of consistant use is enough time to know if it's garbage or not.

[GregCrowe]

i dont see any thing in this thread about engine failures and Royal Purple so i dont understand where you are saying i should go back and read... i just called royal purple to ask about the API rating and to get some answers about that but there is nobody there for tech support over the weekend. i will call monday morning and see what they have to say about API ratings.

Chris

Just checked out Royal Purple's website and apparently they now have API ratings. They didn't used to and always were raked over the coals for it. Good for them finally getting some ratings on their oil.

As far as engine failures, like I said previously, many sportbike racers around here experienced engine failures using Royal Purple. Now, this was like 8-10 years ago and back then the non-API rated Royal Purple had the consistency of water. I haven't looked at the stuff since then. Maybe it's improved ??? I'm a Mobil One man, have it in everything I own........... even my lawn mower.

[rhipsher]

There's nothing wrong with Modil 1. It's good stuff. Hey Greg is Motul still widely used in sport bikes today? The last time I had a Rice Rocket was in 1993 and it was very widely used and was $11.00 a quart even back then. I went on there website and their still there. And still very heavily into the sport bike and race car business.

[GregCrowe]

Yep, all that motorcycle oil is ridiculously expensive and they still try to scare you and tell you that you have to run motorcycle oil in your bike. As long as the car oil doesn't have any goofy friction modifyers (like Royal Purple), it's OK in your bike. I've been running Mobil One 10W-30 car oil in my bikes for 10 years now.

[Chris_32212]

well i am running Royal Purple (in the engine only) and have been for about three months. i drive my car hard very often. if and when i get pulled over in it next i will explain my driving behavior as part of my routine maintenance to remove carbon build up. lol. seriously though, i intentionally run it hard for that purpose and i have not had any issues. The oil pressures were unchanged with the switch to royal purple and i haven't noticed any ill effects. i am concerned about using it in the ZF transmission though and i probably wont unless someone has used it without any problems. i will use the RP 140w gear oil in the rear diff though as i got confirmation from someone running it without issue in their Z.

Chris

[rhipsher]

Yep, all that motorcycle oil is ridiculously expensive and they still try to scare you and tell you that you have to run motorcycle oil in your bike. As long as the car oil doesn't have any goofy friction modifyers (like Royal Purple), it's OK in your bike. I've been running Mobil One 10W-30 car oil in my bikes for 10 years now.
I've found a couple of websites on them with all the specs and API ratings and testamonials. But they look like they are designed for racing only. Not daily drivers.
http://www.eurosyntheticoils.com/
http://www.motul.com.au/

[Chris_32212]

i also know that royal purple makes more power because of its abillity to reduce friction. so these friction modifiers that i honestly have not heard about before, probably caused the clutch on your bike to slip far too much which (and im guessing here) is maybe what caused the clutch to fail in the bike. but the friction modifiers might likely be what allows for less friction in the motor which has the direct effect of using less power to rotate the internal components. using less power to rotate the internals results in more power available for other things. like dropping panties. lol. sorry, couldn't resist. lol. :cheers:

Chris