Stuck out with a no start.

[ZWILD1]

We went out for a ride and a bite to eat. Get in the car have full power to everything but no start. The security light doesn't stay on . Turn the key nothing at all.

[secondchance]

Keep an eye on voltage gauge as you turn the key to ignition. Does the needle dip? If yes, I would suspect corroded solenoid contact/plunger. If not, it might be VATS or clutch safety switch issue. Try starting again when the motor has cooled over night. If it does, again corroded solenoid would be suspect.

[Paul Workman]

What year car?

"No start"...??



the starter spins but motor will not start?
there is a "click" sound, but the starter does not turn?
....
....

[Hib Halverson]

We went out for a ride and a bite to eat. Get in the car have full power to everything but no start. The security light doesn't stay on . Turn the key nothing at all.


When you turn the key to "on" but not "start", does the IP go though "bulb check"?


Once you go to "start" do you hear anything...even a relay clicking?


Have you read the infomation in the service manual for a no start condition?

[lfalzarano]

We went out for a ride and a bite to eat. Get in the car have full power to everything but no start. The security light doesn't stay on . Turn the key nothing at all.



Wait 10 minutes and it will start. You can always push start it as experienced with my 90.


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Paul Workman]

IF it is a 90-92 Z, the clutch safety switch carries all of the current for the starter solenoid. Characteristic sign is there is no "click" from the starter when turning the ignition switch to START.

The other issue (common to the Denso starters) is the high current contacts actuated inside the starter by the solenoid. (Mine gave out at the 38k mile mark.) Apparently, it is a common problem b/c I often see the replacement kits in stock at various auto parts stores. The kit with the new contacts run less than $10 unless you get the bigger kit with the solenoid armature in it.

(BUT NOTE! Be very mindful of the thrust pin length is identical to the one it is replacing! If it is too short (or too long) it will misalign the Bendix gear resulting in less than full engagement of the (flywheel) ring gear and the ring gear can be damaged/destroyed.) The only wear on that armature to worry about is pitting on the copper contact (bridge) ring. A few minutes with some emery cloth/sand paper and it is good as new.

Oh! And, "while you're in there...", among other routine service/cleaning stuff, you might want to make sure the drain tube is clear (located under the rear side of the starter, next to the aluminum (block) wall). A thin wire to ream it out followed by a squirt of de-greaser does the trick. Also, it is a good time to check the torque of the Injector Housing bolts. A common problem is for them to work loose and allow oil to leak into the valley. I used BLUE Locktite on the threads and re-torque. Mine are still tight after 30k miles after becoming loose in the first 35k miles (when I bought the Z).

Anyway... I'm getting ahead of your problem - you don't know yet if the starter is even the issue. So, maybe ya just tuck this away for future reference (for you or anyone else following along). :cheers:

P.

[ZWILD1]

The car is a 91. When the key was advanced to the on position the center LCD came on. I turned the key to the start position and the LCD went totally out and no sounds of any kind. I tried my second set of keys incase the chip was not reading correctly. Still nothing. I lowered the driver side window , set the alarm, and reached inside opening the door. The alarm went off. I used the door key to turn the alarm off. I tried the ignition key again and still nothing. I checked over the fuses and everything was good. I decided to give Marc Haibeck a call and got one of his employees. After telling him about the car and what it was doing he said to advance the key to start and check to see if the interior lights dimmed showing a draw from the starter circuit. This time the car started right up like nothing was wrong. Drove home and parked it back in the garage. I tried it a few minutes later and it started fine. So that's where I'm at.

[Corvette95]

The car is a 91. When the key was advanced to the on position the center LCD came on. I turned the key to the start position and the LCD went totally out and no sounds of any kind. I tried my second set of keys incase the chip was not reading correctly. Still nothing. I lowered the driver side window , set the alarm, and reached inside opening the door. The alarm went off. I used the door key to turn the alarm off. I tried the ignition key again and still nothing. I checked over the fuses and everything was good. I decided to give Marc Haibeck a call and got one of his employees. After telling him about the car and what it was doing he said to advance the key to start and check to see if the interior lights dimmed showing a draw from the starter circuit. This time the car started right up like nothing was wrong. Drove home and parked it back in the garage. I tried it a few minutes later and it started fine. So that's where I'm at.

Heat soak on the starter. (drive the car about 20-30 minutes and get it hot, turn it off, let it sit 5 minutes and try to start it...likely will not start, but will start cold.)
If you haven't done the relay upgrade yet, I would do it because it will need it, if not now,...later, but sounds like it's time for a starter rebuild and valley cleanout.

[ZWILD1]

I was reading an old post about this on the Corvette Forum. They included links back here but they were no longer good. Instead of doing the 5 pin relay method I'd just as soon replace the starter. I have one I picked up for my other 91 Z but never used. That car never left me stranded. The only thing the previous owner did was a neutral safety bypass.

[Paul Workman]

Heat soak on the starter. (drive the car about 20-30 minutes and get it hot, turn it off, let it sit 5 minutes and try to start it...likely will not start, but will start cold.)
If you haven't done the relay upgrade yet, I would do it because it will need it, if not now,...later, but sounds like it's time for a starter rebuild and valley cleanout.

I've had that (heat soak) issue with a Delco Remy (GM starter) - once on my wife's '69 C3 in fact and once on a 427 El Camiino I had for a while. But, never heard of it with a Denso (ZR-1) starter. Clutch safety switch, yeah. And, the internal solenoid contacts ( a common Denso issue in fact), but no "heat soaked" Densos. Anybody else??

[secondchance]

I was reading an old post about this on the Corvette Forum. They included links back here but they were no longer good. Instead of doing the 5 pin relay method I'd just as soon replace the starter. I have one I picked up for my other 91 Z but never used. That car never left me stranded. The only thing the previous owner did was a neutral safety bypass.

David,

What you are describing is a classic symptom of solenoid contacts gone bad. Jim V. Has a few solenoid rebuild kit; I think. If you do replace the starter, don?t trash the old one.

[ZWILD1]

Is that what the whole relay circuit modification is correcting ? Is this what degrades over time causing the no start issue?

[Great White]

I had the exact same issue with my '92 after I got it. The problem was "finger tight" battery terminals.

[BigJohn]

It all depends on the fingers

[Great White]

It all depends on the fingers


Thanks for swinging at that one! Didn't even realize I left it hanging out there. :p

[Racinfan83]

I had that happen once. At a club meeting. Got 4 or 5 guys to push and it pop started. Got home and it started right up. Did the relay mod and never a problem since...

[Mystic ZR-1]

Big John can remove lugnuts using only his fingers!
Doesn't need a jack either! Holds the car up with one
hand and changes the tire with the other!
😀

[Paul Workman]

Is that what the whole relay circuit modification is correcting ? Is this what degrades over time causing the no start issue?

Yes. Prior to the 93 MY, the issue is the high current arcing in the clutch safety switch that erodes the contacts to the point where at first the switch becomes intermittent, and then finally inoperable.

The clutch safety switch is not an issue beginning with the 93 MY cars due to a circuit design change utilizing a relay to handle the current, so the 93+ cars seldom (if ever) have an issue with the clutch safety switch.

However, a relay can be installed in the 90-92 cars which provides the same relief to that safety switch as the 93+ cars enjoy by re-routing the high current carried by the purple wire from the safety switch through the contacts of a relay installed behind the battery compartment. The current from the safety switch activates the relay instead of the starter which greatly reduces the current/arching that was the issue with the 90-92 safety relays.

See attached...

.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Let's start here:

Try an alternate key.
I always keep a new spare hidden in the car just for such fun events.

Make sure if you have aftermarket floor mats that you try removing them when this happens to make sure that you are getting the clutch all of the way down to override the clutch safety switch.

Observe the volt meter when this occurs. Does the needle deflect when you go from run to start.
If it does not, then you are likely trapped in either the VATS protocol or the neutral / clutch switch protocol.
If it deflects then likely a starter issue.

If the clutch switch is the suspect, there is an override wiring procedure to update your 90.
Search the forum here and you will find it discussed.

If the key was the original culprit, likely still is until ruled out.

Then try this:

Check simple things first:
1- Make sure that if you have the usual logo replacement floor mats that are 3 times the thickness of the originals, that it indeed lets you depress the clutch pedal ALL of the way. Occasionally, the mat may slide forward and up, and while you think you are depressing it fully, you may be missing it by a little.


2- Check your battery connections. I know they LOOK tight, but grab the wrench and make sure that they ARE tight.


3- Battery? How old? On a Battery Tender? These cars are VERY sensitive to battery condition. If you have even mildly reduced voltage, strange things happen. Check it or charge it, then check it.


4- When you turn the key, observe if you have a deflection of the volt meter needle. It should move when you bump the key.
If you see no movement, you may not be getting by the clutch switch, the VATS, or the theft deterrent system.


Rule out the obvious and simple causes FIRST.


Find the no start sticky and march through it!


Let us know of your progress.
Marty