timing chain

[tommy]

Hello guys,

A few days ago I removed camshaft cover and saw this :

https://images90.fotosik.pl/101/29e04f198b401c8fmed.jpg (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/29e04f198b401c8f)

This is number PN10122172 in Jerry's gaskets :

https://images91.fotosik.pl/101/956280c0df1888d6med.jpg (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/956280c0df1888d6)

Anybody know is it possible to change this timing chain guide without removing the engine?

[-=Jeff=-]

You are referring to the guide not the chain correct?

[tommy]

You are referring to the guide not the chain correct?

Yes, Jeff, you`re right. Sorry for my mistake, I corrected it.

[-=Jeff=-]

Looking at the pictures I am guessing you will need to have the motor out, but I don’t honestly know.. hopefully Pete, Marc or someone that has done something with the guides will chime in

[tommy]

Looking at the pictures I am guessing you will need to have the motor out, but I don’t honestly know.. hopefully Pete, Marc or someone that has done something with the guides will chime in

I`m afraid about this option, I hope somebody does this without removing the engine. Because I can not leave it as it is.

[Dynomite]

Remove engine...……..

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/350x300/schainguide_zps8052c04a_1__e84f1d068536dcba92e9dab de5ea83bd1b817104.jpghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/350x300/schainguidesonly_zpsf0997ed4_1__87c2cb7daffef67def e44090bf347848eb736ee2.jpg


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[Ccmano]

Sorry to tell you the engine will have to come out. While not impossible to do in the car the effort involved is such that removing the engine is actually easier. It will require retiming the cams. To my knowledge Marc Haibeck tried to time cams in the car and found it problematic.
H
:cheers:

[tommy]

Thank you for this sad news, so i must try to go out with the engine :(

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[Dynomite]

Thank you for this sad news, so i must try to go out with the engine :(



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How many miles on that engine?



Actually it is good news as you caught it before serious damage :thumbsup:

What got you to remove Cam Covers (engine installed)? That alone is not so easy but I have done that and have even removed Heads Engine in car but like Hans suggests....You cannot really do a good job timing the engine without engine removal.



Chance to do some serious reconditioning possibly replace all 4/6 chain guide facings (two on cam covers).



I have no idea what would cause a chain guide facing to break off but it happens (rarely) and I think Jerry of Jerry's Gaskets has insight as to why that might happen (Marc Haibeck I am sure has seen it before and would also have insight). There are two issues (chain guide facings breaking and chain guide facings wearing).



It is the inspection of the Chain Guide Facings that is difficult and some inspection of the chain guides is possible through the passenger side oil cap. Marc has also addressed the Chain Guide Facing Inspection issue on his web site.



I have been trying to figure out the longevity of chain guide facings but seems to have considerable variation possibly depending on type of engine oil used, environmental temperatures, and other variables (maybe firing up the enigine in sub zero temperatures would contribute to chain guide facings breaking). A figure of 150,000 miles has been mentioned but then I recall there are 200,000+ mile LT5s with original chain guide facings :p



Marc Haibeck and Jerry are two individuals (and others that have dismantled high mileage engines) that would definitely have the experience to expand on that issue of chain guide longevity :cheers:

[Jagdpanzer]

As plastic chain facings age they tend to become brittle and break a lot easier. Recommend also inspecting the cam chain tensioners to make sure they are functioning correctly.


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[Jitse]

Hi Tommy, sad news about your guide. But luckily it looks like there no big damage to the engine.
Like Phil is mentioning look at the tensioners, those guides can become brittle because of aging. Maybe high revs/ shifting to low gears for speed driving can cause this too?

I don’t now how handy you are but with help from us you are able to overhaul the engine yourself....

Regards Jitse

[tommy]

How many miles on that engine?



Actually it is good news as you caught it before serious damage :thumbsup:

What got you to remove Cam Covers (engine installed)? That alone is not so easy but I have done that and have even removed Heads Engine in car but like Hans suggests....You cannot really do a good job timing the engine without engine removal.



Chance to do some serious reconditioning possibly replace all 4/6 chain guide facings (two on cam covers).



I have no idea what would cause a chain guide facing to break off but it happens (rarely) and I think Jerry of Jerry's Gaskets has insight as to why that might happen (Marc Haibeck I am sure has seen it before and would also have insight). There are two issues (chain guide facings breaking and chain guide facings wearing).



It is the inspection of the Chain Guide Facings that is difficult and some inspection of the chain guides is possible through the passenger side oil cap. Marc has also addressed the Chain Guide Facing Inspection issue on his web site.



I have been trying to figure out the longevity of chain guide facings but seems to have considerable variation possibly depending on type of engine oil used, environmental temperatures, and other variables (maybe firing up the enigine in sub zero temperatures would contribute to chain guide facings breaking). A figure of 150,000 miles has been mentioned but then I recall there are 200,000+ mile LT5s with original chain guide facings :p



Marc Haibeck and Jerry are two individuals (and others that have dismantled high mileage engines) that would definitely have the experience to expand on that issue of chain guide longevity :cheers:

That engine has only 64 000 miles, fortunately, my cam cover leaking, so I decided to fix it. As you wrote remove cam cover is not easy, I removed servo, brake pump, power steering pump, left side of the intake and left control arm. In base corvette it is so easy but not in zr1. i want to check all timing chain and their guides, but at the first look, i saw damaged this one and guide who is on the back of cam cover. :mad:

Could you send me a link to Marc website ?

All parts I ordered from Jerry`s, I think this is the best shop specializing in zr1.

[tommy]

As plastic chain facings age they tend to become brittle and break a lot easier. Recommend also inspecting the cam chain tensioners to make sure they are functioning correctly.


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Thanks, I check this.

[tommy]

Hi Tommy, sad news about your guide. But luckily it looks like there no big damage to the engine.
Like Phil is mentioning look at the tensioners, those guides can become brittle because of aging. Maybe high revs/ shifting to low gears for speed driving can cause this too?

I don’t now how handy you are but with help from us you are able to overhaul the engine yourself....

Regards Jitse

Hi Jitse,

Fortunately, I saw this damage because my cam cover was leaking, so my engine worked normally, have power and didn`t have strange symptoms, but i will remove oil pan too and check what is in it (for example plastic parts of guide).

About my handy, many things I do by myself, but I have a small garage and I will have a problem with engine remove (no space to lift). :cry:

[tommy]

Jerry works fast, parts ordered on Friday, just arrived :cheers:

https://images89.fotosik.pl/101/ea252feb136f74bcmed.jpg (https://www.fotosik.pl/zdjecie/ea252feb136f74bc)

[Dynomite]

Could you send me a link to Marc website ?

All parts I ordered from Jerry`s, I think this is the best shop specializing in zr1.

Marc Haibeck (http://www.zr1specialist.com/)

About my handy, many things I do by myself, but I have a small garage and I will have a problem with engine remove (no space to lift). :cry:


If you can raise your hood in the garage with a couple feet clearance you should be able to lift the LT5 out.

Post 15 - Lifting The LT5 (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070571)

Post 88 - Installing Engine In ZR1 (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-5.html#post1581825199)

[tommy]

Marc Haibeck (http://www.zr1specialist.com/)



Post 15 - Lifting The LT5 (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070571)

THX!

[Dynomite]

THX!

Welcome :handshak:

This is (installing which is same as removing for the most part) in low clearance garage (see garage door opener just above hood fully open) :p

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/600x600-1/80-bb9babbf_fe78_48d4_9719_8a19a11feab3_1__c5e9a0ba2f 0282a32e09cc85f1911fc6c73fde5e.jpg

Post 88 - Installing Engine In ZR1 (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-5.html#post1581825199)

[tommy]

Marc Haibeck (http://www.zr1specialist.com/)




If you can raise your hood in the garage with a couple feet clearance you should be able to lift the LT5 out.

Post 15 - Lifting The LT5 (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp.html#post1580070571)

Post 88 - Installing Engine In ZR1 (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-5.html#post1581825199)

I have a slim garage but I will try to do it myself :)

[rkreigh]

I just pulled out my 95 lt5 myself and it's not as hard as I thought it would be.


a few tips


one you get everything lose double check that all wires have been disconnected.


you can jack the front up just a bit if you don't have a lift and pull the wheels off. get a cheap harbor freight two ton lift and a tilt harness with the big chains.



make sure you support the pan, pull the tranny out, and then you can lift up and forward to get the harmonic balancer to clear the front cross member.



put a thin board behind the head and watch that the engine doesn't hang up on the studs sticking out of the firewall It's easy to damage the AC cover (ask me how I know) if the engine hangs up on the stud coming up.


it's a good idea to just unbolt the AC cover and set it aside to get a bit more room, comes off ez!!


(anyone have one to sell :>)


unbolt the plenum and you can use some nice lift plates and pick up the engine with the flywheel and headers still on the car and lift it straight up after going forward just a bit.


the really good guys can have them out before you blink. I took my time and still goofed up a few things, but not too bad.

[Ccmano]

I just pulled out my 95 lt5 myself and it's not as hard as I thought it would be.


a few tips


one you get everything lose double check that all wires have been disconnected.


you can jack the front up just a bit if you don't have a lift and pull the wheels off. get a cheap harbor freight two ton lift and a tilt harness with the big chains.



make sure you support the pan, pull the tranny out, and then you can lift up and forward to get the harmonic balancer to clear the front cross member.



put a thin board behind the head and watch that the engine doesn't hang up on the studs sticking out of the firewall It's easy to damage the AC cover (ask me how I know) if the engine hangs up on the stud coming up.


it's a good idea to just unbolt the AC cover and set it aside to get a bit more room, comes off ez!!


(anyone have one to sell :>)


unbolt the plenum and you can use some nice lift plates and pick up the engine with the flywheel and headers still on the car and lift it straight up after going forward just a bit.


the really good guys can have them out before you blink. I took my time and still goofed up a few things, but not too bad.

Agreed with all the above. As was said, remove the transmission before you pull the engine. Much easier that way.
H
:cheers:

[tommy]

Hi guys,

Could you tell me please where can i buy new primery timing chain?

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[secondchance]

Hi guys,

Could you tell me please where can i buy new primery timing chain?

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Jerry’s gaskets. Used but...
http://www.jerrysgaskets.com/chain-primary-timing-used-90-95-6b4/

[tommy]

This I saw, but I want new :)

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[A26B]

This I saw, but I want new :)

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Tommy,
I responded to your email, but the email address you gave must have an error. We do not have new PRIMARY Timing Chains in stock.

The Primary chain is very robust & I don't recall having ever heard of a failed one. I thought your problem was with the Secondary Timing Chain Guide Facing.

[tommy]

It is possible that i do a mistake with my mail because i wrote it from garage :)

Today i checked chains and think that primary chain have big clearance, please look at below link and tell me is it normal or not

https://youtu.be/gy5_gFbuKEY

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[Jagdpanzer]

What does it look like with the primary chain tensioner set?
How worn is the contact face?


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[tommy]

That was with the primary chain tensioner set, tomorrow i will put photo with contact face.

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[Jagdpanzer]

I see your concern.
How many KM or miles on the chain?


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[tommy]

64 000 miles

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[tpepmeie]

I have seen instances where there is not enough adjustment on the primary tensioner to remove all the slack. It may be necessary to shim under the wear face on the primary guide. Some aluminum or steel sheet stock of the proper thickness works if all else fails.

Jerry is right, the primary chain is very stout and I’ve never known of one to fail.

If the block has been line honed, it’s likely there will be excess slack.



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[tommy]

That' s look my contact face https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190331/019e2ded697fb9ac69199f67c59894cf.jpg

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[Jagdpanzer]

Looks normal for 64k miles



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[tommy]

Could you tell me,what I should check before I will change primary chain?

[A26B]

Could you tell me,what I should check before I will change primary chain?

You are checking the slack on the wrong side of the chain. You should be checking the slack on the opposite side where the Primary Chain Guide is located. You would normally adjust the Primary Chain Guide when there is no resistance on the Idler Sprocket (above the crankshaft), so that when you adjust the Primary Chain Guide, it will rotate easily to remove the slack as you adjust the Primary Chain Guide.

If you still have Secondary Chains connected to the Cam Sprockets, you will need to turn the crankshaft to make the Primary Chain tight on the side opposite the Primary Chain Guide. Once the Primary Chain is tight on the opposite side, the slack will be on the same side as the Primary Chain Guide. Then, press the Primary Guide against the Primary Chain, with only finger pressure, & tighten the Primary Chain Guide bolts.

Do this & see if you still have slack in the chain after correctly adjusting the Primary Chain Guide.

Jerrys Gaskets has all of the facings for both the primary & secondary chain guides.

[tommy]

You are checking the slack on the wrong side of the chain. You should be checking the slack on the opposite side where the Primary Chain Guide is located. You would normally adjust the Primary Chain Guide when there is no resistance on the Idler Sprocket (above the crankshaft), so that when you adjust the Primary Chain Guide, it will rotate easily to remove the slack as you adjust the Primary Chain Guide.

If you still have Secondary Chains connected to the Cam Sprockets, you will need to turn the crankshaft to make the Primary Chain tight on the side opposite the Primary Chain Guide. Once the Primary Chain is tight on the opposite side, the slack will be on the same side as the Primary Chain Guide. Then, press the Primary Guide against the Primary Chain, with only finger pressure, & tighten the Primary Chain Guide bolts.

Do this & see if you still have slack in the chain after correctly adjusting the Primary Chain Guide.

Jerrys Gaskets has all of the facings for both the primary & secondary chain guides.

Big thanks for information! Unfortunaly all chains was out od the engine, but I will try to check this point. Could you tell me where I find information how correctly set timing chains,crankshaft...?

[A26B]

Big thanks for information! Unfortunaly all chains was out od the engine, but I will try to check this point. Could you tell me where I find information how correctly set timing chains,crankshaft...?

1. Go to www.jerrysgaskets.com
2. Send me a message using "Contact Us" on Jerrys Gaskets
3. I will reply to you by email with .pdf files from the LT5 Training Manual.

[tommy]

1. Go to www.jerrysgaskets.com
2. Send me a message using "Contact Us" on Jerrys Gaskets
3. I will reply to you by email with .pdf files from the LT5 Training Manual.

Done :)

[tommy]

Done :)I reinstalled the primary chain guide, pushed the guide the chain and tighten the bolts, result you can see below
https://youtu.be/DbUrUF0uKms

But when I did not tighten the bolts and put the tensioner only by my fingers, I think it was better

https://youtu.be/HgjTSy-tZVA

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[A26B]

Put a new facing on the guide & I think you will be good. There are a lot of LT5's out there with many more miles than yours with the original primary timing chain.

[Jagdpanzer]

Along with Jerry’s advice of going with a new facing you might also consider filing bolt slot a to allow for bit more travel.


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[Jagdpanzer]

For reference here is a low mile primary chain laid our against a tape measure.
10.125" (257.2mm)

https://oi540.photobucket.com/albums/gg333/pwasinger/LT5PrimaryCamChain2_zpsim0ll80c.jpg

[tommy]

For reference here is a low mile primary chain laid our against a tape measure.

10.125" (257.2mm)



https://oi540.photobucket.com/albums/gg333/pwasinger/LT5PrimaryCamChain2_zpsim0ll80c.jpgIt is look like the same (257mm).https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190407/84b3580f7f14259ff2f823291698c439.jpg

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[tommy]

Thank you all for a help!!!

I think all will be good.

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