Oil catch can

[chriskinzel]

I am going to install an oil catch can on my car. I can't seem to find a goof mounting spot on the inside of the fender. Will it work in the open space in front of the wheel? I am questing this because it is quite a run for the hoses.
TIA
Chris

[Dynomite]

See Details for Oil Catch Can Installation (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/2942569-tech-info-lt5-eliminated-systems.html#post1581665524)

[chriskinzel]

Thanks Dynomite, but the can I have is too wide to fit in that location. Just wondering if it will work a little farther away from the engine.
Chris

[Karl]

Look.at this picture and you will see where I mounted mine in front of the asr cover. Ignore the 17C on the plenum :-)

http://postimg.org/image/402swhoib/

[Paul Workman]

Thanks Dynomite, but the can I have is too wide to fit in that location. Just wondering if it will work a little farther away from the engine.
Chris

The length of the tube isn't an issue; volume isn't a factor that pipe length, say to the headlight well and back is going to be impede flow significantly. I believe Bob G mounted a substantial can there that he had fabbed up to serve his 427. Al too might have one there as well.

FWIW,

P.

[Dmod81]

Mine is mounted down under the headlight:
http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=162&pictureid=2010

[XfireZ51]

The length of the tube isn't an issue; volume isn't a factor that pipe length, say to the headlight well and back is going to be impede flow significantly. I believe Bob G mounted a substantial can there that he had fabbed up to serve his 427. Al too might have one there as well.

FWIW,

P.

I think BobG. mounts his "substantial can" in the drivers seat most of the time.

[Dynomite]

I think BobG. mounts his "substantial can" in the drivers seat most of the time.
What you get away with :sign10:

[chriskinzel]

Looks like I'm good to go under the headlight. Thanks all!:handshak:
Chris

[Schrade]

I'm still highly in favor of a 'catch can', but I've seen no one's setup that has any manner of cycling the oil BACK to the CC (or the dirt, or SOMEwhere), with some sort of check valve integrated 'thereinto'......

After a few trips to the grocery store, a full catch can don't catch - CAN it?

[Franke]

Well Chuck it might catch something :). Maybe looks good at shows as a curiosity item too. I mounted mine next to the brake booster/master cylinder and made a bracket to mount it to the MC bolts. I ran the hoses to the firewall and up to the PCV and over across the top of the cam cover to a pipe I made to pickup the vacuum port. Looks good to me. One thing I did do was test the can for vacuum leaks before I mounted it and it was a good thing I did as the clear hose sight glass fittings were junk. I replaced them with all brass and new tubing and it was good to go.

[Schrade]

Yeah - definitely looks good there Franke...

And I'm goin' crazy thinkin' of the dynamics of a catch can.

If the oil is in [almost] vapor phase, as close to vapor phase as it can actually be, how is it 'catching', to fluid phase, in a can? By reduction in velocity, of gases in the can / cylinder???

And if THAT's it, then how much can accumulate before volume in the can is reduced by accumulated oil???

If that's NOT it, then a membrane of some sort can catch it, and it will run down to the bottom of the container. Until it fills.

The can CANNOT be a maintenance-free object. It has to be emptied...

I saw how much oil accumulated in the plenum inlet, when I pulled the TB after only half a dozen Closed Loop cycles, after the top end finish earlier this year.

Jerry said the amount of oil is negligible, with respect to a fouled burn. Fine. With that oil removed from the burn, it has to be marginally better. IF IT'S REMOVED....................................

[XfireZ51]

Haven't we discussed this once before? For some reason this feels like deja vu all over again. The oil is coming out of suspension traveling through the filtration in the catch can. It accumulates on the fibers and drops to the bottom.

[Franke]

Yeah - definitely looks good there Franke...

And I'm goin' crazy thinkin' of the dynamics of a catch can.

If the oil is in [almost] vapor phase, as close to vapor phase as it can actually be, how is it 'catching', to fluid phase, in a can? By reduction in velocity, of gases in the can / cylinder???

And if THAT's it, then how much can accumulate before volume in the can is reduced by accumulated oil???

If that's NOT it, then a membrane of some sort can catch it, and it will run down to the bottom of the container. Until it fills.

The can CANNOT be a maintenance-free object. It has to be emptied...

I saw how much oil accumulated in the plenum inlet, when I pulled the TB after only half a dozen Closed Loop cycles, after the top end finish earlier this year.

Jerry said the amount of oil is negligible, with respect to a fouled burn. Fine. With that oil removed from the burn, it has to be marginally better. IF IT'S REMOVED....................................

No you're not goin crazy. The catch can will not catch every vapor molecule going thru the can but will capture most. Its not 100% efficient but is more helpful than nothing at all. The vapor travels thru a medium or filter of some sort to separate air and oil. Similar to the air /water/ oil separator for an air compressor. I believe that the oil vapors added to the intake air can add to plug/emissions problems eventually. The can does need to be emptied when the oil level rises to a certain point but is easy to do with a drain valve. My can was cheap ($38.00) so no harm to the wallet. I did add $10.00 worth of brass fittings to improve the design.
Jerry is right about the oil amount being negligible with respect to a fouled burn. This of course is dependent on the engine characteristics too. I would expect any extended high RPM drives from this engine to produce much more vapor than driving around the neighborhood. The fact remains that it does produce oil in the intake and has been discovered in the MAP hose as well as other places in the engine, so I am experimenting to see if that will be cured and am curious if it will change the emissions gases as well.

[Schrade]

Haven't we discussed this once before? For some reason this feels like deja vu all over again. The oil is coming out of suspension traveling through the filtration in the catch can. It accumulates on the fibers and drops to the bottom.

Yes we did Dom, and Jerry did discourse on PCV flow, and vacuum @ hammer down conditions. bUT NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED ABOUT WHAT'S 'CAUGHT' IN THE CAN.



You need a baffle or something to keep the oil from being sucked into the pvc,ya want to get on the front end of the problem.

This is not possible in the LT5 due to the engine design. Simply no place to add any baffles [AT THE FRONT END]. Here's why.

The LT5 doesn't have a conventional style of PCV system. The majority of the crankcase vapor comes up through a large baffle with cover and 2 large hoses to an isolated chamber in the injector housings (all under the plenum).There are 2 small holes in the cyl head (or inj hsng if 1990 model) that vapor from the cylinder heads passes through, into the same isolated chamber. The pipes with grommets you see on the outside of the injector housings then connect to the PVC hose at the rear of the plenum.

Regarding the pipes from each cam cover to the air horn, in front of the throttle body; Those pipes are for filtered/fresh air purge of the crankcase.


Under normal driving/high vacuum conditions, air flow is INTO the cam covers, through these pipes.
Under WOT/low vacuum conditions, crankcase volume & pressure is greater than the PCV system can handle. Reason is simple, no engine vacuum, no flow through the PCV valves except for positive pressure flow from high to low pressure.

The same principal applies to the cam cover tubes, thus the reason for the cam cover "filters," whose purpose is actually mist extraction. WOT flow would then be from the cam cover to the engine air inlet at the air horn.

So, under WOT, low to no engine vacuum conditions, heavily laden oil vapor can reach the plenum by two different paths, PCV system and the cam cover filtered air purge tubes.

The amount of oil in the crankcase vapor depends on engine condition and will normally accumulate in the plenum through the PCV system, even under normal driving conditions. Not a perfect condition, but not a serious problem either. It is a condition that can be improved upon, but not entirely eliminated, with the installation of an oil catch can. WOT conditions can still result in oil through the air inlet. The more blow-by the more oil.

He did NOT, nor has anyone else posted feedback on accumulated oil, unless I'm mistaken here...

If you don't want ACCUMULATED oil discussed ANY FURTHER, fine - you're the boss.

If you DON'T object, I'd like to hear
1) What everyone does, if anything, about the oil that catches in the can.

And

2) If no one does anything about it, why not? Why then do you HAVE the can????

I think it's a legitimate discussion.................

[Dynomite]

I think it's a legitimate discussion.................
Well....lets see....I checked my oil catch can on a 90' and 91' and after say 300 miles had about 10 TBS of oil.....maybe more or less ;)
I discarded that oil :p

I like the looks of the Oil Catch Can :D

See Details for Oil Catch Can Installation (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/2942569-tech-info-lt5-eliminated-systems.html#post1581665524)

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/LT5/OilCatch1.jpg

Just for you Schrade .....I installed A new Master Clutch Cylinder and New Clutch Slave Cylinder today on my 90' (Both from Jerry) and I have no clue what the issues are regarding Clutch master and Clutch Slave Cylinders any more as these from Jerry function perfectly and are easy to install (both Master and Slave) on a Stock 90' with Stock Exhaust :handshak:

And as always.....from time of order had in hand two/three days and super packaging :thumbsup:

[XfireZ51]

http://youtu.be/4e9CkhBb18E



Yes we did Dom, and Jerry did discourse on PCV flow, and vacuum @ hammer down conditions. bUT NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED ABOUT WHAT'S 'CAUGHT' IN THE CAN.



He did NOT, nor has anyone else posted feedback on accumulated oil, unless I'm mistaken here...

If you don't want ACCUMULATED oil discussed ANY FURTHER, fine - you're the boss.

If you DON'T object, I'd like to hear
1) What everyone does, if anything, about the oil that catches in the can.

And

2) If no one does anything about it, why not? Why then do you HAVE the can????

I think it's a legitimate discussion.................

[Schrade]

Well, you're the MAN there, Cliff...

But about the 10 TBS; was the can full? If it was, how long had it been full, suckin' in the overflow? Like I said before, I had brand new oil pooled @ the inlet, after 5 - 6 Closed Loops, idling in the carport, post top end work, with 32k on the mill.

And like Jerry said, there's room for improvement.

So here's what we're thinkin' - plastic see-through catch can, with a drain line to the Air Filter housing up front.

Drain line with a check valve, or inverted PCV, integrated into the can. Motor off, or hammer down, oil drains. Low rpm's, vacuum keeps PCV integrity, and collects oil.

Unless anyone has fabbed up something, or even an idea, and they got their keyboard lockjaw-ed cat got their tongue???????

[Shrek]

bUT NO ONE HAS EVER TALKED ABOUT WHAT'S 'CAUGHT' IN THE CAN.

What everyone does, if anything, about the oil that catches in the can.

I just pour it back into the motor. http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16738

[XfireZ51]

This is the one I use and I really don't have a lot of oil in it or in the plenum.
Had more in plenum before using this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CORVETTE-C5-C6-OIL-CATCH-CAN-97-12-LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-/251220670271?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACorvette&hash=item3a7deb373f&vxp=mtr

[Schrade]

http://youtu.be/4e9CkhBb18E
No need for the hardware there - maybe just a solderin' iron? (after you put down the joystickbroom)...

Maybe like THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9KQQrNDawM


Anyway here -


This is the one I use and I really don't have a lot of oil in it or in the plenum.
Had more in plenum before using this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CORVETTE-C5-C6-OIL-CATCH-CAN-97-12-LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-/251220670271?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACorvette&hash=item3a7deb373f&vxp=mtr

OK - someone HAS focused on 'when to empty' the can. http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'm on it.

Anyone got an extra PCV-to-plenum inlet pipe that I can hack? And would Scotch-Brite make for a good filter membrane??? Maybe just a hose by-pass for trial engineering fab-hack... The drain plumbing by default will be tricky here.....................

I'm gonna' get on [something] it here...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, if someone would just address the hesitation that Marc said ALL LT5's have; but who will try to write to, or patch the ECM coding?

[Dynomite]

I guessed at the 10 TBS.....it was less than an inch of oil in the bottom of the Oil Catch Can.......and the Catch Can is maybe 6 inches high.

Well, you're the MAN there, Cliff...
be
But about the 10 TBS; was the can full?

[Franke]

OK - someone HAS focused on 'when to empty' the can. http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif


would Scotch-Brite make for a good filter membrane

Chuck, I have a sight glass on the side of my can to check the oil level. I used Scotch Brite stainless steel pads as a filter element. I like the one Xfire is using too. Looks like an air compressor air/oil separator that I use for painting cars. Not too complex and is clear for visual inspection. I will dump any oil into my recycle container.