Corvette Museum

[vinsZR-1]

Just heard on sirius radio a sink hole opened up inside the museum under the dome

[Paul Workman]

Yes, confirmed that 8 cars were swallowed up. OMG... What a loss that could be, depending on which ones...

DAYAM!

http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/BREAKING-Floor-Collapse-at-National-Corvette-Museum-245173671.html#at_pco=smlwn-1.0&at_tot=1&at_ab=per-1&at_pos=0

What effect will this have on the Gathering (I can't help but wonder)?

[DaveK]

Hard to believe something like that could happen. We had dinner in there last year!

This is going to be expensive to fix, perhaps we should start a collection?

Dave

[Y-me]

Blue flame restorations a can restore those cars no matter what. I think the most key car lost was the 1 millionth Vette, and possibly the ZR1 spyder.

[lisounds]

this it what i found....



BOWLING GREEN, Ky. -- Eight Corvettes at the National Corvette Museum in Bowling Green are gone after a sinkhole opened under the Skydome portion of the facility Wednesday morning.
According to a news release, the museum's security company alerted officials around 5:44 a.m. Wednesday when movement in the Skydome set off motion detectors.
Museum officials said when the arrived at the building they discovered the sinkhole and the Bowling Green Fire Department secured the area.
The release stated the following cars were affected:

1993 ZR-1 Spyder on loan from General Motors
2009 ZR1 “Blue Devil” on loan from General Motors
The other six vehicles were owned by the National Corvette Museum including:

1962 Black Corvette
1984 PPG Pace Car
1992 White 1 Millionth Corvette
1993 Ruby Red 40th Anniversary Corvette
2001 Mallett Hammer Z06 Corvette
2009 White 1.5 Millionth Corvette
Stuctural engineers are being called in to survey the damage.
The museum is open to the public, but officials said the Skydome is closed to everyone, including employees, until it is deemed structurally sound.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

They better think about removing Zora and Elfie to safer ground.....

The article states that the NCM will be open today. I would think that from a liability standpoint, they would not want their employees at risk.

[ZZZZZR1]

The board is meeting tonight to discuss BG 2014 and we will add
the NCM's tragedy to the top of the agenda

The club should consider giving what we can, this is a huge
catastrophe and this is the time to help

Thoughts?

:proud:

David

[DaveK]

Perhaps a donation from the Registry as a whole combined with donations by individuals ? The BG disaster relief fund? Count me in.

[We Gone]

Good thing the museum was closed or it could have been much worse, I wonder how long it had been sinking? I'm sure they have insurance to help with the cost.

[cvette98pacecar]

I left Adam a voicemail telling him I was willing to buy the spider sight unseen.

On a serious note. I am glad to hear that no one was hurt.

[XfireZ51]

Holy crap. Just saw this. Do they do any "fracking" in KY?

http://www.whas11.com/news/8-cars-swollowed-by-sinkhole-at-National-Corvette-Museum-245183751.html

[We Gone]

Looking at the pics I sure don't see any rebar or wire in the floor? Also looks thin I would think the floor would have been 8-10" thick or more under the spire.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

More cars to restore!!

Seriously though, this is just awful.....

[efnfast]

Where did you get pictures?

[Blue Flame Restorations]

I left Adam a voicemail telling him I was willing to buy the spider sight unseen.

On a serious note. I am glad to hear that no one was hurt.


Robert, while in FL last month, I was offered the crushed 89 LT5 narrow bodied car. GM built experimental.

[-=Jeff=-]

Pictures:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aXfQKDqsh18/UvuZVmaJL_I/AAAAAAAAE-I/pgdSnUvARzE/w600-h381-no/1620520_10151901066382441_309671370_n.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--9WFK1pyhMQ/UvuZV_JjMVI/AAAAAAAAE-M/YOWfe7QmZIg/w600-h399-no/1922378_10151901066377441_1059295865_n.jpg

[XfireZ51]

That floor does look thin. And yeah, where is the rebar?

[Blue Flame Restorations]

I see rebar but not a lot.

[Dynomite]

What Causes Sink Holes to Form (http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/sinkholes-proven-to-be-dangero/10802869)

Typical Concrete Driveways are 3-1/2 inch with wire mesh just because 2x4 forms are used....but most go for 4 inch and I go for 5 inch thick concrete. If heavy truck traffic or tractors..then even thicker.

Looks like concrete layed on plastic with no wire mesh and maybe some conduits under the concrete for electrical or something. And....some other access corridors under the concrete. Definitely would not expect heavy traffic on this floor and the tile would cover ALL pending cracks from concrete shrinkage with the plastic keeping moisture from reaching the tile above.

What a disaster :mad: and could have happened outside as well as under some nice corvettes. But maybe some of those conduits you see are water lines that begin leaking over a long period of time. Which would be the reason why the sink hole happened where it did. A reason I do not like water lines under concrete...always go around any concrete flooring with water lines if possible for the simple reason it is easy to find and repair water leaks.

[Y-me]

That ZR1 need any parts?

[Daniel_Mc]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k79/Daniel_Mc/LastZ.png (http://s85.photobucket.com/user/Daniel_Mc/media/LastZ.png.html)

The area under the car is not supported so it is only being held by a thin layer of cement. You can see rebar but very little (or what looks like rebar).

EDIT: I hate seeing this... Our GS sat where the 40th was for 3 years. Glad she is home now!

-Daniel

[Z51JEFF]

Oh,the pain.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a136/FLYTYM/chevrolet-corvette-zr-1-spyder-prototype-photo-525833-s-520x318_zpsfc40f000.jpg

[Blue Flame Restorations]

FOX News just reported that the NCM is now CLOSED.

[RodB]

Just read on the web that the museum has been planning a survivor display for 2015 or 2016 season. Guess they won't have to go far for some really cool specimens! Truly is a sad day for the Corvette community.

[GTOger]

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease,not this car!The pain would be just as bad if it were the ASC car as well

I believe the spyder in the pit is the black car pictured here:
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/ZR1Gallery/tabid/232/galleryType/SlideShow/ItemID/28/Default.aspx
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Portals/0/Gallery/Album/6/103_0385.JPG

[GTOger]

My question is how in the world do they plan to (A) extract the cars that did not fall into the pit, and (B) extract the cars that DID fall in the pit. With regard to the currently safe cars, I would imagine it must be pretty frightening to think about driving them on such unstable ground. And on the cars that have fallen, the obvious answer is a crane, but from how far away? Certainly, the entire structure has to be considered compromised now, right? Say they fill the hole and put a new floor in.... would you loan YOUR car for display?

[Blue Flame Restorations]

I believe the spyder in the pit is the black car pictured here:
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/ZR1Gallery/tabid/232/galleryType/SlideShow/ItemID/28/Default.aspx
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Portals/0/Gallery/Album/6/103_0385.JPG

Yep, same car.

[Z51JEFF]

I believe the spyder in the pit is the black car pictured here:
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/ZR1Gallery/tabid/232/galleryType/SlideShow/ItemID/28/Default.aspx
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Portals/0/Gallery/Album/6/103_0385.JPG

This is the ASC car I believe,Im going to go cry a little bit now.Honestly I wouldnt feel as bad if it were a BigBlock Midyear instead of this car.Hope it can be saved.How are they going to move the last 95 that looks like there is nothing under it.:cry:

[We Gone]

I would volunteer to help push the others out

[FU]

FOX News just reported that the NCM is now CLOSED.

You think they would close the museum ? Go to the NCM site and click on the webcams.
I'd GTFO of there asap.

[-=Jeff=-]

Some of the cars swallowed: :(

1 millionth car (on right)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H5efyunXEos/TEpujoz6xlI/AAAAAAAABB0/rUx9qo_FOKI/w831-h556-no/DSC_0130.JPG

ZR-1 Spyder:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uWl0ZQKP0F8/TEpp8FXOAZI/AAAAAAAAA-k/ZOa3am8jjUI/w831-h556-no/DSC_0080.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rEEWBCrIUZA/TEpqArzPGOI/AAAAAAAAA-s/jd-BJIDfQBk/w372-h556-no/DSC_0082.JPG

1.5 millionth:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nd0ku6PEwsE/TEpnr-PvW2I/AAAAAAAAA9Q/ctzfKPl8XUs/w831-h556-no/DSC_0060.JPG

I know I have more pics at home

[scottfab]

Seems that someone ought to consider getting some ground studies done with ground penetrating radar to see where there maybe more potential sink holes.
Don't even know if that would help since the nature of a sink hole is not usually soil missing from directly under the sight as it is a pocket of missing soil/rock many many feet down.

I know I've walked through that area many times. Strange to see the hole there now and sad to see the vetts at the bottom of it.
No doubt this will make the evening news.

[cvette98pacecar]

What Causes Sink Holes to Form (http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/sinkholes-proven-to-be-dangero/10802869)

Typical Concrete Driveways are 3-1/2 inch with wire mesh just because 2x4 forms are used....but most go for 4 inch and I go for 5 inch thick concrete. If heavy truck traffic or tractors..then even thicker.

Looks like concrete layed on plastic with no wire mesh and maybe some conduits under the concrete for electrical or something. And....some other access corridors under the concrete. Definitely would not expect heavy traffic on this floor and the tile would cover ALL pending cracks from concrete shrinkage with the plastic keeping moisture from reaching the tile above.

What a disaster :mad: and could have happened outside as well as under some nice corvettes. But maybe some of those conduits you see are water lines that begin leaking over a long period of time. Which would be the reason why the sink hole happened where it did. A reason I do not like water lines under concrete...always go around any concrete flooring with water lines if possible for the simple reason it is easy to find and repair water leaks.

What I find that is very interesting first there looks like there were corridors under the floor now were those corridors created by water? Second it is amazing that the NCM starting displacing earth for the race track about 2 years ago is this part of the problem? I would like to know what the altitude of the NCM Museum is compared to the race track.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Some of the cars swallowed: :(

1 millionth car (on right)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-H5efyunXEos/TEpujoz6xlI/AAAAAAAABB0/rUx9qo_FOKI/w831-h556-no/DSC_0130.JPG

ZR-1 Spyder:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uWl0ZQKP0F8/TEpp8FXOAZI/AAAAAAAAA-k/ZOa3am8jjUI/w831-h556-no/DSC_0080.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rEEWBCrIUZA/TEpqArzPGOI/AAAAAAAAA-s/jd-BJIDfQBk/w372-h556-no/DSC_0082.JPG

1.5 millionth:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nd0ku6PEwsE/TEpnr-PvW2I/AAAAAAAAA9Q/ctzfKPl8XUs/w831-h556-no/DSC_0060.JPG

I know I have more pics at home

That 53 is the one I restored and was displayed for a year. Glad it wasn't there!

[Blue Flame Restorations]

The Falconer was sitting behind the last ZR-1 two weeks ago.

[Karl]

Such a sad day.....

[Kevin]

should all be rebuildable.

[Z06scentair]

Such a sad day.....

Yes it is.....mourning from North Carolina!

[Tony Davila]

Hope NCM insurance was paid up and covers all this damage.:cry:

[Racinfan83]

should all be rebuildable.

We hope! But who knows how far in there they are, how much dirt and concrete is on top of em, and how much damage they will do trying to get em out? Gonna be a long process since they will have to determine what caused it, and if there is danger of further sinking...

[Kevin]

they don't have to be driveable, they just have to be showable. all the body work is available

[BigJohn]

That is where my car was displayed!!!!!

I hope the hole doesn't grow.

[Schrade]

Looking at the pics I sure don't see any rebar or wire in the floor? Also looks thin I would think the floor would have been 8-10" thick or more under the spire.

This snappic looks fake. Both cars look like models.

http://corvettemuseum.org/enews/images/sinkhole/DSC_1259.jpg

[Blue Flame Restorations]

This snappic looks fake. Both cars look like models.

http://corvettemuseum.org/enews/images/sinkhole/DSC_1259.jpg

I double dog dare you to walk off that edge!!!:p

[Kevin]

http://i.imgur.com/hP3JKrY.jpg

I think the zr-1 is done for

[Blue Flame Restorations]

http://i.imgur.com/hP3JKrY.jpg

I think the zr-1 is done for

I'd sure like to tackle it......;)

[FU]

Speedster in the background ?

[Jagdpanzer]

WOW, they look like my Hot Wheel cars I played with in the dirt back when I was a young kid

[Karl]

:-(

[edram454]

yeah speedster in the background. I would have no problem digging it out, hiring a crane and yanking it out on a flatbed lifted by the crane. That car is priceless and would certainly restore it. It has some dings and maybe some cracked glass but it is all fixable. what a shame. too bad some other less important vettes werent swallowed up. why did it have to be a zr1!!! TAKE 10 MID YEARS.. OR 30 STRAIGHT AXLES..anything but a one of one zr1 spyder. I am flying my flag at half staff.

[LGAFF]

Wonder if the museum itself has sinkhole coverage for the building....earth movement is excluded under most base policies. I am not referring to the cars but the building structure.

[Kevin]

footage of the hole forming http://youtu.be/IukDWhf7U9I

[ZZZZZR1]

It's scared how close the hole is to the last ZR-1......

Glad nobody was hurt but pray they take the cars out and
restore them

:cheers:

David

[RHanselman]

I'd sure like to tackle it......;)

I can see a whole lot of speedster molds being made :-)

I'm sure Adam has them all insured...

Glad no one was hurt... Sad day indeed...

[XfireZ51]

Overhead of the carnage. Drone technology.

http://youtu.be/W5FG9_mGWPo

[Schrade]

Drone footage. Doesn't look so fake ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FG9_mGWPo


ed.:
Beat me to the keypunch there D...



Speedster in the background ?

Black one looks hopefully like dirt damage only... Blue one doesn't look TOO bad either.

http://i.imgur.com/hP3JKrY.jpg

[JimZRyd]

I was at work today when I learned of this tragedy. I am in shock! I love that Spyder!!! Such a shame. Wouldn't hesitate to volunteer to help dig those beauties out!:(

[GTOger]

If an old Corvette is basically like a hole in the ground that you throw money int, it's fitting that a Corvette Museum would be an even bigger hole in the ground that you throw Corvettes into.

What, too soon?

[Tripler]

No problem Capatain !!! We can buff those scratches out :) :) :)

[JimZRyd]

Just heard that all the remaining cars have been removed from the dome room! Good to know we wont lose anymore history, at least not right away.

[Dynomite]

Overhead of the carnage. Drone technology.

http://youtu.be/W5FG9_mGWPo

Holy Crap............there is some major water flow somewhere under there as the tunneling indicates.

[Tripler]

Huge sinkhole area :( :( :(


http://kgs.uky.edu/kgsweb/olops/pub/kgs/ic04_12.pdf

[LGAFF]

Double Whammy....lots of limestone and lots of old mines....we typically do not see sink hole claims from KY..mostly from FL.

[efnfast]

That was cool, shame he didn't know how to fly it.

[ZR-1 Black Beauty]

Sink hole area. Look at Mammoth Cave just down the road.

Real shame. Hope for the best.

[TomZR1]

Sad day for corvette museum and all vette owners,hopefully they can restore them if not r i p:(

[White Bullet]

It is sad. Earlier today when I first saw the headline I thought "man some dealership here in FL just lost some inventory". Man I was wrong. I can remember having dinner in there and guess it was not my time. That looks like a lot of work to fix this if it is even possible. Good luck making it happen. :fahne:

[Racinfan83]

I'm far from an expert on sinkholes - but I do have some experience with excavation and such. That does not appear from the pics/video to be a water problem from the museum itself as some speculated (water lines etc)
That looks like a good old-fashioned big time limestone cave in sinkhole. The dirt in the hole appears to be dry - and the rock looks to be fractured like a huge collapse into an underground cavern WAY below what you see... Will be interesting to see where they go from here...

[edram454]

I'm far from an expert on sinkholes - but I do have some experience with excavation and such. That does not appear from the pics/video to be a water problem from the museum itself as some speculated (water lines etc)
That looks like a good old-fashioned big time limestone cave in sinkhole. The dirt in the hole appears to be dry - and the rock looks to be fractured like a huge collapse into an underground cavern WAY below what you see... Will be interesting to see where they go from here...

Nice observation. I hope they can get that zr1 spyder out. that was such a beautiful car. I was there in 2009 drooling all over that car. I needed a bib while I was there.

ed ramos #3028

[Mystic ZR-1]

...hope the dyno sheets didn't fall into the hole.
That would certainly put an end to the dyno sheet "problem"...

[JThomas]

The National Corvette Museum received a call at 5:44am from their security company alerting them of their motion detectors going off in the Skydome area of the Museum. Upon arrival it was discovered that a sinkhole had collapsed within the Museum. No one was in or around the Museum at the time. The Bowling Green Fire Department arrived on the scene and secured the area. The Fire Department estimated the size of the hole as 40 feet across and 25-30 feet deep.
Eight Corvettes were affected by this incident. Those cars include:

1993 ZR-1 Spyder on loan from General Motors
2009 ZR1 “Blue Devil” on loan from General Motors
The other six vehicles were owned by the National Corvette Museum including:

1962 Black Corvette
1984 PPG Pace Car
1992 White 1 Millionth Corvette
1993 Ruby Red 40th Anniversary Corvette
2001 Mallett Hammer Z06 Corvette
2009 White 1.5 Millionth Corvette
None of the cars affected were on loan from individuals. The Skydome exhibit area of the Museum is a separate structure connected to the main Museum. A structural engineer has been on-site to assess the existing damage and stability of the surrounding areas. The structural engineering firm did determine that the perimeter of the Skydome is stable. The museum has worked with its insurance adjustor to retain a construction manager and they will be coordinating all work moving forward.
The Museum has been closed to the public for the day to allow careful assessments to the situation.
With the 20th Anniversary celebration, Grand Opening of the NCM Motorsports Park, and the National Corvette Caravan coming August 27-30, there is a lot to be excited about in 2014, and the museum looks forward to getting the Skydome repaired and reopened very soon.
The museum will be open on Thursday for normal operations, although the skydome area will be blocked off and not accessible for viewing. Numerous engineers, geo-technical experts, and karst/sinkhole experts have been there throughout the day and they feel the rest of the building is safe. While this is a tragic event and there is a lot to do to repair the skydome, we are very thankful that it happened at a time when no one was here or injured.
The National Corvette Museum has insurance on both the cars and the property. Their insurance adjuster has also been there and is working with them on the next steps. The NCM has retained the firm who built the 2009 building expansion, as their construction managers for this project. They will work with the foundation engineers and structural engineers to determine the best plan to stabilize the surrounding areas, repair the hole and everything else.
The NCM will continue normal operations, as much as possible, and will welcome visitors and members to the 20th Anniversary celebration as planned.
There is a link on the homepage of the NCM website to various photos and videos including the security camera video of the actual collapse up until the power was cut to the camera system. There is also mini helicopter footage filmed from inside the hole. www.corvettemuseum.org (http://www.corvettemuseum.org/)
All cars that were on display in the Museum's Skydome, not affected by the sinkhole, have been safely removed.


-#-

[taximan]

Wonder if the museum itself has sinkhole coverage for the building....earth movement is excluded under most base policies. I am not referring to the cars but the building structure.


Lee,

I know Marsh writes the cover for the museum. I am sure they had all bases covered with a property DIC, incl. quake, flood, and earth subsizement.

My big ? is what agreement GM had with the museum on those cars ? Since GM is self insured for the first $1.0mm, I am guessing the NCM assumes all responsibility from the General.

And since autos are generally excluded from coverage of property of others, that should be interesting.

Wouldnt look real good for GM to sue the NCM.

I left a message for Adam Boca, but I dont think he's involved with NCMs own insurance.

[BigJohn]

...hope the dyno sheets didn't fall into the hole.
That would certainly put an end to the dyno sheet "problem"...


Wy?
You will never see them anyway!!!

:(

[GOLDCYLON]

I would not be surprised if a lot of the building beyond the dome is compromised. If thats the case it may be a resite and rebuild. And it would be cheaper. GC

[ZZZZZR1]

Latest from Wendell. VERY GOOD NEWS!!!

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t199/pennstatefootball/25618ebb753be78e281e4a0d208b7857_zpsbbfe655a.jpg

:cheers:

David

[Dynomite]

I would not be surprised if a lot of the building beyond the dome is compromised. If thats the case it may be a resite and rebuild. And it would be cheaper. GC

You may have a point :icon_stud
This may be very interesting as there may be many buildings in the area sitting on large very deep undetected caves which have taken hundreds or even thousands of years to develop.

Sink Holes may take hundreds or even thousands of years to develop (http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/sinkholes/10637/what_causes_a_sinkhole_/554362)

[Paul Workman]

More than one sinkhole opened at the same time in the area, according to local reports. This email sent to me by a friend in KY.

______________________

Good Evening Mr. Paul:

I red about this in todays paper, & it was all over the TV News all day. Our son lives
& works in Bowling Green. He told Maggie this evening that there were two more
sink hole in line with this one that occured about the same time.One was in a socker
field, & the other was at a site of a nw business being constucted. Sounds like maybe
a small earthquake ma have occurred. That is really a shame that the corvettes were
involved in this mess. I have had several over the years a few years back in my much
younger days. Hy, its past my bedtime. Later.

[undercover]

Question is - will you ever feel comfortable parking your Z in that parking lot?

[Meanmyz]

Question is - will you ever feel comfortable parking your Z in that parking lot?

Yes! Your odds are much better there than everytime you drive your car out on a public road.

[GOLDCYLON]

That was cool, shame he didn't know how to fly it.


My thoughts as well. More footage of the operator lol than the damage

[RodB]

There is a better 6 minute video on YouTube of the sinkhole where they actually FLEW IT LIKE THEY STOLE IT and got the drone in the sinkhole. Guess we are still on for the Gathering or is it too early to know?

[Bob Eyres]

Someone, please knock off a mold of that speedster hood before restoration. :prayThat looks like the one that should have gone on every ZR-1, beautiful.

To me, the 62' hurts the most. To think of all the love and care lavished on that car for all these years, and now hanging by a thread. What a shame.

P.S. (See shot #120 in the NCM stills) - It's great to see Gov. Chris Christie taking a break from politicking in Kentucky to help roll some C4's out of danger.
Gee Gov. we didn't even know you could fit in one :thumbsup:

[GOLDCYLON]

Can anybody spot ground zero ? 258 Known sink holes in the area to date.. We can out engineer most anything fellars but never forget Nature always gets a vote.

http://www.plotscan.com/
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u214/sqnlvl/sinkholes_zps59b30c7b.jpg

[JThomas]

I am aware they are already addressing the issues that will involve the new Motorsports Park complex. :cheers:

[RICKYRJ1]

I hope all effort is made to restore the black spyder, I know that sounds selfish but I am posting on a ZR-1 forum. It will be interesting to see what GM decides to do with the damaged cars.

[taximan]

I hope all effort is made to restore the black spyder, I know that sounds selfish but I am posting on a ZR-1 forum. It will be interesting to see what GM decides to do with the damaged cars.

They came out today and said that all cars will have repair attempt made or displayed as survivor cars.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Can anybody spot ground zero ? 258 Known sink holes in the area to date.. We can out engineer most anything fellars but never forget Nature always gets a vote.

http://www.plotscan.com/
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u214/sqnlvl/sinkholes_zps59b30c7b.jpg


259....

[Kevin]

New GM Corvette Assembly Plant Manager Jeff Lamarche announces GM will oversee the restoration off all cars recovered from the sinkhole.


does this mean zr-1 body panels?

[Racinfan83]

Just saw this on Facebook:
http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2014/02/13/these-are-the-eight-corvettes-that-fell-into-the-corvette-museums-sinkhole/

[USAFPILOT]

the "survivors" idea is dumb. Repair them.

[DennisC]

What a sad day for all Corvette owners/enthusiast around the globe history has been damaged but not lost hopefully they can restore what was damaged. They will never be perfect again but hopefully restored as best as possible.

[Dynomite]

the "survivors" idea is dumb. Repair them.

Ya.....I was trying to figure out what "survivors" was......I was thinking they just pull them out of the hole and set them on display calling them a survivor but then thought that would be sooooooooo stupid.....I got a photo if you want to see what a totaled 1990 Corvette looks like.........it is NOT fun to look at :mad:

Then on local news of the disaster (CA News and NOT SD News) the News guys and gals thought it was funny that such toys fell into a hole in the ground :censored:

[Franke]

Perhaps its not personal enough to them. People sometimes think another's problem is funny. Not everyone on this planet is intelligent enough to understand what just happened there. Perhaps one day they will get it. Thankfully the museum and cars can be recovered and possibly restored.
CA is one quake away from something like this only on a grander scale. I remember the last quake and resulting damage. I left one month before the disaster and was on the embarcadero hiway that I think pancaked cars and the lower ramp etc. I didn't think it was funny.

[Z51JEFF]

The news people see this as just another story.One news anchor was interviewing somebody in the Corvette community.The news guy had a smirk on his face trying to find humor in the story,until he was told that the 1,000,000 car was worth close to $1 Million dollars,the smirk was gone after that.

[Kevin]

i don't think anything that went down the hole was $1m car

[We Gone]

unfortunately only the true Corvette lovers will understand what may have been lost. Fortunately we are many and will keep the dream alive for the future custodian's of the American Dream car.

[Meanmyz]

i don't think anything that went down the hole was $1m car

Who are you kidding Kevin? That '84 Pacer is worth that easily!

[Z51JEFF]

the "survivors" idea is dumb. Repair them.

I agree.This would be a constant reminder of something everyone would like to forget.I cant see G.M. having any part in this and even though I would like to see the extraction process I hope there isnt any coverage of the cars coming out of the hole.

[Bob Eyres]

I hope there isnt any coverage of the cars coming out of the hole.

On the contrary, I hope there is extensive documentation. I'm a cameraman and I'm real disappointed in the work so far. Gimme a harness dammit.
I'm like a little kid, fascinated by how the forces of nature can sweep our little toys right off the table and damage our playhouse.
No one was hurt, that's the main thing. Everything else can be fixed. Let's not get maudlin about it.

BTW, did you see in those NCM stills how deeeeep that hole is? Who's got the cajones to find the bottom? There are real serious caves down there. I usually don't like spelunker shows on t.v., but this is an exception. Stalactites, Stalagmites, and C4's, cool.

[efnfast]

Looking at some of those pictures, looks like they better get the cars out of there before the bottom falls out of the pit.

[John Boothby]

I agree.This would be a constant reminder of something everyone would like to forget.I cant see G.M. having any part in this and even though I would like to see the extraction process I hope there isnt any coverage of the cars coming out of the hole.

On the national news last night they stated that GM would help with any parts needed to restore the damaged Corvettes.

[Paul Workman]

Looking at some of those pictures, looks like they better get the cars out of there before the bottom falls out of the pit.

Yes, I was looking at that too. There are some "bottomless pits" peeking through the dirt. After all, the material in the void went somewhere, right? And, I think we can see the black throat of that monster still open!

[taximan]

New GM Corvette Assembly Plant Manager Jeff Lamarche announces GM will oversee the restoration off all cars recovered from the sinkhole.


does this mean zr-1 body panels?

Thats the same group that runs the GM Heritage collection. The latest word, as per NCM emails last night is, The GM will be taking over the restoration of the vehicles. The early (as still in the hole early) feeling is that a complete resto can be accomplished on all of them. If not, they will be displayed as "survivors cars" with the history of the collapse. You can bet at least one will be part of a Sinkhole Collapse exhibit.

[Kevin]

Who are you kidding Kevin? That '84 Pacer is worth that easily!

Yeah...not really.

[DennisC]

How are they gonna fix sink hole? fill it w concrete? So this does not happen again.

[Jagdpanzer]

Some are speculating it could have been a subterranean heist job gone bad.
Remember the movie "Paint Your Wagon"?

[LGAFF]

How are they gonna fix sink hole? fill it w concrete? So this does not happen again.

Thats exactly how they do it....Grouting is what its called and its $$$, other option is underpinnings, etc....

There was a large sinkhole in BG in 2002, cost $1M to repair

[efnfast]

How are they gonna fix sink hole? fill it w concrete? So this does not happen again.

I would assume some sort of flowable fill, if there is a bottom to that thing.

[Schrade]

I would assume some sort of flowable fill, if there is a bottom to that thing.

At the bottom of the hole are the chinese. Them asians are good for diggin' tunnels. They were lookin' for templates to do fakes.

Look for rice. Not the 4-wheel kind...

[Mystic ZR-1]

How are they gonna fix sink hole? fill it w concrete? So this does not happen again.

There may not be enough concrete...

[Paul Workman]

Some are speculating it could have been a subterranean heist job gone bad.
Remember the movie "Paint Your Wagon"?

:sign10:

"I was born....under a wandering staaaaar!" (sung by Lee Marvin. That movie... What a hoot, pardner!)

[Racinfan83]

I actually want to see how they get the cars out and how they fix the hole. I have my own ideas and wonder if they are on the same line of how it actually goes...
And they will have to send guys down there on rope gear for sure in case of more sinkage.. (as opposed to shrinkage which I would have a massive case of ;) )

[Meanmyz]

At the bottom of the hole are the chinese. Them asians are good for diggin' tunnels. They were lookin' for templates to do fakes.

Look for rice. Not the 4-wheel kind...

Yeah, if we wouldn't have caught this, everything would have been put back to normal like nothin' ever happened. Except on the inside of each of the C4 hoods, right in front of the air cleaner, it woulda said "Made in China".

Very tricky them Chineese! Ha Ha:icon_boun

:jawdrop: :nono:

[scottfab]

There may not be enough concrete...

Well they certainly are enough previous sink holes (~250) such that there must be some experience in the area filling up these things.

I wonder what "oversee" means from GM on rebuilding? Help or just looking in from time to time?

Here is the only spider pic I have from the time back before my brick was laid.

http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2423

[-=Jeff=-]

Here you go.. ZR-1 Spider album
https://plus.google.com/photos/101338012938494992078/albums/5979874635904154081?banner=pwa

[Vetman]

I would hope the extraction is fully documentation by video as well as the condition of the cars once out and the restoration process. I believe this whole ordeal many will find sad, but fascinating!!!

[Meanmyz]

Here you go.. ZR-1 Spider album
https://plus.google.com/photos/101338012938494992078/albums/5979874635904154081?banner=pwa

I have to ask, does anyone know why GM changed the color on this car from silver / yellow to black/red? Any ideas?

While this combination is beautiful, I remember this car coming out about the same time as Callaway's lime green Speedster and I thought silver/yellow was WILD!

I also remember now too, wasn't there a Spyder done in red too? I know there was. It was like Torch Red, but with crushed glass in the paint. ...And no, I am not talking about 50th anniversary paint!

[-=Jeff=-]

Dunno, but the black had a redruby pearl finish. Does anyone know what Year /month it was in vette magazine

[LGAFF]

I have the photo binder from ASC on this car

[Z51JEFF]

I have to ask, does anyone know why GM changed the color on this car from silver / yellow to black/red? Any ideas?

While this combination is beautiful, I remember this car coming out about the same time as Callaway's lime green Speedster and I thought silver/yellow was WILD!

I also remember now too, wasn't there a Spyder done in red too? I know there was. It was like Torch Red, but with crushed glass in the paint. ...And no, I am not talking about 50th anniversary paint!

I always thought there were 2 cars,a silver and a dark red.In fact there was only the one car.

[Meanmyz]

Maybe your right Jeff. But I am on it now...going to look through some old Vette mags. Besides, I promised another member an article from an old mag.

[Z51JEFF]

Maybe your right Jeff. But I am on it now...going to look through some old Vette mags. Besides, I promised another member an article from an old mag.
I remember when this car was built and around that same time I thought there were 2,ASC did one and G.M. either did one or another company one under contract to G.M. did the other.Both cars in question were Spyders with short windshield.

[Meanmyz]

I certainly don't mean to be thowing this thread off topic, but for the sake of good discussion, I want to say "Bingo", because I found an article on the second ASC car. If any of you have it, it is the June '93 issue of Vette (someone please tell me where the last 20 years have gone!).

The second car I am referring to was the ASC LT1 Spyder. This car was built two years after the silver one (debuted at the 1993 NAIAS in Detroit). It was painted Riverside red (a bright red) and had a special intermediate paint coat of mirrored glass suspended in a clear finish, followed by the final clear protective finish.

From what I see of this car, unlike the ZR-1, it didn't have the windshield cut down - at least not at the time of this article.

Give a shout out if any of you want me to post a pic.

[LGAFF]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAY-1991-VETTE-MAGAZINE-92-ZR-1-SPYDER-72-350-COUPE-91-ROAD-TEST-/261385329054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdbc7999e

[Bob Eyres]

I had a bizarre dream last night about this disaster. I had pulled up to the museum in the ZR-1 for the Gathering, and there was a huge blinking neon sign on top, "Corvette Caverns".
Inside, they had partially filled the hole and installed a spiral staircase in the rotunda, leading down into a natural cavern. There were numerous exhibits, and cars were displayed on the cavern floor. "Big Block Grotto", with a light show and a recording of an uncapped L88 blasting through speakers. It was amazing, but cheezy, and way too touristy.
What a great idea!..............Naaaaaaaaah.:eek:

[Z51JEFF]

Maybe your right Jeff. But I am on it now...going to look through some old Vette mags. Besides, I promised another member an article from an old mag.

They are the same car.Theres a picture somewhere of the car as it is now and there are some details on the motor that are this same bright yellow of the interior when it was silver.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a136/FLYTYM/chevrolet-corvette-zr-1-spyder-prototype-interior-photo-525836-s-520x318_zps0fa9a3b1.jpg

[XfireZ51]

Here's the Spyder from a Motor Trend gallery. Originally silver.

http://m.motortrend.com/wot/1402_chevrolet_to_restore_sinkhole_damaged_corvett es.html/2009-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-front-three-quarter-high/

[WARP TEN]

I had a bizarre dream last night about this disaster. I had pulled up to the museum in the ZR-1 for the Gathering, and there was a huge blinking neon sign on top, "Corvette Caverns".
Inside, they had partially filled the hole and installed a spiral staircase in the rotunda, leading down into a natural cavern. There were numerous exhibits, and cars were displayed on the cavern floor. "Big Block Grotto", with a light show and a recording of an uncapped L88 blasting through speakers. It was amazing, but cheezy, and way too touristy.
What a great idea!..............Naaaaaaaaah.:eek:

Not such a crazy idea Bob. Reminds me of the old futuristic Stallone movie "Demolition Man". They went into a museum and stood on a glass floor looking down on an old street scene with a 69 Olds 442 convertible.... -- Bob

[Hog]

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2014/02/13/these-are-the-eight-corvettes-that-fell-into-the-corvette-museums-sinkhole/

I think the main idea for GM "over-seeing" any restoration is to help not only with teh physical restoration, but also to attempt to restore/maintain the image/value of these cars.
That poor ZR-1 Spyder.

[Tripler]

There is a better 6 minute video on YouTube of the sinkhole where they actually FLEW IT LIKE THEY STOLE IT and got the drone in the sinkhole. Guess we are still on for the Gathering or is it too early to know?


Do you have the link ? I never found it :(

[Kevin]

Do you have the link ? I never found it :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FG9_mGWPo

[Tripler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FG9_mGWPo


Ok ,,, Thanks ,,, . Looks like I saw that already . I thought it was with another one from a different mini chopper .

[LGAFF]

Wonder if the museum itself has sinkhole coverage for the building....earth movement is excluded under most base policies. I am not referring to the cars but the building structure.


I believe they are saying now that this is not a covered loss.....

[LGAFF]

#‎Corvette‬ owners! Show your support of the National Corvette Museum by changing your FB avatar and sharing this status!

If you can, please donate at www.corvettemuseum.org (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corvettemuseum.org%2F&h=7AQFGvcLV&enc=AZNuigMmXX7_T_8b79yIMRorNTmlIkEuW5yfP5Bm1OyBLV v1pRjS4aKi-f4jvxiczRYzIncoK-QZ0j0CR4k-5NOIni6J7oIJJN3ZbhDYJ5o88K1mEeUMyXnq9I2cDZXOsXL3pR CFI7QoBZ99ptJ4cEuL&s=1) as we are going to be faced with a deductible and a large expense of sinkhole repair/mitigation that is not covered by insurance.

Thank you!!

[LGAFF]

Its not clear if its saying the building is not covered or just the sinkhole mitigation(they mention a large deductible indicating there is coverage for something).

Generaly is the sinkhole damage is covered to the building so is the grouting and sinkhole mitigation

[Fully Vetted]

So, how does this affect the Gathering itinerary, if at all? We are in effect 12 weeks out. I'm sure they will have done their studies to determine if the rest of the structure is in danger but there's no way they will have it repaired by then. Other than moving the banquet maybe it won't affect us at all.

[RHanselman]

So, how does this affect the Gathering itinerary, if at all? We are in effect 12 weeks out. I'm sure they will have done their studies to determine if the rest of the structure is in danger but there's no way they will have it repaired by then. Other than moving the banquet maybe it won't affect us at all.

As of now we are still on. We also are working backups just in case.

Cheers,

[USAZR1]

Has the NCM re-opened yet?

[-=Jeff=-]

Has the NCM re-opened yet?

Yes I believe it opened the following day last I read

[taximan]

I believe they are saying now that this is not a covered loss.....


Its a covered loss. However, the cost of reinforcing the spire, and other necessary update costs are not covered. I am sure the NCM would appreciate donations to replace those funds.

[efnfast]

I think a single donation from the registry would be better than a bunch of small donations from individuals. It would reflect nicely on the ZR-1 crowd.

[taximan]

Thats a great idea. I think it might be better to wait until they get a handle on the full scope of the job. Maybe then we can put together a group donation on behalf of the Registry ?

I guess the "head honchos" of the Registry have to approve, but I think it would be a great gesture, and show our colors as the ZR1 voice in the Corvette community.

[Mystic ZR-1]

Perhaps present the potential donation at the Gathering in May?

[Fully Vetted]

Time for a special raffle. Any chance a Corvette supply house/speed shop would donate some items for a raffle with the proceeds going to NCM?

[rkreigh]

I'll bid on that ruby. doens't look like it was hurt all that bad

the spider unfortunately wasn't so lucky. what a shame

but they will fix and be as good as new. just takes time and money.

[USAZR1]

Time for a special raffle. Any chance a Corvette supply house/speed shop would donate some items for a raffle with the proceeds going to NCM?


I've got an LT5 cam cover that has been signed by many Corvette luminaries and ZR-1 owners at BG. Would be honored to donate it as a raffle item for the NCM.

[taximan]

Here is the latest repair update:


NCM Ambassador Advocate

February 20, 2014
NCM Update

This week as seen a flurry of activity and it is amazing to watch the team of professionals in place on the skydome project. Some highlights of what has taken place:
Panels have been removed from the outside of the skydome and a bridge built to get equipment from the outside to the same level of the skydome inside.
A new Plexiglas wall has been installed so visitors can now view the sinkhole and the work that is taking place.
The other wall leading into the skydome has a monitor with a live feed of the webcam directed toward the sinkhole for visitors to view.
Continuing meetings by the major players (Scott, Murphy, Daniel Construction, GeoTech Engineering firm Howard Baker, WKU Center for Cave and Karst Studies, Environmental Engineering team and our Insurance group - Chubb) to devise a plan which includes:
Securing the spire

Extracting the three Corvettes on top

Securing and stabilizing the sinkhole area

Extracting remaining Corvettes

Begin remediation of the entire area including exploring the caverns that can be seen.

Finalizing and implementing plans to mitigate entire sinkhole area

Finalizing our plan to repair the skydome floor.

To receive the most up-to-date information, be sure to follow the National Corvette Museum Facebook page.

[Schrade]

...

with a live feed of the webcam directed toward the sinkhole for visitors to view.

...

To receive the most up-to-date information, be sure to follow the National Corvette Museum Facebook page.

Will the webcam be ON THE WEB?

EVERYone will want to see this.

If not, make webcam access available for a fee / NCM Membership, for revenue generation. ;) Thousand$ of viewers x $20, + payment-generated passkey = $$

[efnfast]

There is a live feed, and it looks like they have pulled some of the cars out. Maybe it's just the angle.....anybody know?

[scottfab]

Live webcam feed aimed at sink hole
http://www.corvettemuseum.org/webcam/camera6.shtml

ADDED LATER:
This is not meant to answer anyone's question.
It is meant to inform, anyone that cares, where to see the aforementioned link.

[efnfast]

Well, that didn't answer my question.

[Kevin]

There is a live feed, and it looks like they have pulled some of the cars out. Maybe it's just the angle.....anybody know?

they pulled most of them out of the spire the day the hole opened

[efnfast]

No, the one's in the hole. Where's the 62?

[LGAFF]

They are still there, I can see the C6 ZR1 today; I will say this...there is a good chance Brett Henderson is tunneling under the museum looking to snatch that ZR-1 Spyder from below.

[Schrade]

No, the one's in the hole. Where's the 62?

I think he's talking about the ones still ABOVE, being pulled out of the spire on Day 1...

[XfireZ51]

They are still there, I can see the C6 ZR1 today; I will say this...there is a good chance Brett Henderson is tunneling under the museum looking to snatch that ZR-1 Spyder from below.

Lee,

Who do you think caused the sinkhole in the first place?!!

[efnfast]

No, the one's in the hole. Where's the 62?
:cheers:

[edram454]

They are still there, I can see the C6 ZR1 today; I will say this...there is a good chance Brett Henderson is tunneling under the museum looking to snatch that ZR-1 Spyder from below.

I got a couple of friends from mexico who are working on this project right now. they should be in the center of the dome in a day and a half. That ZR1 is MINE!!!! I will be changing the interior from red to black. fyi.

ed ramos #3028

[Hog]

I got a couple of friends from mexico who are working on this project right now. they should be in the center of the dome in a day and a half. That ZR1 is MINE!!!! I will be changing the interior from red to black. fyi.

ed ramos #3028
You can have the ZR1, I'll take that ZR-1 Spyder.

Sure does look like they have removed soem cars out of the hole, maybe it is the angle of the camera.
This is the type or archiological dig that I could really get into. Shouldnt be too difficult getting the cars out. Move a bit of dirt from around car to allow attachment of straps, have crane take the weight of care, then excavate till the car comes free. Obviously some easier than others.
IIRC the ZR-1 Spyder would be the easiest as the rear end is sticking up in the air.

[Paul Workman]

You can have the ZR1, I'll take that ZR-1 Spyder.

Sure does look like they have removed soem cars out of the hole, maybe it is the angle of the camera.
This is the type or archiological dig that I could really get into. Shouldnt be too difficult getting the cars out. Move a bit of dirt from around car to allow attachment of straps, have crane take the weight of care, then excavate till the car comes free. Obviously some easier than others.
IIRC the ZR-1 Spyder would be the easiest as the rear end is sticking up in the air.

Yeah...but just don't loose your footing. All that dirt went somewhere, and the throat to hopeless doom in the black belly of the beast is right there waiting to swallow you too!!:jawdrop:

[Bob Eyres]

Yeah...but just don't loose your footing. All that dirt went somewhere, and the throat to hopeless doom in the black belly of the beast is right there waiting to swallow you too!!:jawdrop:

Yup, old Lucifer got a look at that "Corvette from Hell" magazine cover and said, "Let's have a look at 'em, pull the plug". :eek:

[scottfab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5FG9_mGWPo

that is just freaking awesome.

[Hog]

Yeah...but just don't loose your footing. All that dirt went somewhere, and the throat to hopeless doom in the black belly of the beast is right there waiting to swallow you too!!:jawdrop:

I hear you, I had it in mind for a crane to lift the cars, and a crane or lift for the workers as well.

Simply walking around with a shovel would easily end you up in the "belly of the beast".

It will be an interesting operation for sure. I hope it all goes well, both for man AND machine.

[A26B]

Here's a different angle from where the webcam is looking. Will help to see where the rest of the cars are. You can see just a rear wheel of one, under a slab of flooring, all under the C6 ZR1.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z224/A26B/MuseumSinkhole2014_zps5580b482.jpg

[USAZR1]

Man,that photo is really depressing to see,Jerry.

[Schrade]

Is there enough of the car next to the wheel to tell which one it is?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FPmlvVSK1nk/Uwua3nj5eeE/AAAAAAAADvI/oiXHcn2pYfM/w690-h465-p/February242014

[We Gone]

Its my understanding the 1984 PPG Pace Car is upside down under the Blue ZR1

[Hog]

I cant believe how much those pics make the cars appear as "dinky" cars.

Looks more complicated than I originally thought.

[scottfab]

I cant believe how much those pics make the cars appear as "dinky" cars.

...snip...


It does. Looks like a kid's back yard sand/dirt box with hot-wheels cars in it. It is still amazing that none of the construction heavy equipment was not lost nor after all these years of folks walking over that area (including my son and me) that no one was hurt.

I hope there are no more sink holes around the area, like the parking lot etc.
Come to think of it, I wonder where all the water run off from the parking lot goes? hmmm

[edram454]

You can have the ZR1, I'll take that ZR-1 Spyder.

Sure does look like they have removed soem cars out of the hole, maybe it is the angle of the camera.
This is the type or archiological dig that I could really get into. Shouldnt be too difficult getting the cars out. Move a bit of dirt from around car to allow attachment of straps, have crane take the weight of care, then excavate till the car comes free. Obviously some easier than others.
IIRC the ZR-1 Spyder would be the easiest as the rear end is sticking up in the air.

The ZR1 spyder IS a Zr1 and that is the only one I care about. I still would change out the red interior. Great car. I saw it in person and I think I stood there 40 minutes. Love it.

[edram454]

It is a hideous photo shot. I see where the zr1 spyder is at. It is 80% buried with just the left rear poking out. That dirt is heavy and I am sure it has done lots of damage. Hate to see these pics actually. I am just glad mine is not in there. It just makes those callaway zr1 spyders more valuable.

[Hog]

The ZR1 spyder IS a Zr1 and that is the only one I care about. I still would change out the red interior. Great car. I saw it in person and I think I stood there 40 minutes. Love it.

A C4 with an OEM LT5 is a ZR-1, a C6 with an OEM LS9 is a ZR1. Nit picky yes, but an important detail as I was "taught" when I 1st joined here.

[efnfast]

Anybody watching the live feed?
Bunch of guys in yellow vests moving transits around, but not much happening.

[Dynomite]

I am guessing here but..........I bet those underground caves have everyone in that area wondering who is next. Time to change some construction site inspection rules at the State level (Pre and Post construction). And time to apply new technology to identify and monitor these underground caves.

[Schrade]

Anybody watching the live feed?
Bunch of guys in yellow vests moving transits around, but not much happening.

I noticed that too there.

Pretty cool job - standin' around and watchin' vettes, and gettin' paid for it.

Kinda' like bunch of guys standing around the back of a pickup truck, hangin' on the sides, lookin' at nothin' in the bed.

Or standing around a camp-fire, watchin' the flames burnin' up.

[A26B]

I am guessing here but..........I bet those underground caves have everyone in that area wondering who is next. Time to change some construction site inspection rules at the State level (Pre and Post construction). And time to apply new technology to identify and monitor these underground caves.

Just my thoughts......

I don't disagree with you and the technology is more than likely( basically geophysical seismic acquisition like we have used in the oil & gas industry for decades only now much more advanced and no "dynomite").

The problem in Karst areas, lies in knowing just how deep and large the "vug" (underground open area) is plus the overlying rock stress characteristics. Vugs & caves may take from hundreds to millions of years to form, depending on the amount of groundwater and resistance of the rock to solubility & erosion.

The roof collapse of a vug or cave may occur from a few feet thick to dozens or more feet. The roof collapse is not always "right under the surface" as it looks afterwards. The collapse may occur tomorrow or hundreds of years from now. There are so many variables that only the most eminent conditions might warrant preventative measures. So, what do you do if you detect a void space, say 112ft from the surface with only an approximation of rock overburden thickness, area and fracture strength, and empty or full of water? Avoid, build, pier, etc....?

To me, it's a bit like forecasting tornadoes. We are getting better, but seldom do we know exactly when or where until it happens. The certainty is only mother nature knows and ultimately she always has her way.

[efnfast]

I noticed that too there.

Pretty cool job - standin' around and watchin' vettes, and gettin' paid for it.

Kinda' like bunch of guys standing around the back of a pickup truck, hangin' on the sides, lookin' at nothin' in the bed.

Or standing around a camp-fire, watchin' the flames burnin' up.

Good thing they don't have shovels to lean on. Yet.

[scottfab]

They were running survey equipment just now.
I wonder if it's still moving?

[Schrade]

They were running survey equipment just now.
I wonder if it's still moving?

I thought so too for a minute there - but early and current photos don't show enough to tell there...

[scottfab]

I thought so too for a minute there - but early and current photos don't show enough to tell there...

I don't know. This crack seems to be getting bigger from my past observations.
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=199&pictureid=2455

[Schrade]

I don't know. This crack seems to be getting bigger from my past observations.
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=199&pictureid=2455

... and I saw that crack too, but couldn't see it in any 'early' snappics...


Good thing they don't have shovels to lean on. Yet.

:sign10:

There's another $million$ there too - an extension from the shovel's handle that 'T's, into an armrest. The end of the shovel CAN'T be too comfy on the pit (or the fore-arm).

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSobuAGF-TcCZN3m5eqt6voHNKxV8kyvD0MZAINBgdcNsdZNwdb

Might be a hard sell to the boss tho'.... :p

In the meantime, they could have a small scaffold bridge with a couple guys suspended, with excavator's vacuums drawing off dirt, until they're ready to latch onto the cars.

[efnfast]

Hey Schrade, how did you get a picture of the guys outside? I thought the only webcam was inside the museum.

[efnfast]

I don't know. This crack seems to be getting bigger from my past observations.
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=199&pictureid=2455

I think there is a beautiful 62' under there holding up that section of floor.

[scottfab]

...snip...
There's another $million$ there too - an extension from the shovel's handle that 'T's, into an armrest. The end of the shovel CAN'T be too comfy on the pit (or the fore-arm).

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSobuAGF-TcCZN3m5eqt6voHNKxV8kyvD0MZAINBgdcNsdZNwdb

Might be a hard sell to the boss tho'.... :p

In the meantime, they could have a small scaffold bridge with a couple guys suspended, with excavator's vacuums drawing off dirt, until they're ready to latch onto the cars.

Hey, give them a break. I mastered the art of leaning on a shovel like that while I was working on the maintenance crew in college. It takes great skill to balance just enough weight on it to relieve the limp leg and yet not fall over. Blame for lingering is invariably the fault of management :p
There is probably no plan yet. Folks are gathered in a think tank (bar) hashing it over :)

[efnfast]

Some guy is shining his light in the hole.
I can't believe how little activity there is there. Must be engineers involved.

[ghlkal]

I think a single donation from the registry would be better than a bunch of small donations from individuals. It would reflect nicely on the ZR-1 crowd.


I guess the "head honchos" of the Registry have to approve, but I think it would be a great gesture, and show our colors as the ZR1 voice in the Corvette community.

Any thoughts on this from the directors?

I'm in for a donation when the time comes

[edram454]

A C4 with an OEM LT5 is a ZR-1, a C6 with an OEM LS9 is a ZR1. Nit picky yes, but an important detail as I was "taught" when I 1st joined here.

Are you kidding?? I would be proud to own either one. The LS-9 has a couple of more hundred horses than the (ZR-1) but who's counting. I guess it should be pronounced (zr-dash-1) if we need to be so correct. So this is the zr-dash-1 net registry now. After looking at the cars I think I would take the (zr1) car instead since it is completely intact and not mess with the zr-dash-1 that is almost totally swallowed up by the sink hole.

[Z51JEFF]

Are you kidding?? I would be proud to own either one. The LS-9 has a couple of more hundred horses than the (ZR-1) but who's counting. I guess it should be pronounced (zr-dash-1) if we need to be so correct. So this is the zr-dash-1 net registry now. After looking at the cars I think I would take the (zr1) car instead since it is completely intact and not mess with the zr-dash-1 that is almost totally swallowed up by the sink hole.

Not me,Id take the Spyder just like it is...................you can keep the dirt:-D

[Paul Workman]

Any thoughts on this from the directors?

I'm in for a donation when the time comes

I think we're all pretty much in agreement to support the NCM in this time of need. As a matter of fact, the subject was informally discussed "out in the hallway", prior to a BOD meeting a day or so after it happened. And, I believe there may be a proposal along those lines in the Members Only section of the Forum in coming days/weeks.

And, since it is the members money, any member is welcome to open a discussion - perhaps in the Members Only section to discuss ideas. In the mean time, I believe the Corvette community at large is still waiting to hear exactly what we can do to best assist the NCM.

P.

[Z51JEFF]

Members Only section of the Forum in coming days/weeks.

And, since it is the members money, any member is welcome to open a discussion - perhaps in the Members Only section to discuss ideas.

Why would this be posted in THE MEMBERS ONLY section?Seems to me this idea could use as much exposure as possible,meaning anybody could see it.You guys amaze the piss out of me,ya really do.Ill make my donation directly to the Museum.

[Dynomite]

Why would this be posted in THE MEMBERS ONLY section?Seems to me this idea could use as much exposure as possible,meaning anybody could see it.You guys amaze the piss out of me,ya really do.Ill make my donation directly to the Museum.

I concur :thumbsup:
Lets keep this on the open forum so we can all participate :handshak:
Either directly or indirectly through the paid membership (Members Money) or even a special fund of support.

[Paul Workman]

Why would this be posted in THE MEMBERS ONLY section?Seems to me this idea could use as much exposure as possible,meaning anybody could see it.You guys amaze the piss out of me,ya really do.Ill make my donation directly to the Museum.

Well, as a non-member, you're certainly free to donate to the NCM on your own, of course. However, if we're talking about the Registry club making a contribution, then understand the Registry is a formal club and the Board of Directors serves at the pleasure of the Members. It's their money, so certainly they are entitled to have a say - as members - on how the Registry spends their money.

The Registry provides this forum at the member's expense, free of charge to NON-MEMBERS like you. And, you're welcome to post on our FREE forums, as long as you abide by the forum rules; nothing preventing you from opening a discussion yourself.

However, short of preventing anyone from discussing this on the General forum as well, if it is OK with you, may I please suggest a discussion among my "constituent members" inviting them to a discussion of ideas having to do especially with Registry financial matters, without you're being "pissed". Otherwise, I don't think I could bear it.

[Dynomite]

If you want to be a part of the Restoration, here are some ways to do that (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/off-topic/3424203-the-national-corvette-museum-can-use-our-help.html) :thumbsup:

CLICK HERE TO BECOME A NATIONAL CORVETTE MUSEUM MEMBER (http://webservices.corvettemuseum.org/PortalTools/NCMF/membership.cfm)

MAKE A DIRECT DONATION TO THE MUSEUM (https://store.corvettemuseum.com/services/buildingform.asp)

[Z51JEFF]

Well, as a non-member, you're certainly free to donate to the NCM on your own, of course. However, if we're talking about the Registry club making a contribution, then understand the Registry is a formal club and the Board of Directors serves at the pleasure of the Members. It's their money, so certainly they are entitled to have a say - as members - on how the Registry spends their money.

The Registry provides this forum at the member's expense, free of charge to NON-MEMBERS like you. And, you're welcome to post on our FREE forums, as long as you abide by the forum rules; nothing preventing you from opening a discussion yourself.

However, short of preventing anyone from discussing this on the General forum as well, if it is OK with you, may I please suggest a discussion among my "constituent members" inviting them to a discussion of ideas having to do especially with Registry financial matters, without you're being "pissed". Otherwise, I don't think I could bear it.

You do what you want...........you guys pretty much do what you want anyway.:-D

[Schrade]

Funny that there's some disagreement here - I've wondered if there will be litigation between NCM, inscos, and lost cars' owners (were any of the cars POV's? )...

[efnfast]

Sounds like you guys are talking about two different donations.
One that would be "hey guys pony up if you like"
One that would come from the registry coffers.
One that comes form the registries coffers should certainly come from the voice of the members.

Schrade, six of the cars were owned by the museum, and two by GM.

[Dynomite]

Sounds like you guys are talking about two different donations.
One that would be "hey guys pony up if you like"
One that would come from the registry coffers.
One that comes form the registries coffers should certainly come from the voice of the members.

Schrade, six of the cars were owned by the museum, and two by GM.

Exactly..........actually 4 types of DONATIONS but ALL for one cause. Kind of like contributing to this Forum which there are many ways :thumbsup:

One..... a special fund were we can All Contribute as Paying and Non Paying Members.
Two..... Joining the Membership of the Museum.
Three..... having the Club contribute using Paid Membership Funds.
Four..... Contributing directly to the Museum.
CF set up an option for an Identifier Tag for members that contribute directly to the Museum.
If you want to be a part of the Restoration, here are some ways to do that (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/off-topic/3424203-the-national-corvette-museum-can-use-our-help.html)

I just do not see that sink hole being filled but could be wrong on that also.

I also think this accident sent a message to everyone in that area (Bowling Green, Kentucky) that anyone could be next which is also of economic concern.

Display of Corvettes BEFORE restoration (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/24/national-corvette-museum-display-sinkhole-cars)

[efnfast]

We also need to wait and see how much of this is covered by insurance.

[Dynomite]

We also need to wait and see how much of this is covered by insurance.

There does exist Sink Hole Insurance (if the Museum has that insurance).....but for structural damage and not repairing the sink hole itself.
See Post #9 If you want to be a part of the Restoration, here are some ways to do that (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/off-topic/3424203-the-national-corvette-museum-can-use-our-help.html)

[Paul Workman]

The Dark Green is my editing additions for ya as I assume you have the same Forum Rules in the Members Only Section

And NON-MEMBERS LIKE Dynomite....who does what??? .....Oh forget it........... It is too complicated.....;)
hmm :handshak:

If you want to be a part of the Restoration, here are some ways to do that (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/off-topic/3424203-the-national-corvette-museum-can-use-our-help.html) :thumbsup:

CLICK HERE TO BECOME A NATIONAL CORVETTE MUSEUM MEMBER (http://webservices.corvettemuseum.org/PortalTools/NCMF/membership.cfm)

MAKE A DIRECT DONATION TO THE MUSEUM (https://store.corvettemuseum.com/services/buildingform.asp)

Jeeeeze... guys! As Brett often reminds us, "Its just a car club!" I think we're in violent agreement here! I was just responding to ghlkal's question regarding what thoughts the Directors have on the NCM donation subject. By Directors, I assumed the question wasn't soliciting personal comments from individual directors like me, but asking more along the lines of what an official response involving the Registry (members) should be. There is a big difference, but not everyone (obviously) understands that.

The Mission Statement for the ZR-1 Net Registry club is "Keeping the Legend Alive". There are formal goals and objectives and dues collected to cover expenses (such as licenses, fees, event promotions (e.g., drag racing at Bowling Green) trophies, event sponsorships, BG gathering (a biggie), etc. and funds are budgeted; ALL in the name of providing the most fun from owning the ZR-1 as possible. There are 9 members on the Board of Directors that volunteer 100s of hours of their time to promote the enjoyment of the club for the members in ways most have no idea; some very visible things such as group purchases, locating supporting vendors and getting member discounts, gathering material and producing a news letter, membership recruiting, financial accounting and reporting, record keeping, etc.

So... When "chit happens" (or sink holes as the case may be) where club resources might be diverted from "Keeping the (ZR-1) Legend Alive", and priorities/budgets that are already in place have to be compromised to accommodate the emergency, MEMBERS have a say in how their club resources are used. That's all.

Individual's, members and non-members alike have good ideas and do a lot to support the hobby; yourself especially, Cliff.:thumbsup: This place wouldn't be the great place it is without that kind of support to fellow Z nuts. That's the reason the forums are open to the public at no charge to members and non-members alike.

But, some are oblivious to how their bread gets buttered, and become petulant at the first sign of things that don't go exactly as they wish.

Dealing with organizations is often frustrating at times, boy-yo-boy (don't get me started!). We can respectfully disagree as adults anytime. But, as soon as someone starts getting derogatory, Forum Rule #5 (among others) kicks in - my meaning in bringing it up... [-X I'd rather be hearing some ideas on how to raise a good amount toward the Museum and promote the Mission of the ZR-1 community at the same time than dealing with "pissy" (spelled with an "I", Cliff...I know you!:p)

[XfireZ51]

We did a Registry donation for the Autopark a few years ago. Why would not something like this use a similar approach?

[Dynomite]

OK Paul :handshak::handshak:

Now lets help out the Museum however we can :thumbsup:
I was just thinking and kind of as Z51JEFF was suggesting........Why not have a contribution from the Registry not to distinguish Non Paying from Paying Membership by letting us Non Paying Members kick in some bucks. All I need to contribute then is your PayPal address.

Jeeeeze... guys! As Brett often reminds us, "Its just a car club!" I think we're in violent agreement here! I was just responding to ghlkal's question regarding what thoughts the Directors have on the NCM donation subject. By Directors, I assumed the question wasn't soliciting personal comments from individual directors like me, but asking more along the lines of what an official response involving the Registry (members) should be. There is a big difference, but not everyone (obviously) understands that.

The Mission Statement for the ZR-1 Net Registry club is "Keeping the Legend Alive". There are formal goals and objectives and dues collected to cover expenses (such as licenses, fees, event promotions (e.g., drag racing at Bowling Green) trophies, event sponsorships, BG gathering (a biggie), etc. and funds are budgeted; ALL in the name of providing the most fun from owning the ZR-1 as possible. There are 9 members on the Board of Directors that volunteer 100s of hours of their time to promote the enjoyment of the club for the members in ways most have no idea; some very visible things such as group purchases, locating supporting vendors and getting member discounts, gathering material and producing a news letter, membership recruiting, financial accounting and reporting, record keeping, etc.

So... When "chit happens" (or sink holes as the case may be) where club resources might be diverted from "Keeping the (ZR-1) Legend Alive", and priorities/budgets that are already in place have to be compromised to accommodate the emergency, MEMBERS have a say in how their club resources are used. That's all.

Individual's, members and non-members alike have good ideas and do a lot to support the hobby; yourself especially, Cliff.:thumbsup: This place wouldn't be the great place it is without that kind of support to fellow Z nuts. That's the reason the forums are open to the public at no charge to members and non-members alike.

But, some are oblivious to how their bread gets buttered, and become petulant at the first sign of things that don't go exactly as they wish.

Dealing with organizations is often frustrating at times, boy-yo-boy (don't get me started!). We can respectfully disagree as adults anytime. But, as soon as someone starts getting derogatory, Forum Rule #5 (among others) kicks in - my meaning in bringing it up... [-X I'd rather be hearing some ideas on how to raise a good amount toward the Museum and promote the Mission of the ZR-1 community at the same time than dealing with "pissy" (spelled with an "I", Cliff...I know you!:p)

[USAZR1]

Dealing with organizations is often frustrating at times, boy-yo-boy (don't get me started!). We can respectfully disagree as adults anytime.


Hang in there,Paul. You're doing a heckuva job and we do appreciate it.

[Hog]

Not me,Id take the Spyder just like it is...................you can keep the dirt:-D

100% agreement.

[efnfast]

Today at the museum we have ...guy in yellow jackets moving tripods around...boring.

[Schrade]

Today at the museum we have ...guy in yellow jackets moving tripods around...boring.

Yeah - but like you said, today they're MOVING!



------------------------------------------------


Anyway here, we're looking at the link that Cliff posted. And I was wondering before, how they guided and turned the survivor cars, once they got ropes tied on for pulling them out of the area.

http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/220/571/0/S2205710/slug/l/06-corvette-museum-sinkhole-1.jpg

Dollies. DuH.

Then I'm lookin' for the pull ropes. Someone is gettin' 'em - right? After all, 'Do Not Touch' / get smudges on the car. And maybe as an ancillary consideration - SAFETY???

Next snappic - off the dollies, and no pull ropes.


http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/220/571/1/S2205711/slug/l/07-corvette-museum-sinkhole-1.jpg

Anyone else think this is a little risky?

[Schrade]

I remember readin' about this car in Vette magazine, around 2000.

Neither Chevy or S Dakota call it a Corvette; but it's titled as a 'Zora-1'.

Technically, it IS an '83, isn't it??? Don't they have a White '83 in there somewhere?

http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/220/572/7/S2205727/slug/l/17-corvette-museum-sinkhole-1.jpg

[Fully Vetted]

Yes. The only one left...


http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=220&pictureid=2458

[Fully Vetted]

Geez, that came out huge! Sorry, guys

[Fully Vetted]

I fixed it...

[cvette98pacecar]

Gentlemen, I have been reading the articles about donating and how to donate. I am big on donating money and or time to improve the quality of life. With that being said If the Registry and her members decide to donate money to any charitable cause might I suggest St. Judes, Toys for Tots or any other organization that improves the quality of life or even just a smile for a second. I am sure the NCM will create a fund raiser of some sort if they need to raise funds.

Just my .02 cents

[Fully Vetted]

Interesting. We're going to get to see the sinkhole cars while we are there for the Gathering...


http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140227/CARNEWS/140229840?utm_source=DailyDrive20140227&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=image2&utm_content=20140227-Sinkhole-Corvettes-to-be-displayed-before-restoration&utm_campaign=awdailydrive

[Dynomite]

Interesting. We're going to get to see the sinkhole cars while we are there for the Gathering...


http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140227/CARNEWS/140229840?utm_source=DailyDrive20140227&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=image2&utm_content=20140227-Sinkhole-Corvettes-to-be-displayed-before-restoration&utm_campaign=awdailydrive

Display of Corvettes BEFORE restoration (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/24/national-corvette-museum-display-sinkhole-cars)

[efnfast]

Crane in the museum now.

[Tripler]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ruP7KdIZA1U

[Tripler]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LbYibMvZDnk

[Tripler]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8G-Ae75g9g

[Schrade]

I've BEEN to the museum, but I can't get a bearing from these 2 webcams ...

:icon_scra

Where in snappic 2 , is the door in the yellow square, from snappic 1 ?

Where in 2, is the circular platform Red 1?



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f3_h4W-Uqp0/UxC94AzrdNE/AAAAAAAADvc/9Ms8igVapwA/w690-h465-p/February282014



In #2, what's the thing @ the arrow ? Where is it in the above shot???

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HUtTuukjFCc/UxC-s9m5B2E/AAAAAAAADvo/fuZDS3cuA7o/w780-h530-p/20140228

From what point might the crane lift?

[A1990]

I think the doors on the sphere and the relation to the hole gives you an idea about where the door is. Behind the sphere.

[BigJohn]

I've BEEN to the museum, but I can't get a bearing from these 2 webcams ...

:icon_scra

Where in snappic 2 , is the door in the yellow square, from snappic 1 ?

Where in 2, is the circular platform Red 1?



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-f3_h4W-Uqp0/UxC94AzrdNE/AAAAAAAADvc/9Ms8igVapwA/w690-h465-p/February282014



In #2, what's the thing @ the arrow ? Where is it in the above shot???

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HUtTuukjFCc/UxC-s9m5B2E/AAAAAAAADvo/fuZDS3cuA7o/w780-h530-p/20140228

From what point might the crane lift?


Your red arrow is pointing at part of the crane.

[Schrade]

Your red arrow is pointing at part of the crane.

No - not the boom - but the black thing background. WTH is that? And where is it in the other pic?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HUtTuukjFCc/UxC-s9m5B2E/AAAAAAAADvo/fuZDS3cuA7o/w780-h530-p/20140228

[Schrade]

One of the guys strapping on a suspension harness?


ed.:
The guy with his back to the cam (2nd attachment) is putting on some type of harness, and the others are checking it over. Someone going spelunking here???

[Schrade]

Sunlight is really f^&%ing with Cam2. Someone call Strode and get him to shade it???

http://www.zr1.net/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Schrade]

Another piece of heavy equipment comin' in there...

[Schrade]

Range Finder? Laser? Definitely not a regular flashlight...


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qVmEil5oanQ/UxD7Hi-pl9E/AAAAAAAADwE/1YFTBAT52SA/w1248-h848-p/February28201402

[-=Jeff=-]

what are you watching it all day?

[We Gone]

Monday will be the day to watch.

[Schrade]

what are you watching it all day?

Hell yeah! Better than reality TV for sure. No charge for color commentary play-by-play.


What ARE they waiting for anyway? Chinese team called Time Out to ice the kicker?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qdvUYOlfs5w/UxED9LqOxFE/AAAAAAAADwc/_hU5wEqbErE/s864-c/2014022802.jpg

[John Boothby]

Range Finder? Laser? Definitely not a regular flashlight...


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qVmEil5oanQ/UxD7Hi-pl9E/AAAAAAAADwE/1YFTBAT52SA/w1248-h848-p/February28201402

I believe that is an "electronic yardstick". We used them in the appraisal industry.

[Schrade]

I don't know. This crack seems to be getting bigger from my past observations.
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=199&pictureid=2455

Looks like the museum staff heard ya' there Scott - that piece is right on top of the '62, I believe, and it's now afforded some extra protection with some lashing:

[Schrade]

Webcam 2 went to pan from zoom. WTF?

Called the museum, got a labor crewman on the phone - he said the pan switch was by order.

Was the crane boom hitting the light structure @ 10:55:34 AM by order too? :p Anyone else catch that?

[Hog]

Big boom in there now.

[We Gone]

Looks like they are putting slings under the Blue ZR1, Looks ready to come out

[Dynomite]

Looks like they are putting slings under the Blue ZR1, Looks ready to come out

This is like watching bread raise :p
Pow Wow is over.
Back on Mon.

[efnfast]

Looks like they are putting slings under the Blue ZR1, Looks ready to come out

I believe they are pulling the wheels and putting adapters on for the sling to hook to.

[RodB]

They put the slings on Saturday afternoon and actually lifted it a few feet by 5pm. Couldn't tell where the slings are placed but I don't think they removed the wheels because there were only two guys in the bucket and only one got out to get to the spire side of the car. Only took about twenty minutes on the car itself and then they hooked it to the lifting beam. They should lift it Monday and reported the anniversary car would be out next. Wonder when they will pull the '62 as I thought it was mostly above the sinkhole but was in a precarious position.

[Racinfan83]

They are supposed to pull one out at 9CT.
I have not watched the live cam yet - just pulled it up. The picture is horrible. Is there a way to fix it so it is not so grainy?

[efnfast]

I just found the second cam. The one looking in the hole is pretty boring. The other shows some activity.

[Racinfan83]

Well they are down in there now. My pic is so bad and keeps stopping I may have to say forget it...

[Dynomite]

There is a third live stream here......
Third Live Stream (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/national-corvette-museum)

[Racinfan83]

Man - how anybody can watch these webcam deals is beyond me. Horrible. I get a frame about every 5 seconds. And I have like 20meg cable internet. Think I will have to wait for the DVD of all the rescues to come out...

[We Gone]

Must be a lot of people logged in today was much better feed over the weekend.

[Schrade]

Must be a lot of people logged in today was much better feed over the weekend.

Yup - insufficient bandwidth, I do believe...

[Schrade]

Beautiful...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6d9JX21DI_c/UxSvUEY5VJE/AAAAAAAADw0/d0Me1R3WwrU/s864-c/March32014.jpg

[scottfab]

lift sequence below. The recovery has begun.
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2465
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2466
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2467
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2468

[Schrade]

Yep - 1 down [UP]; 7 to go...

lift sequence below. The recovery has begun.
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2465
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2466
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2467
http://zr1.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=194&pictureid=2468

[Schrade]

I'm surprised that they drove it off.

I'm goin' out on a limb here... I don't think any others are gonna' get out on their own power...

[Schrade]

Man - how anybody can watch these webcam deals is beyond me. Horrible. I get a frame about every 5 seconds. And I have like 20meg cable internet. Think I will have to wait for the DVD of all the rescues to come out...

If you're in a Linux / Unix environment, open up a command line interface, and execute <ping corvettemuseum.org>

Ping response facilitates smoother dataflow, regardless of bandwidth. Think of it as oil reducing friction in a mechanical system. Or in an 'organic' system, think of Mel Tillis...

Windows ping command limits to 4 ping requests. In 'nix's, ping is interminable.

(benefits of Linux are interminable as well - free, more secure, faster, etc., ad infinitum ;) you should see a virus trying to attack a Linux machine - funny as hell)

[scottfab]

If you're in a Linux / Unix environment, open up a command line interface, and execute <ping corvettemuseum.org>

Ping response facilitates smoother dataflow, regardless of bandwidth. Think of it as oil reducing friction in a mechanical system. Or in an 'organic' system, think of Mel Tillis...

Windows ping command limits to 4 ping requests. In 'nix's, ping is interminable.

(benefits of Linux are interminable as well - free, more secure, faster, etc., ad infinitum ;) you should see a virus trying to attack a Linux machine - funny as hell)

There should be no need for multiple "ping"s. A few pings is all that is needed to be registered in the "arp" cache in each server/router along the path. Once in the arp cashe(table) it does indeed "lubricate" the flow in that the DNS lookup for the target no longer needs to be looked up. A better way is a trace route (tracert) command since on most servers the info is kept longer (timeout for data).
There are various incantations of this but the simplest is:
tracert corvettemuseum.org
Then sit back and watch the path your network request takes through all them there pieces of hardware.

Another little secret is to do multiple browser requests for the address. That is if you notice a delay in getting to you target address simply resubmit the address OR "refresh" the page request. It's like punching a hole through a clogged sewer line with a snake :blahblah:
Doesn't mater what browser, what OS, what hardware or what day of the week it is. This works.

[Racinfan83]

If you're in a Linux / Unix environment, open up a command line interface, and execute <ping corvettemuseum.org>

Ping response facilitates smoother dataflow, regardless of bandwidth. Think of it as oil reducing friction in a mechanical system. Or in an 'organic' system, think of Mel Tillis...

Windows ping command limits to 4 ping requests. In 'nix's, ping is interminable.

(benefits of Linux are interminable as well - free, more secure, faster, etc., ad infinitum ;) you should see a virus trying to attack a Linux machine - funny as hell)

There should be no need for multiple "ping"s. A few pings is all that is needed to be registered in the "arp" cache in each server/router along the path. Once in the arp cashe(table) it does indeed "lubricate" the flow in that the DNS lookup for the target no longer needs to be looked up. A better way is a trace route (tracert) command since on most servers the info is kept longer (timeout for data).
There are various incantations of this but the simplest is:
tracert corvettemuseum.org
Then sit back and watch the path your network request takes through all them there pieces of hardware.

Another little secret is to do multiple browser requests for the address. That is if you notice a delay in getting to you target address simply resubmit the address OR "refresh" the page request. It's like punching a hole through a clogged sewer line with a snake :blahblah:
Doesn't mater what browser, what OS, what hardware or what day of the week it is. This works.

Ok guys I'm gonna really sound like a dumb:censored: here - but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about :confused:
No idea what Linux or Unix is. I run Vista on a 5 yr old HP laptop. What is a "command line interface"? Or a "tracert"? Now the "multiple browser request" deal I can figure that out. Just keep hittin "refresh" on the webcam page correct?:confused: