P Side Cruise Module access; gotta' yank the dash? [Snappic]

[Schrade]

Anyone been here - Cruise Module under passenger side dash? FSM says start with jumpers on a couple of the CCM circuits under P side dashboard. Can it be accessed from under the dash on P Side? Or does the dash have to come out?

Radio Receiver Box = Data Control Module??? Or are they 2 different varmints?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PhbyrafZEao/UiFe8VkuqtI/AAAAAAAABwI/M3HdVwYOXkI/s1280/IMG_5587.JPG

[gbrtng]

Remove the radio receiver from below - then you have access to the cruise module. Be durned sure the module is bad first because that stuff is pretty much a mess to work on, especially if you are 73 years old and don't bend easily anymore. Ask how I know ...

[Schrade]

Still lost here - is the CC module accessible from under the P side? Or the center console?

[vilant]

Don't have time to look the answer up for ya, as I'm ready to leave but, if you go to the parts list in the members section on the home page (I think if you click on members, then welcome) you'll find it has the entire car dissected. Look under electrical or whatever the best category the CC is in (can't remember the categories). Hope that helps:cheers:.

[Franke]

Schrade, the FSM shows that it is accessible from the passenger side by removing the lower RH trim panel then the radio receiver. (The radio receiver is a seperate box from the radio control head in the center part of the dash). The CC unit is screwed on to the radio receiver box on the top.

[mike100]

I was able to get my radio rcvr out, without much disassembly, but putting it back in was a little harder. I think I just was able to reattach one side of it with the 10mm screw and jammed a little foam in there somewhere to keep it from bouncing around. You have to be careful to not break one of the plastic mounting ears...or just velcro the whole mess back in there (which is exactly what they ended up doing on the 94-96 cars when they relocated it to the rear storage bin).

[gbrtng]

see my message #2 - the word "below" has meaning.

[Schrade]

Schrade, the FSM shows that it is accessible from the passenger side by removing the lower RH trim panel then the radio receiver. (The radio receiver is a seperate box from the radio control head in the center part of the dash). The CC unit is screwed on to the radio receiver box on the top.

Got it there Franke - just got the back-killer (p side seat) out, for ease-of access...




Don't have time to look the answer up for ya, as I'm ready to leave but, if you go to the parts list in the members section on the home page (I think if you click on members, then welcome) you'll find it has the entire car dissected. Look under electrical or whatever the best category the CC is in (can't remember the categories). Hope that helps:cheers:.
Probably is everything there, Vilant - except what I need.

No mention anywhere of the control module, or 'surging Cruise', after following 1st 4 links with 'Cruise' search criteria... :neutral:

I got it all forthwith here...

[Schrade]

Does this lower carpeted panel separate from under the dash?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2627&d=1377991841[/url]
[IMG]http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2627&d=1377991841

[geezer]

Shrade; If memory serves There is an attachment screw hiding in the fuse holder area to the left.

[Schrade]

see my message #2 - the word "below" has meaning.


Got it there Bill - just trying to see the 'target' from above here, as well as below...

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2628&d=1377994870

[Schrade]

Shooting in the dark. :-x (can't see squat)

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2629&d=1377995142

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2630&d=1377995142

[geezer]

Chuck: As stated by others previously the radio Control Module (or CDM I believe) has to be removed to get at the Cruise Module which is on top of the CDM. So this "how to'
clip should give you an idea of what you are up against. Open this site & check out the CDM removal clip. A real PITA !

http://www.carstereohelp.com/strcorvetteAd.htm

[Schrade]

FSM says CC Module is sitting on top of the 'Radio Receiver Box'.

This metallic box is the RRB???

I don't see anything on top of it, except for Bob's writing CarStereoHelp.com, and the RRB sitting not in the LOOSE plastic holder, but on to of the antennae cable. SOMEone has been in here, and NOT put everything back.

32k car shouldn't look like this.

Anyway, anyone see in my pic, where I need to look for the Cruise module?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2631&d=1377997247

[Schrade]

Chuck: As stated by others previously the radio Control Module (or CDM I believe) has to be removed to get at the Cruise Module which is on top of the CDM. So this "how to'
clip should give you an idea of what you are up against. Open this site & check out the CDM removal clip. A real PITA !

http://www.carstereohelp.com/strcorvetteAd.htm

ha - looks like you posted right before I did there geezer - I was editing.

I've seen Bob's Y/T video before - and after I saw it, I found that he's had his hands in my car before, and it looks like everything was not put back as it shows in the FSM diagram in post #1. THAT makes it a little more difficult.

Break time, to read some FSM...


ed.:
I can't say that it was Bob didn't get all the parts back in place. The name on the head unit, and on the DCM / receiver box, is from Texas, so Mr. Baber might be the one who did dis-assembly and re-assembly...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-K-Kyide0b0w/USgVNz_lxYI/AAAAAAAAA9I/BOSbBAsi8ck/s1280/IMG_5109c.JPG

[Franke]

Wonder where the CCM went if not found on top of the radio receiver box. If someone was in there before you then it could be hanging loose somewhere otherwise the FSM is wrong for your MY. After watching that video of the RRB removal I think i'd rather have a root canal done.

[geezer]

Shrade: The AWOL CCM should have left behind a Blk 12 pin connector with this wiring:

2-gry/blk
gry
dk.blu
dk.grn
drk/wht

This is my interpretation of the available FSM info. Not really a wiring expert so....
Any evidence of this??

[Z51JEFF]

I dont think the CCM is attached to the CDM,it wasn't in my 91.When I had the CDM out of my car,putting that SON @F A B#TCH back in the car was all I could concentrate on.BIGGEST,BIGGEST,BIGGEST pain in the a$$ job Ive ever worked on.If this thing goes out again,Ill tear the entire system out and put something else in.Did I mention it was a pain in the a$$?:-D

[WVZR-1]

The "cruise module" in real life:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1992-C4-CORVETTE-OEM-CRUISE-CONTROL-MODULE-25110888-GA-EXCELLENT-/261155374010?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cce12c3ba


That is the correct part for '90 - '92 Corvette also and the label will be displayed confirming the part # 25110888. The label will be on the bottom and I would think NOT visible from under the dash. The j-nuts shown in the eBay image is the way I believe it's attached in the car. Your FSM image doesn't appear correct for your '90.

#6 in this image is the bracket that the relays attatch to and the cruise module is mounted to the top of that I believe. Pay no attention to the center panel and the radio control head in the image. It's just a "component" image.

http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u595/wvzr-1/CruiseBracket_zpse0b47215.png (http://s1323.photobucket.com/user/wvzr-1/media/CruiseBracket_zpse0b47215.png.html)



In the FSM Book1 pages 8C24 - 8C25 show you what you should have expected. The cruise module is above and not attached to the CDM.

[Schrade]

I think my Cruise Module has wings. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2431&d=1296367714

Dash is comin' out shortly here.

[Schrade]

Dash pad removal; TOO MANY SCREWS.

Dis-assembly RULE OF THUMB - PUT SCREWS BOLTS BACK IN THE EMPTY HOLE, AFTER THE PIECE IS OUT OF THE WAY - ANY CAR PIECE.

Take about double the time to put them in the empty hole, after the part is out of the way, but this way, you know which screw goes where.

Dash breakdown - too many screws don't go back, before the part is out of the way. Tape them into / onto the piece from where they came.

Now the time for a job begins to not double, but EXPONENTIATE. Webster definition of a pain - working on this (snappic of a vette).

Z-word for the day - task EXPONENTIATION...


http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2634&d=1378151051

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2635&stc=1&d=1378152035


and this hairy piece of carpet backing? What's he doing in there?

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2636&stc=1&d=1378152035

[geezer]

.... and the Cruise Control Module is behind door #.... ????? :)

[Franke]

Holy cow. Wonder were the ccm went to? While you,re at it you might as well dust off the back of the engine too.:)

[Schrade]

DCM.

In a moment, you'll see why the DCM is a CAKEWALK, compared to the Cruise Module yUp UH-hUh

In this pic, you can see the DCM behind the dash framework.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2637&stc=1&d=1378153464

'A' represents the same 'A', in the FSM snappic, of one of the Cruise holder screws - below.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2639&stc=1&d=1378154153

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2638&stc=1&d=1378153851

[Schrade]

.... and the Cruise Control Module is behind door #.... ????? :)Answer 'D' there geezer - NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!!!!!!

Try this:

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbhcxb3vxoIQp1TDUlu_vg0Q-0JKNrNZhKY_B0Hewg323LOMx58g

Quick check of Cruise Module Wiring colors in Schematic WIRING DIAGRAM FSM APPEARS to confirm that the harness visible in the last pic, previous post above IS Cruise Mod harness.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2640&stc=1&d=1378155191

[WVZR-1]

The wire bundle you point towards and ??? is likely the cruise module bundle. Should be 12 wires and the color codes are mentioned several posts ago. I did NOT bother to confirm them. The hex of the bolts is pointed towards the floor of the car and if you wanted to remove the module you would do it "under the dash". Are you attempting to wire the cruise to the trans still?

What progress have you actually made? Are the "mechanicals" somewhat trouble free now? The leaks etc?

[Schrade]

The wire bundle you point towards and ??? is likely the cruise module bundle. Should be 12 wires and the color codes are mentioned several posts ago. I did NOT bother to confirm them. The hex of the bolts is pointed towards the floor of the car and if you wanted to remove the module you would do it "under the dash". Are you attempting to wire the cruise to the trans still?

What progress have you actually made? Are the "mechanicals" somewhat trouble free now? The leaks etc?

Yes - all with the tranny is fine now, except Cruise Control has a 2 MPH 'swing'.

I am attempting to diagnostics for 'Surging Cruise Control', as per FSM diags.

I believe it is related NOT to the tranny install, but related to the 'off idle sag' - the delayed throttle response - no Codes. Perhaps something will show in 'Surging Cruise Diags', in like manner as codes often defer to ANOTHER code.

So it's not hard enough as is, but I got 'helpers'; UNwelcome at that:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2641&stc=1&d=1378157641

Blood Bank is down the street, motherfuc&^% !!! And you ain't gonna' make it!

Only thing you gonna' get from me anyway is Bicardi & Orange Juice.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2642&stc=1&d=1378158020

[Schrade]

Ain't no wonder they call it 'Labor Day'. :rolleyes:

So we are now NO CLOSER to the Cruise Module, but here's where we are:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2643&stc=1&d=1378158489


Then only the fuseblock, which is attached to the BACK of the DCM mounting plate, is the only thing impeding removal of the mount plate.

At this point, the plate can be carefully pushed forward, and 'pitched' forward, to remove the fuse block - see 2nd snappic.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2644&stc=1&d=1378158949

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2645&stc=1&d=1378159106

[Schrade]

Push pin 'A', and push UPWARD on the fuse block.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2649&stc=1&d=1378160378


http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2647&stc=1&d=1378159835

[Schrade]

HOUSTON; THIS EAGLE HAS LANDED.


http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2651&stc=1&d=1378162408


http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2650&stc=1&d=1378161731

[Schrade]

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2652&stc=1&d=1378162572

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2653&stc=1&d=1378162681

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2654&stc=1&d=1378162681

[Franke]

Wow. They built the car around the cruise module.:)

[Schrade]

Wow. They built the car around the cruise module.:) I think they did there Franke...

So test time. Everything hooked back up dry, and test per FSM flow chart.

First test I presume is to test the Cruise Servo Activation / request.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2655&stc=1&d=1378165933

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2656&stc=1&d=1378165933

[Schrade]

Then the jumper wires in the sockets...

(noticed a fresh bloom in the garden) :)

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2657&stc=1&d=1378166282

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2658&stc=1&d=1378166282

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2659&stc=1&d=1378166627



The jumpers did NOT peg the Cruise servo, for Cruise request.

Should have done so, because the Cruise DOES work, although with the surge / 2MPH swing.

ANYONE SO FAR? Before I go to the 'NO' response in the flow chart???

[Schrade]

Alright; let's go to the 'No' servo response...

"Test for continuity / short to ground on Circuit 403"

This means test Socket 'A' for 12V input? (or 5V input??? )
And test Socket 'C' for a good ground???

[Franke]

Schrade, I would repeat the test to make sure the proper sequence is followed. The servo should have pulled in. You might be gettin' tired by now. Nice flower by the way.

[Schrade]

Recycled the 'Cruise Servo Request' test.

It failed.

Analysis:

As best as I can tell, 'Run the engine for one minute', before this first test, is to build vacuum in the Cruise servo reservoir (it sure won't go Closed Loop in < 1 minute), and see that it holds vacuum, while the 2nd jumper is put in place - terminals G and K.


Servo Failure subsequent test, on flow chart, is continuity on Circuit 403, from Cruise Module Connector, to Cruise Servo.

Dis-connect the Servo Connector, alligator clip on 'C' terminal of Cruise Module harness, another on the Servo harness connector:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2662&stc=1&d=1378227320

and get a reading:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2663&stc=1&d=1378227320

It passed for continuity. And it would not ground out a 12V source (short to ground).

PASS, for continuity test ---> now test Circuit 402.

(if you pace your life with your thumbs, on your digital device / phone / etc., and you can follow this, you're sharp. My pics, and explanation DO make it easier, HUH? ;) )

Circuit 402 passed for continuity as well, and ALSO would not ground out 12V (short to ground).

Next flow chart step is vac leaks; Servo Reservoir first...

[Schrade]

Does the reservoir ball for the Cruise Servo have a diaphragm in it?

[Franke]

Hmmm... never took one apart but I would think it would have to have some kind of check valve to prevent loss of vacuum when the manifold vacuum drops due to engine acceleration. Not sure on that though.
I had a slight vac leak at the double rubber connector right under the plenum near the power steering pump. The rubber was spongy due to the years of use. PO used black RTV and just goobered it all over the connector in an attempt to fix the leak. It worked for a while until I bought the car. I fixed it permanetly with new fuel line hose for both ports when I pulled the plenum. No more leaks. Do you have a mitey vac pump to test the reservoir?

[Schrade]

I went to buy one @ Advance. Manager said the [rental] was better. Plugged it in @ #1, with the Check Valve capped off @ A:

http://www.zr1.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2664&stc=1&d=1378250145

It held vacuum (after quite a few squeezes).

Then flipped it around, measured @1, with vent #2 capped, and Brake Pedal kill port #3 capped.

IT held.

Then @ #2, with #1 and #3 capped; ditto.

And @ #3, #2 and #1 capped. Also held.

Then flipped the pump @ #3. The Brake Pedal vac line did NOT hold vacuum.

Apparently, the shop that did the A4 swap did not get the Brake Pedal kill port properly seated.

Haven't finished on that line yet, to confirm...

Could this vac leak also cause the 'off idle sag'???

[Franke]

Well, if the off idle sag occurs when the car is not moving (reving it up) I would say no. It could be a vacuum leak when cruise is engaged if I am reading this correctly. I think this could possibly be the cruise setting +-2 mph error. That (#3 test) vacuum release port should hold vacuum until the brake pedal is depressed. There must be a problem with this right at the brake pedal. Possibly maladjusted or ???? The vacuum source for this circuit is directly off the intake plenum in following the hose routing.