DOHC comes back?

[LGAFF]

Anyone see the new Ford Mustang GT has a 5.0 that is knocking out 412 NA HP @ 6500? That equates to a 12.8 @110....not bad...will be interesting to see more specifics as the engine comes out.

Wonder if there any ideas we can steal?

PS Pete it has electric power steering:)

[Kevin]

fords been running dohc in mustang cobras since 96 and sohc in mustangs also since 96...I think the sohc came in the crown vic around 93-94ish? I love the new mustang

[LGAFF]

I know that, but they have not come close to 400hp without forced induction......fuel economy is better than the 3 valve 4.6....K&N did an independent test of the motor, coming up with almost 440hp.

Electric power steering:


http://www.flamingriver.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=479/category_id=210/home_id=210/mode=prod/prd479.htm

[Kevin]

this is true, the new 5.0 is going to be a beast.

[Paul Workman]

DOHC Moostang... I love it! May it light a fire under Corvette!!:cheers:

P.

[LGAFF]

http://50mustangsuperfords.automotive.com/131773/m5lp-1003-2011-ford-mustang-gt-50-coyote-engine/5-0-tech-specs.html

5.0 Tech Specs
5.0 4V TiVCT V-8


First Model Year 2011
Engine Family Modular
Code Name Coyote
Displacement 4957cc (302 ci)
Bore x Stroke 92.2 x 92.8mm (3.263 x 3.647 inch)
Horsepower

412 hp @ 6,500 rpm, 91 octane
402 hp @ 6,500 rpm, 87 octane
Torque

390 lb-ft @ 4,250 rpm, 91 octane
377 lb-ft @ 4,250 rpm, 87 octane
Shipping Weight 430 pounds, includes water pump
Block Low-pressure cast 319 aluminum, pressed-in thin-wall iron liners
Bore Spacing 100mm (3.937-inch)
Deck Height 227mm (8.937-inch)
Deck Thickness 13mm (0.510-inch)
Cylinder Head Retention 12mm bolts, 4 per cylinder, 10 bolts total per bank


Oil 5W/20 weight, mineral
Oil Pan Stamped steel, 8 quarts
Windage Tray Integral w/oil pan gasket
Oil Pump Gerotor
Pistons Hypereutectic, short-skirt, flat-top w/four equal valve reliefs; moly friction-reducing coating; oil-jet cooled
Piston weight 500 grams
Piston Pin Full-floating, 22mm diameter
Piston Pin Retention Wire lock
Piston Rings 1.2 x 1.2 x 2.5 mm, moly top ring
Connecting Rod Powered metal forging, I-beam, no balance pad
Connecting Rod Length 150.7mm (5.933-inch)
Rod/Stroke Ratio 1.62
Crankshaft Forged steel, fully counterweighted, induction hardened
Main Journal 67.5mm (2.652-inch) diameter
Rod Journal 53.0mm (2.082-inch) diameter


Flywheel Retention Eight-bolt
Cylinder Heads Aluminum, four-valve per cylinder
Head Bolts 12mm, four per cylinder
Valve Covers Composite
Compression ratio 11.0:1
Valves 37 x 31mm (1.454 x 1.218-inch), four per cylinder
Camshafts DOHC, four camshafts, independently adjustable timing
Camshaft Timing Twin independent variable
Duration 260 degrees intake, 263 degrees exhaust
Lift 12mm (0.472-inch) intake, 11mm (0.432-inch) exhaust
Lift Limit 13mm (0.510-inch) physical limit in head
Valve Followers Roller-finger follower
Lash Adjusters Hydraulic
Coolant Organic (red)



Exhaust Manifold Short-tube, S44100 stainless-steel Tri-Y tubular headers; 10mm mounting studs w/prevailing torque nuts
Intake Manifold Constant cross section, long-runner single-plane (single-scroll); molded composite w/upper section colored; front throttle body mount
Throttle Body Single-blade, 80mm, e-throttle
Engine Management Software Copperhead
Mass Air Meter 86mm, digital
Oxygen Sensors Universal Exhaust Gas
Knock Sensors Two, in block valley
Ignition Timing Crank trigger, rear of crankshaft
Ignition Coil-on plug
Spark Plug NGK Iridium
Firing Order 1 5 4 8 6 3 7 2
Cylinder Numbering

Right bank: 1, 2, 3, 4
Left bank: 5, 6, 7, 8
Fuel System Port fuel injection, returnless
Fuel Injectors 32.8-lb/hr
Fuel Pressure 55 psi
Fuel Requirement 87 octane minimum, 91 octane best/rated power

[bb62]

fords been running dohc in mustang cobras since 96 and sohc in mustangs also since 96...I think the sohc came in the crown vic around 93-94ish? I love the new mustang

Modular V8 came online for the 1991 model year.

[XfireZ51]

Anyone see the new Ford Mustang GT has a 5.0 that is knocking out 412 NA HP @ 6500? That equates to a 12.8 @110....not bad...will be interesting to see more specifics as the engine comes out.

Wonder if there any ideas we can steal?

PS Pete it has electric power steering:)

Direct Injection?

[LGAFF]

Nope, direct injection was not in the budget.....although casting is set up for it down the road.

[Aurora40]

Equally impressive is their new V6 that makes 305hp and gets >30mpg on the EPA's 2008+ highway test. You can get a 300hp 6-speed manual and a warranty for about $23k sticker.

They also have a V6 performance package that adds the GT suspension, but it isn't out yet. I assume you could get that on a base coupe for a real performance bargain, but who knows.

[scholtmj]

Posted this a while back:
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10824

GM will put DOHC/cam phasing/DI on a V8. If anyone read the latest Automobile magazine (i think) they quoted a GM engineer not ruling out turbo V6 power in the C7 Vette. That move was compared to ditching flip-up headlights for the C6; part of evolution for performance.

[rkreigh]

good article in the latest car mags, the pony car wars between the mustang and camaro are alive and well

they are almost a dead heat, with the LS3 taking just a bit of a top end charge dispite the better power to weight of the mustang (torq of the larger LS3 displacement)

keep in mind the "little" rustang motor makes almost a much HP from a smaller displacement

the thought of a twin turbo version of this motor sounds pretty good,

I actually do like the looks of the new car, except the back end

but I'm not a huge fan of the camaro styling either

love to see a DOHC chevy motor, as many remember the new "5.4" version of the northstar was going to come out before GM ran out of dough and the new CAFE hit the streets.

all about the MPG across the fleet and the dev costs of a new engine are staggering

GM could build a "V8 ecotec" with twin turbos and direct injection with just a few new parts in the bucket, but certification and tooling ain't cheap

love to see it. a fully ported ecotec head flows pretty good

as many of you remember, 1100+ hp in a certain ecotec :jawdrop:

4 cyl variety

[LGAFF]

As much as I like the concept of a 412hp 5.0 American engine, I hate to see a mustang out perform a stock Z....kinda starts to date our cars. But they really pulled out all the stops on this one, even has headers from the factory, and clearly there will be no more to gain on this motor from exhaust mods.

[Kevin]

As much as I like the concept of a 412hp 5.0 American engine, I hate to see a mustang out perform a stock Z....kinda starts to date our cars. But they really pulled out all the stops on this one, even has headers from the factory, and clearly there will be no more to gain on this motor from exhaust mods.
never forget that one is made to drag race and sorta turn and the other is made to turn and sorta drag race

[tomtom72]

JMHO, I'll go along with the "dating" of our motors....but our motor's official company sponsored development stopped some time nearly twenty years ago, and that's a very long time to have to engineer improvements into a DOHC/4V format. No?

No sour grapes, kudos to the blue oval boys for taking a different path and coming up with something that looks to be sweet for the street.:thumbsup:

I would like to know how they got past what GM said were the prohibitive production costs? Are the Ford modular family of motors that much less expensive to build? Why? Poor quality control? Cheap machining? Cheap internal parts? Their list of parts looks pretty good...I guess I don't understand.:icon_scra

:confused:
Tom

[Kevin]

JMHO, I'll go along with the "dating" of our motors....but our motor's official company sponsored development stopped some time nearly twenty years ago, and that's a very long time to have to engineer improvements into a DOHC/4V format. No?

No sour grapes, kudos to the blue oval boys for taking a different path and coming up with something that looks to be sweet for the street.:thumbsup:

I would like to know how they got past what GM said were the prohibitive production costs? Are the Ford modular family of motors that much less expensive to build? Why? Poor quality control? Cheap machining? Cheap internal parts? Their list of parts looks pretty good...I guess I don't understand.:icon_scra

:confused:
Tom
well if they've stepped up from the powdered metal connecting rods that are in my daily driver 2v that would be nice. perhaps the price of parts came down, perhaps gm was full of it,

[LGAFF]

Here is the responsed to direct injection quesiton, the article is pretty good.......

As a Coyote team engineer put it, "On a naturally-aspirated engine, the biggest benefit of DI is charge cooling-and it's a volumetric efficiency benefit and not a tolerance benefit. We squirt the injectors while the [intake] valve is open, and it's open a long time, which we haven't done before. It seems simple and gets you half the benefit of DI-for no costs at all."

The only apparent downside is cylinder-wall washing at low engine speeds, so the injector is limited to closed-valve periods at low rpm. Also, the camshafts change valve timing, so that's something else to synchronize with the injector in the engine management calibration.

[LT-5 Music]

Evolution Performance http://www.facebook.com/pages/Evolution-Performance-Inc/262882950647 has been working on one. Very complicated to tune 'em they said. Best time so far I think is 12.04 @117mph - 1.70 60ft with an off-road exhaust, tune, ET Streets, K&N Drop in Air Filter, upper and lower control arms.

Nice vid from Ford on the 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3WODZvJVu8

[Aurora40]

I would like to know how they got past what GM said were the prohibitive production costs? Are the Ford modular family of motors that much less expensive to build? Why? Poor quality control? Cheap machining? Cheap internal parts? Their list of parts looks pretty good...I guess I don't understand.:icon_scra
The Ford motors are not hand assembled, they are mass produced like most others. GM mass-produced the Northstar just fine.

The LT5 specifically was probably expensive to produce, not all DOHC V8's.

Also, certainly the game is changing lately. Even Hyundai produces a DOHC V8 now, making 385hp from 4.6L.

[DaveK]

As far as I can see it - GM wanted to kill the ZR-1/LT5 and came up with a bunch of rationalisations to justify doing that. Few of them really seem to hold up under scrutiny. :dontknow:

[tomtom72]

Actually I just forgot that the LT5 would not fit in the C5-C6 chassis and allow for the frontal area that the aero people were trying to achieve...:o...I think I read that in Mr. McLellan's book. :redface:

Okay so the Modular motors are not hand assembled. I would have to think that by now a lot of the hand work could have been given over to robots even on an LT5, no? Besides what's the big deal the ZO6 motors are hand assembled? On a car as expensive as a corvette you can hide that cost in the price of the car or offer a DOHC as an option. Okay I'm not being realistic, maybe. I know that Ford tested the prototype DOHC's almost as severely as the LT5 was tortured.....almost to death and Ford couldn't break their modular prototypes either.

Kevin, I am too far out of touch with internal motor parts to say anything about the powdered metal con rods & pistons. I'm from the era that if you needed strong internal motor parts you used forged steel parts, unless it was a medium to low performance application. I remember that back in the late 60's & early 70's the 327 FI con rods and then later the LT-1 "Pink" rods were the best you could get on a budget....if you needed more you had to go aftermarket. One thing was all those parts were forged steel, pink rods and aftermarket ones. Back then nobody had Titanium anything inside their motors for the street.

:cheers:
Tom

[LT-5 Music]

Evolution Performance just ran 11.82 in the 1/4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qc4Xb7G1ck&feature=player_embedded

Dyno and track footage.

Motor/exhaust sounds great.