200mph ???

[xxxscimitarxxx]

I suppose this is a tech area question so here goes.......

basically what would it take to hit 200mph (apart from a mountain side and dropping out the back of a plane)

the C4 Zed is tantalisngly close to this number but has anyone done it or can it be done, and what would it take

[Aurora40]

Doing the math, if you assume a 385hp Z can hit 180mph with stock gearing (I used 385 because I'm not 100% positive every factory Z could hit this speed), then that's 6230 rpm, and the drag force would be 325c lbs, where c is a constant I don't feel like figuring out.

To hit 200mph, using the formula Fd = 1/2 p v^2 Cd A, you would need 400c lbs of force. Since this would happen at 6950 rpm with stock gearing, you would need to make 530hp to match the drag force at 200mph.

That's a lot of extra juice for 20mph!

[bdw18_123]

Curtis Ward was supposed to have done 201MPH in a stock 91 ZR-1 with the only mods being lowered by 1-inch and some mods to the front airdam (don't know what they were). I'm not the one who put the text in the picture.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a292/bdw18_123/Stock91ZR-1thathit201MPH.jpg

[IowaZR-1]

2002 BBORR radar results show no car #364 or a owner /driver named Curtis Ward

http://www.bborr.com/2002/2002radar.html

[bdw18_123]

2002 BBORR radar results show no car #364 or a owner /driver named Curtis Ward

http://www.bborr.com/2002/2002radar.html

That's weird, I don't know what's up with that. I got the info from WB9MCW, he knows more about it than I do.

[Kevin]

2002 BBORR radar results show no car #364 or a owner /driver named Curtis Ward

http://www.bborr.com/2002/2002radar.html

i can't remember the year exactly but it was shortly before the car was put into the wall at the BG autocross. that was a hell of a car

[Locobob]

2002 BBORR radar results show no car #364 or a owner /driver named Curtis Ward

http://www.bborr.com/2002/2002radar.html

Perhaps he is not listed because he got disqualified :dontknow:

[Sgreg]

Doing the math, if you assume a 385hp Z can hit 180mph with stock gearing (I used 385 because I'm not 100% positive every factory Z could hit this speed), then that's 6230 rpm, and the drag force would be 325c lbs, where c is a constant I don't feel like figuring out.

To hit 200mph, using the formula Fd = 1/2 p v^2 Cd A, you would need 400c lbs of force. Since this would happen at 6950 rpm with stock gearing, you would need to make 530hp to match the drag force at 200mph.

That's a lot of extra juice for 20mph!

Is that 530 gross or RWHP ? 530 Rear wheel HP would take a stroker for sure.

[IowaZR-1]

this link talks some about "Sledgehammer" and the new ZR1 going after the Veyron record top speed

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/international-automotive-scene/64087-building-corvette-zr1-smoke-veyron.html

[xxxscimitarxxx]

well that answered some thoughts.....

thank you guys

so baiscally with either

some ''seemingly'' simple aerodynamic changes (lowering and front air flow mods.... duct tape + remove wing mirrors + A GOOD WAX) its possible with enough straight track to do it almost stock

and or

520 bhp

guess my next question is how much track would you need (or german autobahn ;) )

you might be guessing by now that lm looking for a personal challenge in my old age....which could also result in not getting any older

(Aurora40.....do you do those kind of calcs for a living)

[WB9MCW]

CURTIS IS THE MAN TO TALK TO ABOUT DOING THIS

HE HAS BEEN THERE AND DONE IT

I remember the post >> So how fast have you taken it?

Here it is >>> http://www.zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=37792&postcount=47

Complete thread >>> http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5569&highlight=fastest+ZR-1

53 posts ~ 6 pages long

[Aurora40]

Is that 530 gross or RWHP ? 530 Rear wheel HP would take a stroker for sure.
Engine horsepower.

[Aurora40]

some ''seemingly'' simple aerodynamic changes (lowering and front air flow mods.... duct tape + remove wing mirrors + A GOOD WAX) its possible with enough straight track to do it almost stock
Using that same formula, if we assumed the stock car has a Cd of about 0.33 (I believe that's about right), then with the same power, you would need to reduce the drag coefficient to under 0.27.

You'd also need to make the same power at ~6,900 rpm as at ~6,200 rpm. A stocker doesn't do that, but with headers or a ported intake you can probably push the power peak further up.

But it seems really reaching to cut the Cd that much.

These are just simple theoretical calcs though, not based on any experience or modeling.

[xxxscimitarxxx]

well it seems like there more too it than duct tape and soiled underwear, and forced road wheel balancing would seem to be a personal insurance must have....but this summer is planned to be my autobahn visit so will just do what l can for anything over the theoretical limit and see what l get on the clock....find the best section of road....wait my time for least traffic....and just do it !!....lm not after breaking any official records here....just my own

thanks for the input guys

[cward]

The reason me and about 15 others are not listed in the results of the 2002 BBORR is because we were disqualified. #364 at the time of the race had about 392 rwhp. It was not completely stock but did have stock long block. Coil-overs helped greatly to lower the car right down on the ground. Very stiff suspension stopped wheel rub on the inside of the fender well in front. It also had some help with a tail wind. In any event, I and my navigator observed 201 on speedo and the radar caught me at 201. My tech speed (legal top speed) was 180 so I way over tech. The year before, 2001, I ran the race with 4.10 gears and about 370 rwhp. Top speed was 180 in 5th and 181 in 6th. Rev limiter was set to 7800. In the 2002 race, used 3.45 gears and was over 7000 @ 200 mph. Ran at 200+ for more than a minute on a 7 mile straight. In 2002 the race was shortened because of weather. I averaged about 168 mph over the 40+ mile shortened course. Could have averaged much more but ran 20+ miles legal in the 155 or 160 class, can't remember which right now. That is Super Sport which requires full roll cage plus other fairly expensive safety features. Roll cage requires cutting on the car. By the way, the picture was taken by me the day of the race and I later added the text. #364 was a very good race car and I believe it had the toughest LT5 ever built. I put it through some very hard times and it kept right on a tickin. It also ran an 11.08 @ 129 at the River City Drag strip and its best short time of 1.59. Great car. I was not driving when it was totaled. I have never wrecked any car when racing.

Curtis

[bdw18_123]

Thanks for that info, Curtis! :thumbsup:

[Locobob]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff47/SuperL98new/TopSpeed.jpg

Borrowed this from CF, it would appear to be highly accurate based on known real world examples:

L98 245chp (210rwhp), 150ish

LT-1 300chp (255rwhp), 165ish

LT-4 330chp (280rwhp), 170ish

ZR-1/Callaway We'll just round em off to 400chp (340rwhp), 180ish

Car and Driver C4 603chp (515rwhp), 212mph

ZR-1 Snakeskinner 440chp (375rwhp), 188mph

ZR-12 Conan 580chp (495rwhp), 211mph

Keep gearing in mind when you look at this, you won't reach your theoretical top speed if gearing doesn't allow max horsepower at a given speed.

[Wide_One]

You miss this one...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/Wide_One/1ca.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/Wide_One/1c.jpg

fine print says it actual did 218 mph with the cats bypassed and (from the full article) 7 cylinders. And not to stir anything but it's intresting his comparsion to the c5.....but he's just an old professional race car driver. And the fact that he drove this off a corner of a big ol oval so a little handling is involved. Love to see the new gen2 zr1 bigger inch (or hp ) motors would do. But it's unlikely anyone has the guts.

[Locobob]

You miss this one...
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/Wide_One/1ca.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/Wide_One/1c.jpg

fine print says it actual did 218 mph with the cats bypassed and (from the full article) 7 cylinders. And not to stir anything but it's intresting his comparsion to the c5.....but he's just an old professional race car driver. And the fact that he drove this off a corner of a big ol oval so a little handling is involved. Love to see the new gen2 zr1 bigger inch (or hp ) motors would do. But it's unlikely anyone has the guts.

Why yes I did miss that one, have that mag somewhere.
LPE 415 at 218mph, looks like that one fits pretty well too. :cheers:

[LGAFF]

That car, Lingenfelter 415, actually hit 225 MPH in a test.

[xxxscimitarxxx]

Im humbled by the knowlege of you guys....:worship:

Theres much more to this than first comes to mind, and as said, for me personally lm just going to aim for an autobahn run with a handful of cheap mods, the best possible conditions, and see what l can get over book. An Autobahn is not the ideal place to find out just how fast the Zed will go but its all we have over here that approches being legal.

I envy you guys your opportunity to participate in the variety of legally endorsed road sports that you have in the US. anyone trying to organise something like the BBORR in europe would only invite the scorn of the ''you cant do that'' brigade.....[-X

''its not safe....you might kill a hedgehog....its environmentally unfreindly''

[cward]

well it seems like there more too it than duct tape and soiled underwear, and forced road wheel balancing would seem to be a personal insurance must have....but this summer is planned to be my autobahn visit so will just do what l can for anything over the theoretical limit and see what l get on the clock....find the best section of road....wait my time for least traffic....and just do it !!....lm not after breaking any official records here....just my own


Since you want to try to go fast, a couple of comments. The most important thing in my mind is tires. Make sure you have very good tires. Most of the wrecks in the ORRs are tire related. At about 170 or so the stock body C4 with stock suspension starts getting very light in the rearend. It generates about 300 lbs of lift @ about 180+ according to Graham B. and that felt about right. In the 2001 race, I was using the stock suspension. In 2002 I had coil-overs. 180 in 2001 was harder driving than the 200 in 2002 mainly because of the much smaller amount of air flowing under the car. With under 400 rwhp it takes awhile to increase speed at 170+. Pick a very long straight. Also, I would suggest increasing the tire pressure in front by a couple of lbs and lower the rear tire pressure by a couple of lbs. to tighten up the the car some.

Just for info, in 1999 BBORR I raced #364 with only about 335 rwhp, stock gears and tires. It would only do 179 on the 7 mile straight. If you look at the results page I think I am not there again because I had a tech speed of 160 and the radar caught me at about 175 or so. Disqualified. My best race was in 2001 when the car would only go 180 or so. I finished 1st in class and 2nd overall. In the 2002 race, if I had not been DQd I would have finished 1st in class and 3rd overall. By the way, Rick Doria was also DQd in the 2002 race driving his stock ZR-1 street car. The reason so many were DQd that year was we were told quietly that we would not be DQd on tech because of the shortened race. We didn't start the race until about 3pm.

Good Luck.


Curtis

PS: Get some life insurance before trying to go fast on a public highway with other cars on the road. My wife had me increase mine $300,000 before 1999 race. :mrgreen:

[xxxscimitarxxx]

Thanks Curtis...coming from you its valued hands on ''been there done that'' info ( and to all others who have added l give equal thanks)

its a personal challenge but needs to be safe as l can make it for sure.....lm on nearly new michelin pilot sport and apart from some simple aero mods, if l can make over book 180 l will be very happy (probably to be alive).....

as for insurance....hmmmmm....lve got an 18 month old daughter so its something to think about

thanks Curtis

thanks all