Another #$%^!@ oil leak!

[tccrab]

$%^&!!!

The weather was unseasonably nice today so I took girlfriend out for a little tire rubber removal.
When I backed her out of the garage, I noticed a 8 or 9 inch diameter oil stain on the floor.

From the position of the puddle on the floor, it's coming from the right front (passenger side) of the motor. Too far forward to be the oil pan, besides couple of months ago I tightened all the oil pan bolts. I'm guessing either the oil pressure sending unit or the oil cooler lines.
Won't know for sure until I get her up on the jack stands.
Bummer.
The good news is that even though she's got a leak, she can still fry the hides with the best of 'em.

There's a little less rubber on the rear tires and a nice pair of extra wide black marks on my favorite street.

TomC
"Crabs"

[ZZZZZR1]

Originally Posted by tccrab

$%^&!!!

The weather was unseasonably nice today so I took girlfriend out for a little quick tire rubber removal.
When I backed her out of the garage, I noticed a 8 or 9 inch diameter oil stain on the floor.

From the position of the puddle on the floor, it's coming from the right front (passenger side) of the motor. Too far forward to be the oil pan, besides couple of months ago I tightened all the oil pan bolts. I'm guessing either the oil pressure sending unit or the oil cooler lines.
Won't know until I get her up on the jack stands.
Bummer.
The good news is that even though she's got a leak, she can still fry the hides with the best of 'em.
There's a little less rubber on the tires and a nice pair of extra wide black marks on my favorite street.

TomC
"Crabs"

Tom,

I had an oil leak and it was just from a mechanic NOT tightening the bolts on the Cam Cover...

I doubt it is that easy for you, but thought I would put it out there.

Cheers

David

[tccrab]

Just in from the garage, girlfriend is up on jack stands and I sure hope I'm wrong about the source of the leak.
It's definitely from the right front of the motor, not the oil pan.
The drips are coming from under the lower control arm area.
The radiator hose is wet as is the top of the mono spring so the oil is coming from somewhere above. There are two oil sensors, one under the oil filter and another in front and to the left of the oil filter. They both appear to be dry, but honestly, it's really hard to tell. There's no room to get a hand in there, especially the one under the oil filter.
There's crud around the oil cooler lines, a smoking gun for sure. I've wiped away the gunk with paper towels and tomorrow after work I'll fire her up and run her until she's warm. Then I'll clean the area again, if there's a leak there it should be obvious.
So, I guess the question of the hour is, what do I do if it's the oil cooler lines? The lines themselves look OK, I didn't seen any cracks in the rubber. Would it do any good if try tightening the fittings at the block? I guess it could be coming from where the metal ends are crimped on the hoses, if that's the case then I guess I'm screwed. I seem to recall that the oil cooler hoses are "Unobtanium" these days.
Ideas? Anybody got any good tips?

TomC
"Crabs"

[tomtom72]

You are proly correct as the factory TSB on the cooler lines was for isssues at the crimp fittings. If you can find Ron, aka cuisenartvette, he had a line on a place to re-manufacture/rebuild those lines local to him in CA.

Although, it could be that luck is with you and it's just that the connections at the block are loose or one of those senders are leaking?

I would think if you could find a Heavy Equipment repair shop they might have a lead as to making up/ or repairing our lines? I was thinking that someday I would try to make up a set of lines in Aero-quip s/s but the connection at the cooler has me stumped, no threads at that end.


tom

[cuisinartvette]

Hi Tom.

Orme Bros racing in Northridge Ca.
Phone: (818) 885-1414.
They can make up about any line you can think up, they have done good work for me.

[tccrab]

Originally Posted by cuisinartvette

Hi Tom.

Orme Bros racing in Northridge Ca.
Phone: (818) 885-1414.
They can make up about any line you can think up, they have done good work for me.

Ron:

Thanks for the lead on plumbing. I may need their services if I can't find what I want locally.

A little research popped up this little gem from Tyler Townsley:

Another little know reality is the worthlessness of the oil cooler system. There is a thermostat like device that prevents any meaningfull oil being circulated through the cooler until the oil gets to over 240+ deg. by then it is really too late to help. So if you are looking to address cooling the oil you have to do something about this 'thermostat' first.

Tyler


After reading this tidbit my solution is clear.
Bye Bye oil cooler and stupid $350 pipes!!

TomC
"Crabs"

[rkreigh]

Originally Posted by tccrab

Ron:

Thanks for the lead on plumbing. I may need their services if I can't find what I want locally.

A little research popped up this little gem from Tyler Townsley:

Another little know reality is the worthlessness of the oil cooler system. There is a thermostat like device that prevents any meaningfull oil being circulated through the cooler until the oil gets to over 240+ deg. by then it is really too late to help. So if you are looking to address cooling the oil you have to do something about this 'thermostat' first.

Tyler


After reading this tidbit my solution is clear.
Bye Bye oil cooler and stupid $350 pipes!!

TomC
"Crabs"

I wouldn't remove the oil cooler. it's there for a reason. 240 is hot but not that hot for oil, especially synthetic. while I agree you don't get above those temps often, on the track or under hard use you sure will, and the cooler will do the job, I don't agree that 240 is "too late" oil needs to be 220 to get the water out of it, and synthetic oil will go up towards 280-300 without death rattle. they don't put the oil cooler on for show, get some hoses!!

[tccrab]

Originally Posted by rkreigh

I wouldn't remove the oil cooler. it's there for a reason. 240 is hot but not that hot for oil, especially synthetic. while I agree you don't get above those temps often, on the track or under hard use you sure will, and the cooler will do the job, I don't agree that 240 is "too late" oil needs to be 220 to get the water out of it, and synthetic oil will go up towards 280-300 without death rattle. they don't put the oil cooler on for show, get some hoses!!

*sigh*
It knew was too good to be true.
Oh well.
Luckily, there is a Massey Ferguson repair shop fairly close by. They said they'd have a look at them and see what they can do.
It doesn't look to be too big a job getting them off. Just drain the oil and unbolt them. Hopefully it won't make too much of a mess.

TomC
"Crabs"

[8upZR1]

If you want to run AN style hoses it really isnt hard. At the oil cooler you can remove the piece that both OEM hoses are attached to. If your hose is trash just cut them off at this connector piece. Then drill & tap the connector for NPT to AN fitting. I think I used 3/8" NPT to -10 AN. 1/2" NPT to -12 AN would have worked but tight. At the filter housing the black steel fittings are 3/4" NPT to -12 AN. Do yourself a favor and replace them with aluminum for weight savings. I ran 3/4" NPT to -10 AN and it was really nice and lots cheaper than dedicated hose from hydraulic supply. It also lets you plumb in an external filter for those who dont like the OEM upside down deal. I never figured that out cause the filter drains everytime you stop the motor only to be refilled on startup. Anyone else find this to be not ideal?

Goodluck with the leak.

[tomtom72]

Actually ya don't have to drain the oil. If ya let Girl Friend sit over night there isn't much oil in the hoses. On mine I just uncoupled both ends and I didn't even need the rags I'd put at both ends. Nothing even came out of the hose, as I think they're pitched toward the cooler. Just don't loose the O-rings at the cooler end as they might be NLA also.

Yea I was watching that thread with Tyler's presentation. Makes me wonder about how effective those aftermarket coolers work, do any of those have T-stats? Actually his presentation made me question the wisdom of our entire coolant/oil cooler system in general. That by-pass chit, and the 240* oil T- stat....If I remember right, Mobil says that the oxidation temp of M1 is somewhere above 375* and it's flash point is like 450*(?). How hot does it get a the bottom end journals?


Tom