'90 wouldn't start - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

bobbyhi · 07-17-2006

Darndest thing just happened. I went out for dinner with the Z and when I came out it wouldn't start. All of the electrical was working just fine and battery was @ 12 volts. When I turned the key there was nothing-nada,zilch. Tried moving the shift lever and clutch petal and still nothing. Put the key in and out a couple of times and still nothing. Was going to call for a flat bed after about 10 minutes of trying. Figured I would try one more time and it started right up. I haven't had any problems since buying it couple of years ago. Any insight as to why it didn't start??? No codes have shown up......

Ccmano · 07-17-2006

Apparent your's is a common problem...this link should cover it...

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_tr...ting.htm#Start

RICHARD TILL · 07-17-2006

same exact thing happened to me the second time i drove my 90-Z. i was on a date that i really wanted to make an impression. she helped me push the car off. it got so bad that i`d only park on a hill because i found that it would start by letting the clutch out on a roll. a new starter fixed my problem. leaves had stopped up the drain hole.

tccrab · 07-18-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyhi

Darndest thing just happened. I went out for dinner with the Z and when I came out it wouldn't start. All of the electrical was working just fine and battery was @ 12 volts. When I turned the key there was nothing-nada,zilch. Tried moving the shift lever and clutch petal and still nothing. Put the key in and out a couple of times and still nothing. Was going to call for a flat bed after about 10 minutes of trying. Figured I would try one more time and it started right up. I haven't had any problems since buying it couple of years ago. Any insight as to why it didn't start??? No codes have shown up......

Ahhhaaa....
The Dreaded No Start.
My favorite topic.

After a short drive, park the car, come back a little later,
Put the key in and..... (drum roll please)............................
Nothing.
Everything else works.
Lights, vacuum pump, radio, interior lights.
Yup, all work fine.
It's not the VATS (you check that first, 'cause it's a known failure)
But not even a "click" from the starter solenoid.
Nada.
Zilch.
Oh, the stress.
Oh, the agony.
Oh, the anger........
You try different keys (that VATS thing again)...

Nada.
Nope.
Only to have the F

ing thing start after 10 or 15 minutes.
In some cases, the car is towed to the local shop where the mechanic gets in and fires it right up.

In other cases, just as the tow truck shows up, the driver tries one more time and it fires right up, but you've still gotta pay the towing fee, even though he never hooks up...

The next day everything checks out fine.
Relays, fuses, clutch safety switch, wiring, everything fine.
Starts right up.
Smirks at you, dares you to trust it.
Double Dog dares you.
Go ahead, get in, it says seductively.
Take me for a drive, big boy.
You know you want to...
It had to be something that you did, couldn't be the car, right?
Just don't turn it off until the car is back in it's garage.
Riiighhhhtttt...

Too much resistance in the starter wiring. Solenoid won't even budge if it's not getting just the right amount of current. GM realized they had a problem and changed the wiring in the '93 model year.
My answer is to bypass all the crap and fire the solenoid directly off of the battery. See the following link:
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1849

Drop me a note if you need more details, info, instructions, etc.

Good luck!

TomC
'90ZR1 #792

bobbyhi · 07-18-2006

Tom - thanks for your help. I went back and read your post in the forum about what you did with a direct relay to the solenoid. I am going to try the same application you used. Where did you go thru the firewall? I haven't looked for a spot yet but if you've been there and done that I could probably same some time. Sure hope you're around when I do this project. Don't think I've got the moxy for any major unforseen electric problems.............

tccrab · 07-18-2006

There's not a lot of room under the drivers side to access the wiring so I went the easy route by accessing the start signal from the passenger side.
There's a secondary fuse panel under the hush panel on the passenger side, and it's got a fuse labeled "CRANK". This is the 12V from the start signal on the ignition switch. It's a yellow #12 wire. I spliced in there and routed my wire through the door wiring grommet to the side panel. From there it is routed up along the top of the firewall, zip tied to the windshield washer tubing. I used black wire and black zip ties so that it is very difficult to see.
I positioned the relay just under the ECM and accessed the purple wire inside the wiring loom. I cut and capped the purple wire from the dash side, and spliced in a wire from the relay to the starter side of the purple wire.
I spliced into the accessory wires on the battery cables for the 12V and ground.
Everything is hidden out of sight and can only be seen if you know what you are looking for.

The starter will crank when the key is in the "Start" position.
Every time.
Even if you forget to push in the clutch.

Even if the VATS is triggered, although if it's triggered there won't be any spark or fuel so it doesn't really defeat the VAT's purpose and intent. Even though it'll crank, it won't start.

I did catch some crap from other forum members about the clutch safety switch, but you've got to be really stupid to turn the key withouth having it in neutral or the clutch in. *sheesh*

I've since learned that replacing the starter & solenoid has fixed some people's "No Start" issues, but in my case since my Z only has 10,800 miles, I have a hard time believing that the starter is bad.
I bought my car from a collector buddy of mine. It's first 15 years were spent in a climate controlled warehouse lovingly cared for by a Chevy master tech. It has never seen the rain, nor has anybody EVER hosed the engine down.
Bad starter? Bah.
Bad wiring from GM?
Much more likely!

TomC
'90ZR1 #792

bobbyhi · 07-20-2006

I've decided to replace the battery first. I don't think that it is putting out enough volts ( 10.4v). The nearest I can tell, the battery is over 4 years old and getting weak. I remember a discussion regarding which battery to use in the Z's on the forum a few months back. If I remember it was pretty much a "cat from every county".

The bad thing is now everytime I use the Z it will be in the back of mind "is this thing going to start after I've stopped?". If the "no start" happens again I will use Tom's method with a relay.

How do I find the old forum regarding the batteries????

guinnessdood · 07-29-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyhi

I've decided to replace the battery first. I don't think that it is putting out enough volts ( 10.4v). The nearest I can tell, the battery is over 4 years old and getting weak. I remember a discussion regarding which battery to use in the Z's on the forum a few months back. If I remember it was pretty much a "cat from every county".

The bad thing is now everytime I use the Z it will be in the back of mind "is this thing going to start after I've stopped?". If the "no start" happens again I will use Tom's method with a relay.

How do I find the old forum regarding the batteries????

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/...hlight=battery

If you have 10.4 it definitely WILL NOT start. It won't even try. A new battery probably solved your problem...in the future if you have the no start but your voltage is OK...you may want to do the mod.

bobbyhi · 07-30-2006

Uly,

I did put in a new battery and so far no problems. I hope that was the cure. Thanks for the reply............

Kevin · 07-30-2006

did you bypass the clutch switch?

07-17-2006	#2
Ccmano Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sparks, NV Posts: 2,852	Re: '90 wouldn't start Apparent your's is a common problem...this link should cover it... http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_tr...ting.htm#Start __________________ 90'ZR-1 #1461 Red/Black Ported Intake, Degreed Cams, OBX Headers & Exhaust, Fidanza FW, Secondary Delete, Custom tune, C6 GS Wheels. Sold 08 C6 Z51 Crystal Red Metallic Sold Vararam Intake, Tune, Sold 05 C6 Z51 Red/Black Sold 90'ZR-1 #1723 Black/Gray Sold but not forgotten 91' Z51 L98 White Vert. My First, you always remember your first. Sold.

07-17-2006	#3
RICHARD TILL Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Iuka, Mississippi 38852 Posts: 756	Re: '90 wouldn't start same exact thing happened to me the second time i drove my 90-Z. i was on a date that i really wanted to make an impression. she helped me push the car off. it got so bad that i`d only park on a hill because i found that it would start by letting the clutch out on a roll. a new starter fixed my problem. leaves had stopped up the drain hole.

07-18-2006	#5
bobbyhi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mendota Heights, MN. 55120 Posts: 984	Re: '90 wouldn't start Tom - thanks for your help. I went back and read your post in the forum about what you did with a direct relay to the solenoid. I am going to try the same application you used. Where did you go thru the firewall? I haven't looked for a spot yet but if you've been there and done that I could probably same some time. Sure hope you're around when I do this project. Don't think I've got the moxy for any major unforseen electric problems............. __________________ Bob Anderson 1990 #2405 White/Gray Haibeck chip,4:09 gears,Power Effects Exhaust,5 spoke chrome,C5 brakes,49th Street rockers,K&N,Hurst,Headers,Upper & lower ported Minnesota State Director Founding Member #19

07-18-2006	#6
tccrab Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Folsom CA Posts: 1,654	Re: '90 wouldn't start There's not a lot of room under the drivers side to access the wiring so I went the easy route by accessing the start signal from the passenger side. There's a secondary fuse panel under the hush panel on the passenger side, and it's got a fuse labeled "CRANK". This is the 12V from the start signal on the ignition switch. It's a yellow #12 wire. I spliced in there and routed my wire through the door wiring grommet to the side panel. From there it is routed up along the top of the firewall, zip tied to the windshield washer tubing. I used black wire and black zip ties so that it is very difficult to see. I positioned the relay just under the ECM and accessed the purple wire inside the wiring loom. I cut and capped the purple wire from the dash side, and spliced in a wire from the relay to the starter side of the purple wire. I spliced into the accessory wires on the battery cables for the 12V and ground. Everything is hidden out of sight and can only be seen if you know what you are looking for. The starter will crank when the key is in the "Start" position. Every time. Even if you forget to push in the clutch. Even if the VATS is triggered, although if it's triggered there won't be any spark or fuel so it doesn't really defeat the VAT's purpose and intent. Even though it'll crank, it won't start. I did catch some crap from other forum members about the clutch safety switch, but you've got to be really stupid to turn the key withouth having it in neutral or the clutch in. sheesh I've since learned that replacing the starter & solenoid has fixed some people's "No Start" issues, but in my case since my Z only has 10,800 miles, I have a hard time believing that the starter is bad. I bought my car from a collector buddy of mine. It's first 15 years were spent in a climate controlled warehouse lovingly cared for by a Chevy master tech. It has never seen the rain, nor has anybody EVER hosed the engine down. Bad starter? Bah. Bad wiring from GM? Much more likely! TomC '90ZR1 #792 __________________ TomC '90ZR1 #792 Honorary Pirate [B]If it ain't FUN, you're doing something terribly WRONG. [/B]

07-30-2006	#9
bobbyhi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mendota Heights, MN. 55120 Posts: 984	Re: '90 wouldn't start Uly, I did put in a new battery and so far no problems. I hope that was the cure. Thanks for the reply............ __________________ Bob Anderson 1990 #2405 White/Gray Haibeck chip,4:09 gears,Power Effects Exhaust,5 spoke chrome,C5 brakes,49th Street rockers,K&N,Hurst,Headers,Upper & lower ported Minnesota State Director Founding Member #19

07-17-2006	#1
bobbyhi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mendota Heights, MN. 55120 Posts: 984	'90 wouldn't start Darndest thing just happened. I went out for dinner with the Z and when I came out it wouldn't start. All of the electrical was working just fine and battery was @ 12 volts. When I turned the key there was nothing-nada,zilch. Tried moving the shift lever and clutch petal and still nothing. Put the key in and out a couple of times and still nothing. Was going to call for a flat bed after about 10 minutes of trying. Figured I would try one more time and it started right up. I haven't had any problems since buying it couple of years ago. Any insight as to why it didn't start??? No codes have shown up...... __________________ Bob Anderson 1990 #2405 White/Gray Haibeck chip,4:09 gears,Power Effects Exhaust,5 spoke chrome,C5 brakes,49th Street rockers,K&N,Hurst,Headers,Upper & lower ported Minnesota State Director Founding Member #19

07-20-2006	#7
bobbyhi Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mendota Heights, MN. 55120 Posts: 984	Re: '90 wouldn't start I've decided to replace the battery first. I don't think that it is putting out enough volts ( 10.4v). The nearest I can tell, the battery is over 4 years old and getting weak. I remember a discussion regarding which battery to use in the Z's on the forum a few months back. If I remember it was pretty much a "cat from every county". The bad thing is now everytime I use the Z it will be in the back of mind "is this thing going to start after I've stopped?". If the "no start" happens again I will use Tom's method with a relay. How do I find the old forum regarding the batteries???? __________________ Bob Anderson 1990 #2405 White/Gray Haibeck chip,4:09 gears,Power Effects Exhaust,5 spoke chrome,C5 brakes,49th Street rockers,K&N,Hurst,Headers,Upper & lower ported Minnesota State Director Founding Member #19

07-30-2006	#10
Kevin Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 4,632	Re: '90 wouldn't start did you bypass the clutch switch? __________________ It's not the car, it's the people - Doug Johnson 90 r/r "KEYS ON" nick named "T.L.B"