Baer brakes = INCREDIBLE stopping power! - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

Aurora40 · 09-17-2008

In fact, they work so well, I can't move the car out of the garage! Woohoo!

I got their 6-piston kit that uses the stock rotors and C5 pads. As they aren't a floating caliper, you have to shim them to get them centered. I have a fairly cheap caliper (the measuring device) but figured it would work ok, or at least get it close. However, I could have had the best one in the world, it wouldn't matter.

The directions say to tighten it all up slightly, but not hard because you'll have to take it apart. So I shim it up 'til the gauge says they are centered. But when you finally torque it down, the shims compress a lot more than they had been. It's off by a visually obvious amount now. The short side still has enough room for the pad to withdraw, but not much more than that.

Really it's irrelevant though, as I put on every shim they included. So there's not much else I can do anyway. That's 1/8" of shim. Considering the bracket is specifically for the C4, I'm a little surprised it needs that much (and more).

For some reason once the brake line is hooked up, the pistons want to just slowly extend. So once I got the caliper on once, I couldn't get it off again. I had to loosen the banjo bolt which, considering the copper washers are a one-time-use thing, is probably a bad idea. Then I pressed the pistons back by hand.

Now it's all on the car, and I thought I could at least take it around the neighborhood to make sure the pedal felt firm, the brakes worked, etc. But I can't move the car out of the garage. They are either clamping too hard, or it's because the pad surface is larger and so it's on a rotor area that isn't polished/smooth.

To be fair, it perhaps would go smoother if I had new rotors as there wouldn't be any rough/rusty areas on it. I imagine it would make the spacing measurements more accurate too, since the rotor surface on the edge may not be even all the way around anymore.

Sometimes I wonder if God made me interested in cars as some kind of a practical joke...

Aurora40 · 09-18-2008

FYI, here's it installed:

I'm talking with Baer, it's possible maybe the bracket is wrong? They said you shouldn't need more than about one shim. With no shims though, it didn't even clear the rotor without pads.

I guess really I blame myself. I seem to be too dumb to ever learn. Most everything I bought for my '87 'vette did little to nothing to make it faster, better, etc. Mostly it was stuff that both installed and performed poorly. I should just leave this thing alone.

I pretty much know, these will do nothing to improve a single stop. I can lock the brakes with the stock stuff, so you can't do any better than that. In fact these will probably make the front bias worse and lengthen a panic stop. The only possible gain is some pedal "feel" but really who cares as long as pushing the pedal stops the car? But $1000 for 6-piston brakes, how can you pass that up? Apparently I can't...

karterdon · 09-18-2008

where did you find the rudsty brake rotors??? I would highly reccomend that you replace them - Even if you use stock. Other wise you might have the worst case of brake squeel you can imagine. The rust will burn into the rotor.

Good luck

902066 · 09-18-2008

$1000.00 for that set up WAS to good to pass up. I have faith you will get it worked out. Dont be so hard on yourself.

HIZNHRZ · 09-19-2008

For what it's worth, you are being way too hard on yourself. The brakes look like they were a good buy for a grand. You've got a beautiful, well cared for Z with all the right mods. You've also got the patience and knowhow to do most of the work yourself.

You've done what I would do and that's call Bear and talk to someone. Once you get to the right person you'll certainly drive to a solution. You're a great asset to the ZR1 botherhood and especially the MD/VA area. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

By the way, your title is great considering the circumstances. You also know how to laugh at yourself sometimes!

Scott

Aurora40 · 09-19-2008

Yeah, it's just frustrating. Nothing is ever easy. Seems like it should have been a lot simpler. And of course now I can't drive my car. I will probably put the stock brakes back on this weekend.

Karterdon, that is what rotors look like when they get wet. I washed the wheels prior to messing with it, and the rotors will get surface rust until you drive it a bit and the pads scuff it off. While new rotors would look better, after a few months they'll look just like the ones that are on there.

GOLDCYLON · 09-19-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora40

Yeah, it's just frustrating. Nothing is ever easy. Seems like it should have been a lot simpler. And of course now I can't drive my car. I will probably put the stock brakes back on this weekend.

Karterdon, that is what rotors look like when they get wet. I washed the wheels prior to messing with it, and the rotors will get surface rust until you drive it a bit and the pads scuff it off. While new rotors would look better, after a few months they'll look just like the ones that are on there.

Bob the rust on the rotors have nothing to do with the problem you are experiencing. The big problem is that its a big hunking caliper and its gotta be finesed and shimed correctly. I cant beleive the caliper is not made to float!!! As to a rotor replacement I suggest the Baer Eradispeeds that are Zinc washed with Pced Aluminum Hats and stainless hardware. Now back to the fitment issue. Id talk to Jeffvette to see if he has any ideas. I cant believe nobody has "really" chimed in to help with hey Ive been there and I did this. If I had these I would be able to give you some pointers but curently I would be in the same boat as you im only running GS calipers. A lot of folks out there with some interesting combinations Brembo, Baers, Wildwood, Moveit and C5 setups come on folks give Bob a hand. Keep at it!! Can it be the brackets are angled incorrectly? Post some photos of WTF is going on maybe that might get the crew here to attempt to figure out waht is going on. Daryll

09-19-2008

Bob, send or post high quality pictures of how it is mounted, then remove the caliper and send pictures of the adapter bracket (if there is one). Also, when you have the wheel removed and doing pictures, make sure you have two lug nuts tightened down to hold the rotor in the proper position.

Aurora40 · 09-19-2008

There are no lugs on because I was just shooting pictures. However, the rotor is frozen to the hub so it's unnecessary. When there were no pads and I was measuring, I spun the hub/rotor just to ensure the clearances remained the same.

Here's some pictures:

Don't spend a lot of time though. I'll wait to see what Baer says. Mostly I just wanted to vent my frustration...

09-19-2008

Based upon this image, you need no shims, or at least less shims. The rotor is cocked to the outboard side.

09-17-2008	#1
Aurora40 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 2,713	Baer brakes = INCREDIBLE stopping power! In fact, they work so well, I can't move the car out of the garage! Woohoo! I got their 6-piston kit that uses the stock rotors and C5 pads. As they aren't a floating caliper, you have to shim them to get them centered. I have a fairly cheap caliper (the measuring device) but figured it would work ok, or at least get it close. However, I could have had the best one in the world, it wouldn't matter. The directions say to tighten it all up slightly, but not hard because you'll have to take it apart. So I shim it up 'til the gauge says they are centered. But when you finally torque it down, the shims compress a lot more than they had been. It's off by a visually obvious amount now. The short side still has enough room for the pad to withdraw, but not much more than that. Really it's irrelevant though, as I put on every shim they included. So there's not much else I can do anyway. That's 1/8" of shim. Considering the bracket is specifically for the C4, I'm a little surprised it needs that much (and more). For some reason once the brake line is hooked up, the pistons want to just slowly extend. So once I got the caliper on once, I couldn't get it off again. I had to loosen the banjo bolt which, considering the copper washers are a one-time-use thing, is probably a bad idea. Then I pressed the pistons back by hand. Now it's all on the car, and I thought I could at least take it around the neighborhood to make sure the pedal felt firm, the brakes worked, etc. But I can't move the car out of the garage. They are either clamping too hard, or it's because the pad surface is larger and so it's on a rotor area that isn't polished/smooth. To be fair, it perhaps would go smoother if I had new rotors as there wouldn't be any rough/rusty areas on it. I imagine it would make the spacing measurements more accurate too, since the rotor surface on the edge may not be even all the way around anymore. Sometimes I wonder if God made me interested in cars as some kind of a practical joke... __________________ Bob Saveland Former owner of #2517 [IMG]http://a.random-image.net/aurora40/vette.jpg[/img]

09-18-2008	#2
Aurora40 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 2,713	Re: Baer brakes = INCREDIBLE stopping power! FYI, here's it installed: I'm talking with Baer, it's possible maybe the bracket is wrong? They said you shouldn't need more than about one shim. With no shims though, it didn't even clear the rotor without pads. I guess really I blame myself. I seem to be too dumb to ever learn. Most everything I bought for my '87 'vette did little to nothing to make it faster, better, etc. Mostly it was stuff that both installed and performed poorly. I should just leave this thing alone. I pretty much know, these will do nothing to improve a single stop. I can lock the brakes with the stock stuff, so you can't do any better than that. In fact these will probably make the front bias worse and lengthen a panic stop. The only possible gain is some pedal "feel" but really who cares as long as pushing the pedal stops the car? But $1000 for 6-piston brakes, how can you pass that up? Apparently I can't... __________________ Bob Saveland Former owner of #2517 [IMG]http://a.random-image.net/aurora40/vette.jpg[/img]

09-18-2008	#3
karterdon Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Antioch, Illinois Posts: 129	Re: Baer brakes = INCREDIBLE stopping power! where did you find the rudsty brake rotors??? I would highly reccomend that you replace them - Even if you use stock. Other wise you might have the worst case of brake squeel you can imagine. The rust will burn into the rotor. Good luck

09-18-2008	#4
902066 Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 190	Re: Baer brakes = INCREDIBLE stopping power! $1000.00 for that set up WAS to good to pass up. I have faith you will get it worked out. Dont be so hard on yourself.

09-19-2008	#5
HIZNHRZ Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 738	Re: Baer brakes = INCREDIBLE stopping power! For what it's worth, you are being way too hard on yourself. The brakes look like they were a good buy for a grand. You've got a beautiful, well cared for Z with all the right mods. You've also got the patience and knowhow to do most of the work yourself. You've done what I would do and that's call Bear and talk to someone. Once you get to the right person you'll certainly drive to a solution. You're a great asset to the ZR1 botherhood and especially the MD/VA area. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know. By the way, your title is great considering the circumstances. You also know how to laugh at yourself sometimes! Scott

09-19-2008	#8
Jeffvette Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Baer brakes = INCREDIBLE stopping power! Bob, send or post high quality pictures of how it is mounted, then remove the caliper and send pictures of the adapter bracket (if there is one). Also, when you have the wheel removed and doing pictures, make sure you have two lug nuts tightened down to hold the rotor in the proper position.