Insurance help/strategy needed please.... got tagged

[billschroeder5842]

Yesterday was the day that we all dread; I was in an accident. Everyone was fine, the 16 year old got the ticket and I got the heart ache. I was obviously pissed, but that quickly tempered as my "dad" took over as she sat in her new (less than 1000 mile Honda) shaking and crying.

Long story short she "jumped through" three lanes of traffic from the middle turn lane in rush our traffic. I was in the middle of the three and the guy on the left of me locked up his brakes, I glanced over and there she was. I tee boned her as she was passing left to right direct in front of me. I mention this as I believe I have some frame damage (the steering is at 10:30) and the hood and front facia show signs of being "mushed sideways". She got an un-safe lane change violation.

This especially hurst as I got the car back (see other posts) last month from Steve Schroder at Cross Flags for some engine work and dyno. The car was REALLY running well.

I'd like some help with how to work with insurance companies with cars as special as ours. If this was my daughters car, I'd know what to do , but our cars are unique. I took it to my "go to" everyday body man. He said that the car faired better than he thought but the frame is slightly pushed-- but the car is 100% fixable barring time, parts, money. However the insurance company will most likely total the car based on age, value etc. He said that everything front of the radiator shroud would need repairing or fixing. Remarkably the shroud shows no signs of damage and the car ran home just fine.

He said to take it to a shop that specialises in Corvettes prior to the insurance company call for advise and to synch stories. I have an appointment Friday afternoon.

So, I have a few questions:
1) How does insurance companies estable the value of our classic cars?
2) How does and insurance company take into account the recent (I have all receipts) work done on upgrades?
3) What determines criteria for "condition?" This car has 80k but looks every bit of 20k. It is (was anyway) in remarkable condition as I got it from the original owner.
4) If "totalled" how does the "buy back" process work and how is a price established?
5) If totalled and bought, can I avoid a salvage title- I own the car free and clear?


Anything else? Any advise is appreciated.

(If totalled I'd like to somehow either keep to repair and/or make sure that it goes to someone in the club for donor and or parts car. It really is in great condition and I want to keep it in the family)

[dredgeguy]

Bill, sorry to hear the news. One of our Wazoo guys had a State Farm regular policy and made out well when his car caught on fire. Not only did he come out far better than he thought (mid-high 20's) but he gave them copies of receipts for recent mods done. State Farm gave him I believe 80% credit for the parts and came up with a value for labor (Wazoo did the labor - cost was pizza). Then they included his tax, registration etc. Ended up with a total of low $30's and more than happy.
I also have State Farm but have their collector car insurance with agreed upon value. They just started this type of policy last year.
Others are more knowledgeable about this and keep us posted. Which insurance company are you with?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Bill,
You can be sure we all feel badly for you.
Some comments:
1- that really does not look too bad.
2- looking at her car, you hit mostly sheet metal
3- totaled? depends.


If you have regular everyday insurance that values the car as a 1991 Corvette, and the premiums paid were based on that, the repair cost could exceed the paltry amount such policies might pay.


If you have a Collector's Policy, then if the car is actually unfixable, which I doubt, then they would pay the amount that was "agreed upon" when you started the policy.
If it was a "stated value" policy, perhaps less, but way more than regular coverage.


Please, all who read this, make certain that you have an "agreed upon value" collector policy, such as that offered by NCM Insurance, and that the value is representative of what the car is actually worth.


If you do not, then you are simply taking an unnecessary risk.


Bill, nearly all of the parts that were damaged are run of the mill C-4 parts.
These cars do not have frames per se, and because of that, minor "pushes" can easily be "pulled" back by a competent collision repair facility.


I suspect that you will be fine, and am very happy no one was injured, and that you behaved like a "dad" to the poor cherub that simply made a very foolish mistake.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Marty

[fred]

Here it is cold and hard...
Pretty simple fix. Have a frame shop check it out, it'll may need a pull to align the horns. Maybe not, the front bumper assembly is mounted with four bolts, and it may have taken all the damage. It looks like you are going to need a front bumper cover, inside bumper support, possibly a front piece that welds on to the front "horns" and mounts the inside bumper support. Possibly one or both hinges. possibly some inner panels and brackets. The hood looks fixable. If it gets "totaled", salvage title almost no exceptions, and as far as a buy back, that's up to the insurance company....some do, some don't. If you want to keep the car insist on getting it fixed and don't mention totaling. If you want out, it should be fairly easy to get it totaled....most companies don't want the headaches of dealing with classic cars (or their owners). New replacement parts are almost impossible to obtain....although it is used parts that were damaged (think about it) If you can document all your recent improvements you will probably get reimbursed. In todays market, and 80k miles, a salvage title would drop the value of your car about 40%. Damage history vs no damage history maybe 10% at that mileage. Sorry for your loss, I know you put a lot of yourself into that car.

[rush91]

The main thing is you got to hug your daughter afterwards, and no one was hurt in rush hour traffic......

Can't remember off the top of my head who I have ( Prudential I think) but I remember they wouldn't touch insuring the car without their appraiser coming out and doing his thing. Once he appraised it as a ZR-1, they insured me. But it had to be fully insured, maybe due to the age. But at time of my purchase the car was 23 years old. Not collector age yet.....

If you have a good agent / insurance they will work with you. It can be a headache to deal with, just make sure they know it is NOT the base C4 model. The damage looks cosmetic to the eye...... new hood, front clip, etc. Hopefully she is not too bad under the skin, too where it would have to be totaled. Fingers crossed your ordeal will go smoothly!

[WARP TEN]

Bill, if you have a good agent, you certainly should talk with him about your options, but I would suggest that you not file a claim with your insurance company unless you have an agreed value policy, and even then I am not so sure. Rather, I would suggest that you first get a couple of estimates for the repairs and then talk with the teenager's parents. If you eventually need a lawyer, fine. But I would think a discussion with the parents of the teen would probably result in them paying for the repairs (or at least a fair portion of them) rather than filing a claim with their insurance company for their daughter. Certainly worth a try and maybe a discussion with an attorney ahead of time as to how best to approach the situation. I think if there is any possibility of getting the car totaled by the insurance company you would want to avoid that as it is sure to result in a salvage title if you manage to keep the car. Always best to first try to work something out with the at fault party. Just my $.02.--Bob

[EvanZR1]

Bill, get with Mid Cities Classics, Jim Welch is the owner. Highly recommended by some fellow Corvette owners. Quote was "It's not cheap, he does full restorations and a lot of Corvette Work. He is easily one of the best in DFW."

Other great advice for everyone is get agreed value coverage. I have $45K on my 91, which would cover everything I've done to it (and is more than I could probably sell it for). Makes it a lot easier not having to worry about what would happen if something like this happened to it.

[32valvZ]

Man, so sorry this happened to you. Glad you or anyone else wasn't injured for sure... I also did an agreed value on my 90 of $25k Seemed the safe bet to me. I wish you all the best with the situation and repairs...

[billschroeder5842]

Originally Posted by EvanZR1

Bill, get with Mid Cities Classics, Jim Welch is the owner. Highly recommended by some fellow Corvette owners. Quote was "It's not cheap, he does full restorations and a lot of Corvette Work. He is easily one of the best in DFW."

Evan- you and I are on the same track. I was trading Emails with Jim last night and spoke with him this morning. Jim has done work on both my ZR1 and Z06 and I have neveer had an issue with him. I am taking my car in Friday afternoon and putting it up on his rack. Jim kept it pretty simple after looking at the photos; he said that if the underneath and structures look good let's fix it, if not, lets get the highest value.

I did call my agent, (AllState) and he recommended using the other insurance company (Progressive) as the girl was at fault and ticketed so I was more likely to get a better deal. He did not know how the insurance companies arrived at the value of the classic cars but said that guides like Haggarty/KBB are known quantities and he wants to do some research.

Good idea to reach out ot the parents, however there will be a language barrier to overcome as I overhear them speaking after I asked her to call her dad. Poor kid was just a hot, hot mess.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'd like to keep the car if able to do a proper repair. If not I'll be back in the market looking for another unicorn ZR1!

[onethumb]

I've dealt with this before (unfortunately, but on a different and much rarer car), so here's my $0.02:

Agree with others, it really doesn't look that bad. Body shops vary widely in competence, so go with someone recommended (looks like you have that part already).

Your best bet for now will be to go after her insurance. Since she is at fault, they will be the ones to pay (unless TX is a no-fault state, but I don't believe it is).

Be prepared to fight with them on the appraisal of the car's value. Don't back down on where the car will be taken for repair, either--they will try to get you to use one of their "approved" body shops, which means they do cheap, crappy work.

Get an independent estimate from where you would want to have it fixed. Her insurance may try to low-ball you on the repair payments, but you have the right to take the car where you want it to be repaired.

Insurance adjusters are under pressure to get their claims settled quickly. Most people are in a hurry because they have lost their daily driver, so they also settle quickly. If you show that you are patient and willing to fight it out, you'll get a much better result.

There is a lot of variance in laws state-to-state, but most have in common that the insurer must work with you "in good faith", and you must also be "made whole" financially. Use these terms liberally when you speak with them, if you have to. It wouldn't hurt to read up on TX insurance law.

If they still balk at the dollar amount to fix (and the repair cost is within the recorded sale price of recent ZR-1's), provide supporting documentation. If they still balk, then tell them you will be getting an independent appraisal of the car. You'd be surprised how effective this is, since the independent appraisal generally precedes a lawsuit. This is not something they want to spend money on, so you will generally get them to back down at that point.

Having said all that, they'll never pay $50k in repairs for a $25k car. Your best outcome if the repair costs are that high will be to get a similar amount of money that it would take to buy exactly what you had. But again, this doesn't look like a >$20k repair---I'd guess more in the $15k range.