BJ AUCTION ON SPEED

[cuisinartvette]

Thoguht he worked for Callaway, maybe thats where the bias is?

Doesnt matter really just find it interesting.

[ZR1Vette]

Ahh... good back ground info and as I learn more this is good and I understand more. I guess I just do not understand just not having respect and recognition for the family Vette. What I find interesting is that our local Vette club does a lot of joint events with the local Mustang club and there is a lot more just simple respect for each (considering that tradition of the Mustang to Vette animosity for our cars) other. It is like we Vette drivers are like alligators...we feed on our own off-spring. Just IMHO
Michael

Originally Posted by Jeffvette

Michael, I think a lot of the Callaway guys were still bitter about not getting their own section at CF. They tried to merge them in with us after the ZR-1 section was created. People got upset on both sides. SO they went to the CAC and created their own group.

Also the C5 Z06 guys got their panties in a wad over them not having a specific section and the ZR-1 guys did. It was deemed that our cars were more different than a regular C4 and they weren't. Eventually they gave in and got their own section.

[Z51JEFF]

Originally Posted by xlr8nflorida

They are totally different cars, I chose a ZR-1 because that is what I wanted.

That says it all right there,I didnt buy a Callaway,new Corvette or an old Corvette,I bought the one I wanted.By the way I guess Im the one that started all the bull$hit over there,the guy says something stupid about the car and it struck a nerve.Simple fact is if somebody pays $60,000 for a Callaway thats O.K. but if somebody pays that kind of money for a ZR-1 there stupid?Ive always liked Callaways and they do have a place in Corvette history but if this guy represents the average Callaway owner,I can do without them.But anybody thinks that any C4 other than a ZR-1 is the pinnacle C4,sorry,they just dont get it.

[cuisinartvette]

Typical Vette dxxxswinging, never understand that.

I like the way the cars look and drive, what gen or what options, market value or production #s are absolutely MEANINGLESS when youre banging gears. Some are owners others are drivers.

[bb62]

[quote=xlr8nflorida;52403]I would ask you to keep a few things in mind. Everybody likes low mileage garage queens that look like new. But if you have a 67 big block restored that has 150,000 miles on it, do you think anybody really cares? No, they love the car and pay big bucks for it.

There will be a day, when ZR-1s will bring good $ regardless of their mileage. ......[/quote]

Jim,

I'll have to disagree with you on this. Big blocks from 67 definitely have a hierarchy with respect to price and "mileage" is definitely a part of that calculation. Trust me on this one given that I've owned C2s for nearly 30 years and have had a 67 435 for over 13 years.

One advantage that ZR-1s have that 67 big blocks don't have is confirming a car as big block. That's a problem with big blocks. You can determine whether a car is a fake, but you have to be real good.

Factors that affect 67 big block values are:

1. Which big block? 390HP, 400HP, 435HP, 435HP L89, L88. 435s can be 50-100% higher than similar 390 cars. 400HP with Air cars are also getting serious attention, but 435s are the highest for generally obtainable cars. L89s and L88s are so rare (16 and 20 produced respectively) that they can draw 300 to 600% of a 435.

2. Color - surprisingly the colors that are the most valuable are the exact opposite of what people today perceive for ZR-1s. Red and black are the most valuable - especially with red interiors. So if ZR-1s follow 435s, be prepared for red and black to lead the value equation in the long term. Silver is next, the three blues are mid value, maroon, white, and yellow are next with green as the least valuable.

3. Originality are another factor. The most valuable of all 435s are "benchmark" type cars. This means unrestored with low mileage in good enough condition to garner an NCRS top flight award (at least at the regional level) or Bloomington gold. Note that there are at best 15-20 benchmark quality 435 cars left. Newly restored cars are next on the list in terms of value, then older restorations, and finally drivers with little originality and then the modified cars (many of which can prove to be 435 cars - but it's very expensive to restore these cars).

4. Documentation, if it’s the right type, can often add 30% to the value of a car.

5. Mileage to some of the top collectors IS a factor. When I bought my car, I was informed of the car by a major collector whom I know fairly well. He was looking for a super low mileage 435. He already owned 2 67 L88s and was looking to branch out! He originally wanted to purchase mine (which at the time had 28K) on it, but found a green 435 coupe with 8900 miles instead - so he bought that one. He told me that mine was the second best original 435 he'd seen - ha. ha. Anyway I got lucky because I was looking for a silver car - and he was aware of it - so it turned out to be a great tip

This was back in 93 - but as you can imagine, I still stay very close to that world as well. 67 Corvettes are a world on their own. I know a number of collectors who focus solely on 67s and the rest of them don't matter. I think that's why 67s generally demand so much more than any other Sting Ray.

As for ZR-1s, from what I've garnered watching over the past few years (you didn't think I bought a ZR-1 on impulse, did you?) is that a combination of rarity and perceived performance will be the driving factors. Here's my view of where the long term value is:

405HP cars will be worth more than 375HP cars due to numbers (5591 versus 1344). People also like threshold numbers and over 400HP is something like a magical hurdle that will hurt the 375HP cars. It's all perception.

Within the 375 cars, the 90s with low mileage will be the most desired. 91s and 92s (in spite of 92 production numbers) and higher mileage 90s will be a bit behind. This kind of parallels the Sting Rays in that the 63 coupes are very valuable, but not to the level of the 67s (and let's not talk about 63 Z06s or especially the 5 Grand Sports).

Of the 405 cars, the three years will parallel the 3 years of the disk brake Sting Rays. The middle one, the 94, will be worth the least (but more than any of the 375 cars sort of like the 66 Corvette not quite reaching the popularity of either the 65 or especially the 67) then the 93s, and then the 95s (with the 93 Rubys perhaps approximately on par with the lowest 95s). Within the 95s the double Dunn head cars are likely to be the most valuable. Why? Because even if the heads only deliver a few extra HP (as they are purported to do), they represent about 135 cars that would be, at least theoretically, the highest HP cars before the C6 Z06 cars - and far more rare. Collectors like that type of providence - even if it really doesn't mean much in reality.

Unlike Sting Rays, there will be many very low mileage ZR-1s for a long time to come. This low mileage will be a significant determinant as long as there are many of them out there (and I hope mine is NOT one of them).

Finally, perhaps unlike Sting Rays, I thing the LPE cars will do very well - on par with the best stock examples. Ultimately, ZR-1s proved to the automotive world that performance Corvettes were back and that there would be no compromises moving forward.

For those looking for solace, look to the 58s as inspiration. For perhaps 30 years the 58s were at the bottom of the C1 ladder due to the overdone styling. Today, that very styling has driving them to be the year that is perhaps the most valuable of the C1s (excluding the 53 of course). People will in the long term look to the ZR-1s – and I predict it won’t be very long before that happens.

[ZZZZZR1]

$175,000 for a 1993 2,500 mile Ruby ZR1 and a NEW 09 ZR1 (cyber grey)


Ouch. Somebody got a bargain!

Originally Posted by ZZZZZR1

$175,000 for a 1993 2,500 mile Ruby ZR1 and a NEW 09 ZR1 (cyber grey)


Ouch. Somebody got a bargain!

Considering the ZR1 is going for roughly 140k-150k on the market, the 93 did not add much value.

[PhillipsLT5]

ZR1 was used, not new
ZR-1 was awesome Ruby 2574 miles
Ron Pratt bidding W/ Rick Hendricks by his side

[flyin ryan]

Originally Posted by Jeffvette

Considering the ZR1 is going for roughly 140k-150k on the market, the 93 did not add much value.

It's just a Ruby, .

Originally Posted by PhillipsLT5

ZR1 was used, not new
ZR-1 was awesome Ruby 2574 miles
Ron Pratt bidding W/ Rick Hendricks by his side

Used, sparingly. Even the pilot cars are still fetching over 100k with 10,000 miles.