Close to an end? Obama an illegal.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by vandornjim

And what the heck do you know anyway! All you've done is serve your country for 20+ years, lived in real combat and experienced real death on both sides, gone weeks without hot food or a shower. Watched the REAL war and corruption that doesn't get acknowledged by most media attention back home?

For those who aren't familiar with the oath taken by a US Servicemen AND the POTUS (Pres of the US), here it is.

“I, (your name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.”

Today there are many who would strike the words "swear" and "God". I didn't.

Yah if you've served that long under those conditions you must know at least as much as JVD and well you have as much right to be in the minority as he has.

Oh and as far as I can see on the official government site the oath is not as above. It's this:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Man.....I remember somebody named Jimmie Carter once when I was active duty.

It really makes me wonder. WHat would a DOMESTIC ENEMY look like anyway? I mean for reals. We took that oath of service for life. There is no termination date. So the big questions is really, what makes a domestic enemy in the first place?

Maybe it's as simple as a habitual offender in violating our own US Constitution? In reality, there is no actual written definition I can find. So I guess that leaves it up to us.

Wow JVD was in active duty. Thanks for you service JVD.
Domestic enemy definition must be what ever JVD thinks it is.
I mean he couldn't be wrong, right?
It might be as simple as an habitual offender of the constitution
but then just as when the income tax law was passed by congress (just like the health care law) it has to go to the supreme court to find out. I kinda which it had been unconstitutional but ooops it's not. (says the court)

Personally I don't want to be the "us" who decides what an "enemy of the state" is. I'm not qualified. I didn't serve. And well. I'm not in the supreme court.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by vandornjim

I don't have much respect for ANY career politican. I don't care if they are of one color or another, man or woman. I just want someone smart, loyal and experienced enough to rescue this nation and return it to what our Constitution prescribes, defines, and protects.

And FSC (E8) SGT Eric, (Army Ranger-Airborn Combat Division) those 'ol boys did a pretty d@mn good job when they wrote that Constitution back in 1787. How could they possibly have predicted back then and wrote a document that would be so important today? They just left one thing out I can see....

"A candidate for the Office of Present of the United States of America shall have served in it's armed forces and be so honorably discharged."

Right on the nail. Politicians (that is the correct spelling) are to be suspect just by the job description. They should all be attacked with jealous rage from all the nations peanut galleries. I mean that's what they signed up for isn't it?

And right on the nail too JVD on the references to constitution but I defer it's interpretation to (again) the supreme court. And I am so glad the founders saw the error to and did not include a requirement of service in the armed forces else we'd be permanently lead by those that have advance in those ranks rather than the best (most popular) citizen.
But if I were to add a requirement it'd be waiving a flag at one time or another. I mean that has to be a necessary thing right?

[John Boothby]

You guys do realize that without the draft (as it was in my day) the percentage of Americans that do choose to put "their all" on the line for our great country is dwindling. The "Citizen Soldier" is going to be a ghost of the past, in favor of the career soldiers. Personally, I am in favor of a draft. To much has fallen on the shoulders of too few the last 10 years!

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by John Boothby

You guys do realize that without the draft (as it was in my day) the percentage of Americans that do choose to put "their all" on the line for our great country is dwindling. The "Citizen Soldier" is going to be a ghost of the past, in favor of the career soldiers. Personally, I am in favor of a draft. To much has fallen on too few the last 10 years!

I've often thought Israel has a great idea.
All must serve in one capacity of another.
I served 4yrs working to make military and shuttle radios at Rockwell .
Not exactly front line but then most grunts that serve
aren't Navy Seal types either.
I had one work for me for 6 yrs. Certainly a different kind
of worker for sure.

[John Boothby]

Funny you should bring up Israel. My neighbor is a naturalized American citizen, an Israeli. He was a Major in the Army and served on the Egyptian front during the 72 war.

I have had many talks with him regarding Israel and their Army. First, Israel has a socialistic economic system. They have state funded medical. Their taxes are very high. They have manditory military service for EVERYONE, including women. They do have exceptions. When you get out of the service, they will pay for your education at the University. In addition, while in the service you pay no taxes.

Israel is a land of about 7 million and they are surrounded by many times that number of arabs, their sworn enemy. They are determined to protect their nation by any means necessay. They welcome American aide, however, they will take whatever military steps are necessary to defend their country regardless of the USA's wishes.

Scott, you are right, it takes a team. God Bless them all!!

[vandornjim]

Originally Posted by scottfab

<snip>
And I am so glad the founders saw the error to and did not include a requirement of service in the armed forces else we'd be permanently lead by those that have advance in those ranks rather than the best (most popular) citizen.

Interesting enough, EVERY POTUS since (& including) Truman has served in the military EXCEPT for Clinton and Obama. Some were THE most popular President's in this country's recent history, although many of their legacies weren’t.

Unlike ScotFab, I don't believe “popularity” is the most credible of qualifications. In fact, if that premise is used exclusively, I see it as eminent danger. The media plays too big a role in gaining popularity and keeping it. After all, Hitler was also “popular” once.

The reality of achievement, experience, sound judgment and discipline are major character traits which are focused upon especially, but not solely, with military experience.

Simply put, becoming the POTUS is NOT the time to learn about how our military, the most powerful in the world, works. And if it comes to that (like today) you had better listen to your generals, consult the Congress (as required but ignored today), and above all, support your troops (and your country) with everything you can, 100% of the time.

Originally Posted by John Boothby

I think Obama has done a stand up job regardless of the uncomprimising Tea Party Repubs that have tried to block every move he has made to try to fix what they created!

Always interesting when the defense mechanisms come out. The good ‘ol Blame Game. Happens every time when someone can’t perform. In golf it’s “the greens weren’t good enough”, in ball it’s “all the ref’s fault”. And how many times have I heard “it was like that when it came in” here in my own shop. I don’t give a Sh!t. It’s here, it has a problem, SO WE FIX IT! Just remember though, if you can’t fix it, or refuse to, then we allow someone ELSE fix it.

Originally Posted by Eric24

What we need is a strong, confident, Leader, one who is truly proud to be an American.

Amen Eric and we can’t thank you enough for your service. Boothby raises his experience in the VN war. Although a valiant effort on our troops behalf, that should always stand as THE largest single mistake in our nation’s history. Like Afghanistan, it too was NOT a declared war but our troops were sent regardless of our Constitution (many against their will), because we didn’t use the word “war”. It was merely an “armed conflict”. What happened after that was nothing less than a capital offense. Our very own government misled its citizens at home, while refusing to let our troops win. When it was all over, what did we accomplish again? I forget.

Sound familiar yet?

The Russians tried but failed but we’re there (Afghanistan) regardless. For what? To try and change a society that is so primitive you couldn’t even begin to make sense out of it. Where women are maimed or killed by men with no penalty? Where children have their hands cut off if they accept a candy or even attend school? Where the main export of the land is heroin? But more importantly, it’s where thousands of our troops have been killed and the remainder deeply insulted when our Commander in Chief repeatedly apologizes to THEM (the Afghans) after putting us there in the first place! And after, when this is all said and done, what will we have accomplished? That remains to be seen...

Eric knows firsthand the effects of that, but he can’t talk about it. So I have…

Sometimes the facts are hard to deal with and may be very frustrating. It is hard to understand how ANY Commander in Chief, with no military experience, despite his general’s recommendations, could suggest we drastically cut our armed forces, in order cut costs….so we can hand out more entitlement checks and grow our government even larger.

Been to an airport lately? Maybe had one of them 60,000 TSA agents stick their finger up your….uh….waistband? Ever wonder what the TSA costs to operate? 8.1 BILLION (2012)

Wanna know how many terrorists they caught so far? Zero.

Wanna know how many children have been in tears while being illegally searched by a TSA complete stranger? About half the number of their parents who are too ignorant to know better.

Originally Posted by John Boothby

I was just being a Wise A..! Ha Ha!

Originally Posted by John Boothby

I don't want to get on the wrong side of Jim. I might need him some day!!
Thanks Jim, for your support of our little corner of the world!!

Don’t worry John. My feelings don’t get hurt very often. Either one of them….

[John Boothby]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]
Don’t worry John. My feelings don’t get hurt very often. Either one of them….[/QUOTE]

Thank God!!

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Interesting enough, EVERY POTUS since (& including) Truman has served in the military EXCEPT for Clinton and Obama. Some were THE most popular President's in this country's recent history, although many of their legacies weren’t.

There have been 16 presidents (answers.com) who have not served in the military. It would make as much sense to require that all supreme court justices serve as a prison guard. A president leads not just the military (commander and chief) but the citizens too. He has generals to advise him as did Bush when he got us in Afghanistan in 2001. (some may have forgot that in the blame Obama for everything game)

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Unlike ScotFab, I don't believe “popularity” is the most credible of qualifications. In fact, if that premise is used exclusively, I see it as eminent danger. The media plays too big a role in gaining popularity and keeping it. After all, Hitler was also “popular” once.

Unlike JVD I don't think our system of majority vote is a "qualification". It's a measure. But I'd have to agree there is a danger. The danger is made even more possible now that corporate financing of candidates is officially legal (recent supreme court ruling). Under that ruling a corporation has the rights of individuals to donate cash and there is no limit. Beware of the ads you're about to be barraged with.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Simply put, becoming the POTUS is NOT the time to learn about how our military, the most powerful in the world, works. And if it comes to that (like today) you had better listen to your generals, consult the Congress (as required but ignored today), and above all, support your troops (and your country) with everything you can, 100% of the time.

When a rogue solder kills civilians I don't think blanket support for all troops is proper. A selective support is needed. Cutting back on military spending is a good idea. We were warned by Eisenhower about the military complex and I worked in that industry and saw the waste and corruption. Blind support for ANY entity is wrong in my opinion.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Always interesting when the defense mechanisms come out.

It sure is JVD. It sure is.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Boothby raises his experience in the VN war. Although a valiant effort on our troops behalf, that should always stand as THE largest single mistake in our nation’s history. Like Afghanistan, it too was NOT a declared war but our troops were sent regardless of our Constitution (many against their will), because we didn’t use the word “war”. It was merely an “armed conflict”. What happened after that was nothing less than a capital offense. Our very own government misled its citizens at home, while refusing to let our troops win. When it was all over, what did we accomplish again? I forget.

Exactly right. That's why I say blind support for any entity is an error. The were and are in conflicts we should never have been involved with. period
Yah we make mistakes. The trick is to not spend more lives and $ after bad.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Sometimes the facts are hard to deal with and may be very frustrating. It is hard to understand how ANY Commander in Chief, with no military experience, despite his general’s recommendations, could suggest we drastically cut our armed forces, in order cut costs….so we can hand out more entitlement checks and grow our government even larger.

I don't see the connection. If I stop wasting money by not putting another handgun in my safe I don't think I'm doing it to buy more girl scout cookies.
What's wrong is wrong. Having an open ended military budget is wrong. The US has a history of cutting back military then refocusing the $ where it's needed most. I worked for military company when the B1 bomber was virtually dropped for a time. It was the right decision. The $ was focused on better technology.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Been to an airport lately? Maybe had one of them 60,000 TSA agents stick their finger up your….uh….waistband? Ever wonder what the TSA costs to operate? 8.1 BILLION (2012)

Wanna know how many terrorists they caught so far? Zero.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...e-secret.shtml

Personally I feel safer knowing there is a TSA there.
I don't piss, whine and moan when I am hand searched. It's been going on internationally way before TSA. (low tech countries have been using this for a long time. My first experience was in 1998)

Personally I don't think Obama is the most charismatic or dynamic leader but he's no cheer leader or a bumbling fool. He's got us out of one hell hole and is working to get us out of the other. He authorized the seal team to use lethal force.
Not sure yet who I'll vote for but I sure as hell am not going to blame Obama for global warming or for the greedy bankers that tipped the economy into recession. I'm not even going to blame him for not being faster at correcting the mistakes of his predecessor.

I'm still proud to be an American but not always proud of what we do as a nation.

[John Boothby]

I support our troops 110%!

The problem is when we use the military WITHOUT a full and complete stratigey as to what the goal is and withdrawing from the conflict. We are all responsible for the actions of the "rogue" soldier. He should have never been deployed the last time. We have sent these guys and girls into a nasty conflict with ROE (rules of engagement) that are very similar to Vietnam, and we have sent them back without sufficient rest. I thought we learned that lesson in Vietnam.

I have a good friend that just returned from Afghanastan. He has 36 years in the Army and reserves and is a Sargent Major. He served 3 tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. He is now about used up. I had lunch with him the other day and he said that this war is a big waste! It should have been wrapped up years ago.

When we use our military it should be with the FULL weight of all branches. The only ROE should be "Kill the Enemy" and get the f out! Schwartskoff did it right in the first gulf war.

I am a WWII kind of guy in my thinking. "Git er done"!