NW region ?

[Aurora40]

Originally Posted by 4DSZR1

One, you don't know my opinion on the Jeff issue, because opinions on that have NO business in here, they don't help the issue or any effort to move forward from this issue. You do have my opinion on on PNW event, I still think we (Nick) were punished because of the Jeff issue.

I have not suggested I know your opinion on Jeff. I am sure you have one. Everyone has an opinion. And yes, you've made your opinion on the PNW event known. What I am wondering, is what are the facts that have led to that opinion. That is the heart of what I am wondering.

I don't see how you can say the NW event funding is because of Jeff, but then also say the discussion of Jeff has no business. You, and others, have related the two.

There have been some facts put out on the NW gathering not being funded by the registry. Mom and Jerry made some quite clear, for example. I have not seen anyone address those facts, nor put more facts on the table. Instead all I see is a lot of pot-stirring about vendettas, arrogance of the board, that sort of thing.

Do we even know how many members were at the event? Nick mentioned 30 people, but it's doubtful every person was a registry member.

When there is a clear opportunity to put the facts out, and people choose instead to stir things up, it is telling.

Originally Posted by 4DSZR1

Two, your statement "If you think facts are missing from this, fill them in (just a note, "he's my friend and I know he didn't mean it" is not a fact)." Fill the facts in? Are you kidding? That is exactly what you have done, too damn funny that you can say this and yet do it yourself. I guess I should have been clearer in my post. Unless you all the facts one should keep their mouth shut as their opinions and arbitrary fact filling has done nothing to improve the issue... Know the saying? You're either part of the solution or part of the problem....

This part I can't follow. You are saying I have filled in the facts, yet you also contend I don't have all the facts? Those things seem mutually exclusive. And how can I know if I have all the facts, if I don't know the ones I don't have?

I posted the facts I am aware of. I've notice that no one who has said "I know more facts than you" has done so. Why is that?

People who say "I know more facts than you, and my opinion is the board is full of scumbags", or "Some guy took $25k once, and our event is only $875, therefore we should be reimbursed". Part of the problem? Or part of the solution?

[Aurora40]

Originally Posted by 1990 415

I addressed you and your slander. If you consider that and yourself trivial, well that is your issue. If you actually knew ALL the pertinent information about the Jeff issue, you wouldn't continue to make your erroneous conjectures. I am through with trying to demonstrate to you that you only have part of the information. I prefer to deal with facts and not suppositions.

One, it's not slander if it's true. I've posted the facts that point to my accusation. Where are yours?

Two, you have twice now ignored the question I asked you and instead focused on personal insults. Is that what you consider dealing with facts?

I have a tip for you. If you want to demonstrate that I have only part of the information, present a piece of information that I do not have. That's all it will take, and should be quite easy for you. You can even throw a couple insults in with it.

[DaveK]

Originally Posted by 1990 415

Unlike yourself, I know Jeff very well and I do know his intent. I do know with 100% certainty that he intended to pay it back when he could. I don't waste my time making assumptions like you and Rex Ruby love to do. Try posting with facts and not guesses based on assumptions. Your assumptions just create more unnecessary slander.

I've had enough of reading this crap. Jeff Flint is a thief. He stole from the registry and he has stole from me personally. Guess what, I know this as a FACT. I don't give two hoots about whether this event was reimbursed or not, it wasn't held within the rules of the club, no public invitations were posted, so therefore it was a private event. I am sick of people standing up and saying what a 'good guy' jeff flint is. He's a thief, pure and simple, if it wasnt for the generosity of the board he'd have been charged.

Personally I think the board has mismanaged the affair and not been open enough about it. I think that they can improve that and they still have my support.

You guys go on about how deplorable it is that someone stole gas filler caps at Carlisle, but hey if a 'good ol boy' steals from the registry that's fine.

[ZRWON]

Come on guys...
who you want to crucify next for unacceptable conduct?

We've beat on
Jeff Flint, the crook
and NICK, the dumb party guy for weeks.

How about now we all jump on...

MOM, the ex, who yanked us fron the ashes & gave us 15 years of his life?

or Van Dorn. the Infidel, for fighting the museum when they didn't want to schedule special events just for a group of ZR-1 owners

or Ron Kreigh and the other officers who reimbursed themselves a travel stipend when attending regional events,

or ??? I'm sure you can add many more to my list
...when will it all end?

At least two on my list are gone and with all the rehashing and useless bitching I'm sure we lost many more!

PLEASE
It's time to stop talking about the sins of the trouble makers, past and present, and remember their GOOD contributions to the Registry and ZR-1 fun events

Some of you show more tenacity than a pit bulldog when it comes to hanging on and what have we gained from it?

BILL STROWBRIDGE
(that's just for those who don't know me or know I too AM a member)

[Aurora40]

Originally Posted by ZRWON

Some of you show more tenacity than a pit bulldog when it comes to hanging on and what have we gained from it?

That's quite a good question. What was gained? What was even the point of this thread, or the one in the regional forum?? After 8+ pages, where has it gotten us?

The NW gathering folks put together their petition for reimbursement for the event. The board weighed all the facts and decided not to fund it.

So it was put out here, in public, for what reason? Either because the poster and people involved felt it was unfair and wanted to make the public aware of the unfairness, or it was just to stir up some **** and slander the board.

If the goal was to create awareness, where are the facts? We've heard the facts from the board, the event was not announced, the information requested prior to the event was not sent, the number of registry members that were there is not even known (or even guessable, where are the event pictures?)

The folks upset with this decision have presented this: the board is arrogant, and they have it in for Jeff Flint and anyone he hangs out with. That's it. That's the sum total of facts presented. Oh, and we've been told there are secret extra facts that some people know, and that's why they know (better than us) that the board is full of jerks.

If you felt you were unjustly treated, then facts would be your best friend. You'd want us to know them so we could be equally outraged.

But after 8 pages, I don't think that's the goal. It's just to try to stir up any sort of resentment and disharmony possible, and get in some slander on the board members they disagree with. They are so obstinate that guys like "1990 415" would rather argue than simply state his name when asked!

Bill, you are one of these people. You've slung **** from the beginning, made reference to the secret facts you are privy to, and now that some **** has gotten on you too, you want us to "all just get along".

If you really feel that way, how about an apology to the board members that you've labeled as arrogant, either privately or publicly? I bet that would go a long way to resolving the issue.

And I'll just state again, to Nick, that I am more than happy to help offset your costs, to help resolve the issue. I know you stated you don't want my money since I was not involved. However, I don't think you should feel that way. I'm offering to help of my own accord, you aren't taking from me. I think it's great you guys could do a get-together with some ZR-1 folks, and would be glad to help out with it. PM an add'y and I'll mail you a check.

[RICKYRJ1]

Originally Posted by 1990 415

Jim, you know exactly who I am. We have spoken numerous times at gatherings over the last 4 years. Please don't insult me by claiming you don't know who I am. There are two 415s in Canada and you know both of the owners.

I don't beleive he meant it as a insult. I think it was a gentlemans way of saying to put more profile info so others know who you are.

[vandornjim]

Originally Posted by ZRWON

Come on guys...
who you want to crucify next for unacceptable conduct?

We've beat on
Jeff Flint, the crook
and NICK, the dumb party guy for weeks.

How about now we all jump on...

MOM, the ex, who yanked us fron the ashes & gave us 15 years of his life?

or Van Dorn. the Infidel, for fighting the museum when they didn't want to schedule special events just for a group of ZR-1 owners

or Ron Kreigh and the other officers who reimbursed themselves a travel stipend when attending regional events,

Oh WIlliam. You know what happens when you mention my name...

Originally Posted by Nick

Who gives a good gosh darn where the food came from, or who the caterer is related to? Would you be happier if she bought it at a high end store and charged more for putting on the event? By the way, where did you "hear" where the caterer got her food? Who is the rumor monger, anyway?

You guys know I shoot pretty straight: I don?t assume, guess or speculate. I also have a pretty tough hide since being around for some 20 years...

Let's not sugar coat this issue, shall we?

Recently there was an issue of misappropriation of funds. Some on the Board elected to cover it up for the benefit of the Club. All involved seem to get injured when these problems arise no matter who is to blame but now it has come to a head. The initial problem was:

Jeff Flint?s Version To You

Jeff goes on a trip and a check bounces while he?s on the road. He has to use his ZR-1 Net Registry expense card because he?s stranded and without any funds. Upon returning he contacts the Registry and tells them of his unfortunate circumstance. He immediately refunds the money but they won?t accept his actions and they demand he resign.

Actual Version as presented to the Board (Closed Door Meeting).

Jeff declares he was left stranded on the road after a problem with his bank. He uses the Registry?s card as a last resort because he has absolutely no other money, cards or funds of any kind. He has no friends or family that will help him, he?s in dire straights. He runs up in excess of $1,200 in charges. Upon returning he DOES NOT call (or email) any Board member and instead remains quiet about the charges until they are accidentally discovered by a Board member some months later. When confronted, Jeff uses the emergency excuse but doesn?t have an answer why he failed to get prior approval, nor remedy his debt to the Registry?s Treasury earlier. He voluntarily resigns as Treasurer. Months go by until he repays his debt.

The actual facts are (Based on bank statements):

The charges were made primarily to purchase auto parts for his business over a period of time of several months. He never was stranded. The amount was eventually repaid. Why was it repaid? Because it was stolen in the first place. There were some on the board that wanted to pursue Felony criminal charges, including embezzlement, grand theft and/or fraud. But in the Club?s best interest, eventually it was (arguably) decided to allow full restitution and ask for his resignation. Done deal. Or is it?

Dave Bright, having finally had enough of the turmoil, resigned from the Board and the squabbling. I know the feeling. I?ve experienced it myself. When it isn?t fun anymore, why do it? Besides, I'm sure Bright felt betrayed.

So now the same ex-Treasurer hosts a BBQ. The Registry is contacted and they agree to help out with expenses. But the event wasn?t advertised, it wasn?t added to the events schedule, nor was it made public. A couple guys here think that's the Registry's responsibility. I think not. I do all the preparations and inviting for anything we do here. Word must've gotten out seeing how many showed up here in May (225). So Jeff (Nick or whoever) invited a few friends over and had a nice afternoon. 20 or so (members) and few friends attended? Good for you guys! More should do the same.

But does the Registry have to pick up the tab for every get together? Considering the source of the invoice and the amounts within, I'd be asking some serious questions too especially when a person puts his/her professional and personal integrity on the line for a few bucks. Leopards don't change their spots...

The air has hardly cleared from the misappropriation issues, when an invoice is submitted to the Registry for $875. Excuse me? Man, I just fed 225 here last May, all you could eat, kegs of beer, and all the trimmings. Some say it was mighty tasty. Our food cost was about $1,200 and we never asked the Registry for a dime.

But while we're talking about it, what does 20 people eat for $875??? That?s a whopping $43.75 EACH!! (Oh, did I forget to mention the invoice was from the Ex-Treasurer?s sister and a non-existent company? Will it ever stop?)

You know, some of you might think I?m just kissing up to my ?ol buddy Dave Bright or maybe Ron Kreigh? The fact of the matter is for whatever reason(s) I lost my friendship with Dave sometime long ago. I?m not sure what happened, but Dave and I quit speaking a few years back. He hasn?t ever been to my shop even when in town that I can remember. In addition, I?ve noticed small things like our shop isn?t listed on the Registry?s website in the ?ZR-1 Shop? listings. Imagine that. One of the oldest and most knowledgeable ZR-1 shops in the country not listed.

At one of the Gatherings, one of my customers and his wife sat at a table with several Board members including Dave B. and Ron K. while they lambasted our shop. Someone even called me an ?infidel?. All the while I had Ron?s car in my shop out of the rain because he had wrecked it that weeknd and the window was broken. I had him remove it the next morning AFTER we had a little heart to heart chat?.while it was raining?

Was I pissed? Have hurt feelings? Of course. Who wouldn?t? Was I ready to quit? Nope. Here?s why.

You don?t have to LIKE someone to respect them. It doesn?t always have to be a popularity contest. I look first and foremost at integrity, what a person has accomplished, who they really are. Now in the case above, I might have been a little disappointed,(OK, maybe a lot disappointed), and I could have hated them for life, never came to another event, quit volunteering our facility each and every year. But leopards don't change their spots. Few on this Earth have done more for the ZR-1 owner?s community than Dave Bright. Through thick and thin he has kept all of us in touch, organized information and for the most part, been a friend in times of need to most all of you. Fortunately he's still in the background.

Friendships, even some lost ones, are still worth something. Once a loyal friend, you get the benefit of the doubt, I?ll take the blame for whatever I did (or didn?t) do in my case. It must've been significant.

Several years ago, some of you were present when I had a little disagreement with some of the NCM personnel when they told us we weren?t welcome to come to Bowling Green at our regular time. Roc, the new events director was new and didn?t fully understand the situation, so I helped to educate him. Some of you disagreed with my actions but in my opinion (and passion) it had to be done. I made at least 2 real enemies in Roc and Adam that night but I also didn't wait and hide behind a keyboard later.

About a year ago, I got a call from Roc asking me to lunch. We chatted for 2 hours about this and that, who we were and where we came from, shared some thoughts and that was it. I respected him for that gesture. And as you might have seen this past May, Roc, his staff, and the Registry volunteers (Dave Johnson) couldn?t have been more hospitable and thorough with their preparations. They came a long way from BBQ sandwhiches out of a cooler! They earned both my admiration and respect which is why I personally thanked him in front of all of you. Roc had the balls to look at the big picture. Adam and I too have made amends and work together from time to time with various events.

So some here now want to take their ball and go home. Go ahead, good luck, and have fun. But we?ve been through this before. Some want to criticize the leadership of the club. Fine. Either leave or do something about it. Nominate or volunteer, get elected and do it better. But remember, sometimes it ain?t as easy as it looks.

I think Gramps said it best. ?I probably wasn?t the most liked person when I retired from the company, but I?d like to think I was one of the most respected.?

It took me many years to fully understand that...

Dave Bright. You have my respect. You earned it a long time ago. You can stick me in the eye, just don?t kick my beagle?(she?s all mine!)
?The Infidel?

[ZRWON]

Originally Posted by Aurora40

That's quite a good question. What was gained? What was even the point of this thread, or the one in the regional forum?? After 8+ pages, where has it gotten us?.....

But after 8 pages, I don't think that's the goal. It's just to try to stir up any sort of resentment and disharmony possible, ...

Bill, you are one of these people. You've slung **** from the beginning, made reference to the secret facts you are privy to, and now that some **** you want us to "all just get along".

If you really feel that way, how about an apology to the board members that you've labeled as arrogant, either privately or publicly? I bet that would go a long way to resolving the issue...

Yes, as Aurora40 points out, I too have comitted sins and for that I apologize.

Please forgive me of my transgressions. I will strive to be a better registry member in the future.
mea culpa, mea culpa

Now, maybe someday you will also remember me for my good things

[Rex Ruby]

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Oh WIlliam. You know what happens when you mention my name...




You guys know I shoot pretty straight: I don?t assume, guess or speculate. I also have a pretty tough hide since being around for some 20 years...

Let's not sugar coat this issue, shall we?

Recently there was an issue of misappropriation of funds. Some on the Board elected to cover it up for the benefit of the Club. All involved seem to get injured when these problems arise no matter who is to blame but now it has come to a head. The initial problem was:

Jeff Flint?s Version To You

Jeff goes on a trip and a check bounces while he?s on the road. He has to use his ZR-1 Net Registry expense card because he?s stranded and without any funds. Upon returning he contacts the Registry and tells them of his unfortunate circumstance. He immediately refunds the money but they won?t accept his actions and they demand he resign.

Actual Version as presented to the Board (Closed Door Meeting).

Jeff declares he was left stranded on the road after a problem with his bank. He uses the Registry?s card as a last resort because he has absolutely no other money, cards or funds of any kind. He has no friends or family that will help him, he?s in dire straights. He runs up in excess of $1,200 in charges. Upon returning he DOES NOT call (or email) any Board member and instead remains quiet about the charges until they are accidentally discovered by a Board member some months later. When confronted, Jeff uses the emergency excuse but doesn?t have an answer why he failed to get prior approval, nor remedy his debt to the Registry?s Treasury earlier. He voluntarily resigns as Treasurer. Months go by until he repays his debt.

The actual facts are (Based on bank statements):

The charges were made primarily to purchase auto parts for his business over a period of time of several months. He never was stranded. The amount was eventually repaid. Why was it repaid? Because it was stolen in the first place. There were some on the board that wanted to pursue Felony criminal charges, including embezzlement, grand theft and/or fraud. But in the Club?s best interest, eventually it was (arguably) decided to allow full restitution and ask for his resignation. Done deal. Or is it?

Dave Bright, having finally had enough of the turmoil, resigned from the Board and the squabbling. I know the feeling. I?ve experienced it myself. When it isn?t fun anymore, why do it? Besides, I'm sure Bright felt betrayed.

So now the same ex-Treasurer hosts a BBQ. The Registry is contacted and they agree to help out with expenses. But the event wasn?t advertised, it wasn?t added to the events schedule, nor was it made public. A couple guys here think that's the Registry's responsibility. I think not. I do all the preparations and inviting for anything we do here. Word must've gotten out seeing how many showed up here in May (225). So Jeff (Nick or whoever) invited a few friends over and had a nice afternoon. 20 or so (members) and few friends attended? Good for you guys! More should do the same.

But does the Registry have to pick up the tab for every get together? Considering the source of the invoice and the amounts within, I'd be asking some serious questions too especially when a person puts his/her professional and personal integrity on the line for a few bucks. Leopards don't change their spots...

The air has hardly cleared from the misappropriation issues, when an invoice is submitted to the Registry for $875. Excuse me? Man, I just fed 225 here last May, all you could eat, kegs of beer, and all the trimmings. Some say it was mighty tasty. Our food cost was about $1,200 and we never asked the Registry for a dime.

But while we're talking about it, what does 20 people eat for $875??? That?s a whopping $43.75 EACH!! (Oh, did I forget to mention the invoice was from the Ex-Treasurer?s sister and a non-existent company? Will it ever stop?)

You know, some of you might think I?m just kissing up to my ?ol buddy Dave Bright or maybe Ron Kreigh? The fact of the matter is for whatever reason(s) I lost my friendship with Dave sometime long ago. I?m not sure what happened, but Dave and I quit speaking a few years back. He hasn?t ever been to my shop even when in town that I can remember. In addition, I?ve noticed small things like our shop isn?t listed on the Registry?s website in the ?ZR-1 Shop? listings. Imagine that. One of the oldest and most knowledgeable ZR-1 shops in the country not listed.

At one of the Gatherings, one of my customers and his wife sat at a table with several Board members including Dave B. and Ron K. while they lambasted our shop. Someone even called me an ?infidel?. All the while I had Ron?s car in my shop out of the rain because he had wrecked it that weeknd and the window was broken. I had him remove it the next morning AFTER we had a little heart to heart chat?.while it was raining?

Was I pissed? Have hurt feelings? Of course. Who wouldn?t? Was I ready to quit? Nope. Here?s why.

You don?t have to LIKE someone to respect them. It doesn?t always have to be a popularity contest. I look first and foremost at integrity, what a person has accomplished, who they really are. Now in the case above, I might have been a little disappointed,(OK, maybe a lot disappointed), and I could have hated them for life, never came to another event, quit volunteering our facility each and every year. But leopards don't change their spots. Few on this Earth have done more for the ZR-1 owner?s community than Dave Bright. Through thick and thin he has kept all of us in touch, organized information and for the most part, been a friend in times of need to most all of you. Fortunately he's still in the background.

Friendships, even some lost ones, are still worth something. Once a loyal friend, you get the benefit of the doubt, I?ll take the blame for whatever I did (or didn?t) do in my case. It must've been significant.

Several years ago, some of you were present when I had a little disagreement with some of the NCM personnel when they told us we weren?t welcome to come to Bowling Green at our regular time. Roc, the new events director was new and didn?t fully understand the situation, so I helped to educate him. Some of you disagreed with my actions but in my opinion (and passion) it had to be done. I made at least 2 real enemies in Roc and Adam that night but I also didn't wait and hide behind a keyboard later.

About a year ago, I got a call from Roc asking me to lunch. We chatted for 2 hours about this and that, who we were and where we came from, shared some thoughts and that was it. I respected him for that gesture. And as you might have seen this past May, Roc, his staff, and the Registry volunteers (Dave Johnson) couldn?t have been more hospitable and thorough with their preparations. They came a long way from BBQ sandwhiches out of a cooler! They earned both my admiration and respect which is why I personally thanked him in front of all of you. Roc had the balls to look at the big picture. Adam and I too have made amends and work together from time to time with various events.

So some here now want to take their ball and go home. Go ahead, good luck, and have fun. But we?ve been through this before. Some want to criticize the leadership of the club. Fine. Either leave or do something about it. Nominate or volunteer, get elected and do it better. But remember, sometimes it ain?t as easy as it looks.

I think Gramps said it best. ?I probably wasn?t the most liked person when I retired from the company, but I?d like to think I was one of the most respected.?

It took me many years to fully understand that...

Dave Bright. You have my respect. You earned it a long time ago. You can stick me in the eye, just don?t kick my beagle?(she?s all mine!)
?The Infidel?

Jim, GREAT post and I believe it tells the recent events very accurately.
The part about the NCM was nice to hear as I've heard it second hand, nice to hear it from the source. Thanks for taking the time to share that.
John Porter

[DaveK]

Personally I'd say Jim Van Dorn for president - of anything!