FS: 1991 Chevrolet ZR-1 NCRS Top Flight (99.5%) survivor. 9894 miles

[Zman]

Originally Posted by WantaKoth

Hey Marty. (you?re supposed to be a professional) You and bowtiguy bashed me with no problem. You didn?t even know the facts. 32k for a first offer is not a low ball 20k offer.

Here Is his response to my 32k offer. (So you know)

Some documentation? I have it ALL including a top-flight NCRS award at 99.5%. You?re not gonna buy a $40,000 car for 32,000 bucks ....at least you?re not for me.

I hope you know what you?re getting into for what these cars need. You?re gonna want proof All the known issues on these cars have been addressed. Otherwise you?re looking at 4-6k in parts and you do all the work.



You might want to look for a C4 grand sport or collectors addition. Local dealer will work on those.

Very nice how you guys treat new members.

Next time know the facts before you comment on something.

As far as name calling goes I only speak the truth so if you don?t like it don?t deserve the name.

Thanks guys.

We all buy these cars for different reasons. I will speak from both sides of the tracks. I drive these cars. I drive garage queens (ncrsblabbbla) and modified Common cars. From my experience, cars are not investments, if the seller sees it as such. Run!

[Zman]

Originally Posted by Zman

We all buy these cars for different reasons. I will speak from both sides of the tracks. I drive these cars. I drive garage queens (ncrsblabbbla) and modified Common cars. From my experience, cars are not investments, if the seller sees it such as such. Run!

Don?t get me wrong, I love these cars and understand their value. Our grandkids will see it! Enjoy them, drive them.

[Zman]

NCRS to me means "investor quality" and more personal attachment to the car from the owner. I purchased two NCRS candidates last year, a 1990 with 1900 miles and a 1995 with 2900 miles. Investor quality for sure. Here is where the problems started for me. I found myself feeling bad about racking up the miles on these cars. So I sold the 90 with now 4,300 miles and purchased two drivers for less money as a replacement. My 95 has 9,400 miles currently. One should ask yourself and answer this question honestly.

Am I going to drive it or NCRS it?

My recommendation is to buy a car that best fits your answer and stick with the plan. You as a buyer will be happier with your purchase and the buyer and seller usually have similar ideas, that usually makes the transaction easy.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by Zman

NCRS to me means "investor quality" and more personal attachment to the car from the owner. I purchased two NCRS candidates last year, a 1990 with 1900 miles and a 1995 with 2900 miles. Investor quality for sure. Here is where the problems started for me. I found myself feeling bad about racking up the miles on these cars. So I sold the 90 with now 4,300 miles and purchased two drivers for less money as a replacement. My 95 has 9,400 miles currently. One should ask yourself and answer this question honestly.

Am I going to drive it or NCRS it?

My recommendation is to buy a car that best fits your answer and stick with the plan. You as a buyer will be happier with your purchase and the buyer and seller usually have similar ideas, that usually makes the transaction easy.

To your point, Yes, An NCRS Top Flight Award is an independent and highly objective confirmation that a particular car, at the time that it was judged, is both original to how the car was initially configured, and retains it's condition as close as judged to how it was the day it was assembled.

The car in this case, scored a 99.5 even with 9,800 miles.
Said another way. A car with 9800 miles earned 4477 points out of a possible 4500 the day that they judged it.

It just does not get statistically or significantly much better than that, period.

In laymen terms. one would call that car " near-perfect"

It has been authenticated to be a genuine ZR-1, with the proper power-train, equipment colors, trim, and is correct in all elements of it's originality and as near to new condition as one could find.

Such a car is universally understood to be correct just from viewing the judging sheets, and proof that operationally, it's basic functionality, was intact.
One does not need to "see" such a car to know that, PROVIDED it has been maintained since the award, which is all that then needs to be substantiated.

Does the above have an effect on the car's value?

Absolutely, there is no doubt.

However, any individual makes their own determination of "personal" value for themselves. This means that they are welcome to ignore or value such provenance or pedigree, but at the risk of being foolish should they choose to value their own opinion over highly codified and specific objective evaluation such as is done by knowledgeable groups such as the NCRS.

You need not like it, but it is that rigorous judging that strengthens the market value of the entire mark because of it's existence and is why the values move upwards as cars become eligible for judging.

An NCRS Top Flight or Bloomington Gold, Survivor, or Benchmark designation is the very definition of a "Blue-Chip" car.


Marty

[Zman]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

To your point, Yes, An NCRS Top Flight Award is an independent and highly objective confirmation that a particular car, at the time that it was judged, is both original to how the car was initially configured, and retains it's condition as close as judged to how it was the day it was assembled.

The car in this case, scored a 99.5 even with 9,800 miles.
Said another way. A car with 9800 miles earned 4477 points out of a possible 4500 the day that they judged it.

It just does not get statistically or significantly much better than that, period.

In laymen terms. one would call that car " near-perfect"

It has been authenticated to be a genuine ZR-1, with the proper power-train, equipment colors, trim, and is correct in all elements of it's originality and as near to new condition as one could find.

Such a car is universally understood to be correct just from viewing the judging sheets, and proof that operationally, it's basic functionality, was intact.
One does not need to "see" such a car to know that, PROVIDED it has been maintained since the award, which is all that then needs to be substantiated.

Does the above have an effect on the car's value?

Absolutely, there is no doubt.

However, any individual makes their own determination of "personal" value for themselves. This means that they are welcome to ignore or value such provenance or pedigree, but at the risk of being foolish should they choose to value their own opinion over highly codified and specific objective evaluation such as is done by knowledgeable groups such as the NCRS.

You need not like it, but it is that rigorous judging that strengthens the market value of the entire mark because of it's existence and is why the values move upwards as cars become eligible for judging.

An NCRS Top Flight or Bloomington Gold, Survivor, or Benchmark designation is the very definition of a "Blue-Chip" car.


Marty

So would you drive it or wax it? I?m not arguing NCRS?s value. I personally don?t need to be told how authentic my cars are. I was trying to say the same thing. You pay $ for these certificates. You best decide what you want to do with your Zr1 before buying such a quality car. I so want that black Z06 with the 427 in it you have for sale! Anyone snag that up yet?

[Mystic ZR-1]

Marty
"... their own opinion and highly codified and specific
objective evaluation..."

I love it, you silver tongued devil...!!! 😀

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by Zman

So would you drive it or wax it? I?m not arguing NCRS?s value. I personally don?t need to be told how authentic my cars are. I was trying to say the same thing. You pay $ for these certificates. You best decide what you want to do with your Zr1 before buying such a quality car. I so want that black Z06 with the 427 in it you have for sale! Anyone snag that up yet?

I would drive it AND wax it!

I rarely put over 500 miles a year on each, if that, so at that rate it is pretty simple to retain it's condition while still enjoying it.

And yes, the hot rod Z06 is still in the front showroom.
One BAD xss Corvette!

Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by Mystic ZR-1

Marty
"... their own opinion and highly codified and specific
objective evaluation..."

I love it, you silver tongued devil...!!! 😀

Doug,
I am still trying to figure out if that was positive or negative.
Stay well friend!

Marty

[Mystic ZR-1]

+++++++++!

[bowtiguy]

WOW! I go off the grid for a week fishing and my FS thread goes viral ;-)

Wantakoth: I must have confused your offer with another I had around the same time that was in the high 20's NOT the low 20's as you pointed out. I deleted our PRIVATE messages?s. So I won?t be able to share them in their entirety . Either way, your offer was only slightly over that offer. Hardly makes me a liar, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Its well known purchasing tactic for "some" dealers/individuals to low ball sellers in the hopes of adding inventory or getting a deal. Your VERY recent addition to this forum combined with your subsequent offer led me to believe you fell into this category. I guess your activity moving forward will tell.

I will say that this forum is unlike ANY I've ever seen in the car community. The knowledge and willingness to help new members is unparalleled. If you plan to buy a C4 ZR-1 and you need help with it, these guys are as good as it gets.

Ram-G. Close the thread because a buyer & seller couldn?t agree on a price??? A Little harsh for the guy who took the time to list it. I was under the impression threads were deleted only after an item was sold.

MARTY, I'm sure you've sold more low mileage/ NCRS ZR-1's than anyone. You are in a league of your own on these near stock cars. BaT, Hagerty, Mecum and Barret-Jackson aren?t the only market indicators on these cars, but you already know that. If I lived a bit closer, my car would have been in your showroom and sold long ago, I'm sure of that. I don't know how you deal with people as seller on a regular basis.

UPDATE: The car IS still available and has not had ANY miles put on it since it completed judging August 2019. Only started and run up to temperature a few times. It has only been marketed here and the CF. That will change very soon.