FS: 1991 ZR-1 Blk/Red only 4800 miles!!!

[AnthonyGS]

Originally Posted by spork2367

Agreed for the most part. I don't think they are ever going to appreciate beyond what the MSRP was, adjusted for inflation of course.

I'd argue the twin turbo cars are more complex electrically especially the 13B-REW which was its demise in the US anyway.


Yes sadly ZR-1s are likely never going to be a great investment car in high demand.


I'm not sure today's kid will always want Porsche's. And long term I think good clean stock low mile 944 turbos have quite a bit of room to grow. Anyone that's drive them know it's a better driver's car than the air cooled 911s, but nostalgia drives price for the air cooled cars.


I once made a list of the best performance bargains under 20K and the ZR-1 is the near top as well as my 996. You can also get 944 turbos and FD RX7s under that if you look really hard and are patient or you can buy a basketcase in any flavor. The newest best absolute value is probably a Porsche Boxster. It's a great car but there are so many of them and the "chic car" reputation has driven the price down. If you replace the IMS with the IMS solution, you'll have a car you can beat on for 200K miles that will still look better and handle better than any of its contemporaries.


The final cars on my best performing list are the C5 Z06 (just now starting to reach the 20k mark), an '03-'04 Cobra terminator and a nice LS1 SS or ram air Trans Am. Those cars are starting to turn a corner value wise as well.


The two cars I am considering trading my ZR-1 for are a nice 944 turbo and a white '01 Z06. Honestly, I'd most likely do some more things to the ZR-1 though and sell it on bring a trailer or go the long sale route. I have a really nice '91 blk/blk with only 68k miles and so many of the normal ZR-1 things are already addressed.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

These threads are absolutely fascinating.
Every Corvette made from 1953 to 1982, if pristine, sells for at least what it stickered for.
Absolutely EVERY year.
Didn't happen right away, but it happened to every single year.
Older ones sell for up to 25-30 times sticker.


I am ever so thankful that you have all warned us that this phenomenon, is without a doubt atypical, and has come to a crashing end.
Wow, I guess we all should just junk them at this point, being as they will never be worth a thing.
Oh, other cars will have value, but Corvettes, no?
Absolutely amazing!
How can we ever thank you all enough for these insights?
Not that I ever bought it for an investment, nor kept it for 23 years for any reason other than appreciation.
Oh well.
It is good to know that some of those foreign marks are increasing in value.
Their increases might almost cover their parts and repair costs, but hey who cares, those cars have value unlike our Corvettes.
I'll pass though.
My DRM will still kick the snot out of most of them, even though it is near valueless.
I rather enjoy letting them view those taillights.
Marty

[AnthonyGS]

The prices that 53-82s fetch has nothing to do with ZR-1s sadly. It's not a correlation that can be made. It doesn't apply to any Corvette after '82. I'm not even sure it applies to all of the C3s really.


Yep the ZR-1 is a fascinating performance machine, and is faster than many other cars that are appreciating in value. Your DRM isn't valueless, it's just way undervalued compared to its performance capabilities when looked at in context of cars of the same period. Being faster won't change that. I've seen dog slow 150 hp naturally aspirated 944s fetch more than ZR-1s in many cases.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by AnthonyGS

The prices that 53-82s fetch has nothing to do with ZR-1s sadly. It's not a correlation that can be made. It doesn't apply to any Corvette after '82. I'm not even sure it applies to all of the C3s really.


Yep the ZR-1 is a fascinating performance machine, and is faster than many other cars that are appreciating in value. Your DRM isn't valueless, it's just way undervalued compared to its performance capabilities when looked at in context of cars of the same period. Being faster won't change that. I've seen dog slow 150 hp naturally aspirated 944s fetch more than ZR-1s in many cases.

Really?
The ZR-1 is a Corvette correct?
So the thought is that out of 53-95, the ZR-1 will be the first and only Corvette to break the trend. A trend that has held for 30 years of production Corvettes.
While that is certainly within the realm of possibility, it has to be one of the least probable events to occur, based simply upon 30 years of documented history that supports the exact opposite.
Again, I prefaced this with "pristine" condition cars from 53-82.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it would certainly help to at least attempt to explain what factually will cause this calamitous value collapse event to occur.

For those of you that may be too young to know or remember, the exact same dire predictions were made about C-3 Corvettes, particularly, the later, post chrome cars.
They were so cheap you could buy half a dozen for $10,000.00.
Those days are gone.
There are no factual trends or events cited that support the value collapse theory.
To the contrary, facts and trends for C-4's in general, are consistently following the same trajectory as the C-3 generation before them.
Absent a true game-changing event, history tends to follow the same path.
Our combined conjecture pales when the factual patterns are empirically evident.
Simply look at the values of 53-82, and how they steadily climbed and in EVERY case matched then exceeded original MSRP.
Time and inflation are as unstoppable as waves in the ocean.
Those forces have shaped the values of solid axle cars, mid years, and third generation cars, and will continue to do the same for the generations to come.
Back to one of the best statements made, I believe by Z51 Jeff, " how many 4800 mile black red cars are out there?"
If you don't want it, you won't pay up.
If you do want it, then price becomes far less important.
Enjoy your cars.
I do.
Marty

[AnthonyGS]

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

The MMA has annihilated professional boxing. NASCAR is dying a slow death. The once invincible NFL is crumbling. Our great republic is being infiltrated by socialists thanks largely to millennials. TV sitcoms are gone. No one wants a black and white TV anymore and most people don’t want a car with a carburetor either. No one watches the Indy 500 anymore either. There’s no market for parachute pants either. Ford is only going to make two cars because everyone wants suvs and crossovers now. The car hobby is experiencing its last hurrah.

Legislators are doing all the can to remove our rights to drive ourselves and will likely succeed someday. Then there will be nothing to do but text while riding big delighting all the younger generations.

The dinosaurs thought they’d live forever too. A lot more than 30 years of history had them on top.

I’m also big time into airplanes and trains. No one today gives a crap about steam locomotives or old aircraft either. I fly RC airplanes. 30 years ago you had to build your airplane out of wood, it flew on nitromethane, and your radio was AM or FM. Now they are made out of foam in china, electric powered, and fly off 2.4 ghz spread spectrum radios.

But it’s a Corvette right? Captain Kirk was a womanizing tough guy who today would be imprisoned for being a toxic masculine sexual predator.

The world changes, even if you don’t. 30 years ago a lot of people said they’d never use computers too.... how’d that work out?

Today’s kids are going to want a Prius or a Scion FR-S or maybe a WRX. They’ll have as much desire for my ZR-1 as I do for a Model A.

[Z51JEFF]

All the arguing about values. Honestly,anybody that knows these cars knows that 91 is worth $30K. You can argue the point,market whatever. One of the most desirable color combinations dictates what this car will to for and nobody can go off a price chart they read in a magazine. Please,don’t come back witt it’s what the market will pay BS.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by AnthonyGS

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

The MMA has annihilated professional boxing. NASCAR is dying a slow death. The once invincible NFL is crumbling. Our great republic is being infiltrated by socialists thanks largely to millennials. TV sitcoms are gone. No one wants a black and white TV anymore and most people don’t want a car with a carburetor either. No one watches the Indy 500 anymore either. There’s no market for parachute pants either. Ford is only going to make two cars because everyone wants suvs and crossovers now. The car hobby is experiencing its last hurrah.

Legislators are doing all the can to remove our rights to drive ourselves and will likely succeed someday. Then there will be nothing to do but text while riding big delighting all the younger generations.

The dinosaurs thought they’d live forever too. A lot more than 30 years of history had them on top.

I’m also big time into airplanes and trains. No one today gives a crap about steam locomotives or old aircraft either. I fly RC airplanes. 30 years ago you had to build your airplane out of wood, it flew on nitromethane, and your radio was AM or FM. Now they are made out of foam in china, electric powered, and fly off 2.4 ghz spread spectrum radios.

But it’s a Corvette right? Captain Kirk was a womanizing tough guy who today would be imprisoned for being a toxic masculine sexual predator.

The world changes, even if you don’t. 30 years ago a lot of people said they’d never use computers too.... how’d that work out?

Today’s kids are going to want a Prius or a Scion FR-S or maybe a WRX. They’ll have as much desire for my ZR-1 as I do for a Model A.

100% opinion

0% fact


Things indeed change,which validates your speculation, but even your millennial and dinosaur analogies may sound cute, but remain pure speculation, as they do not disprove anything as far as Corvette values.

No facts.
Dare I say "fake news"?

By the way,
Some of those Corvettes with carburetors sell at 40 times original MSRP, AND continue to climb, many being purchased by men and women who were not alive when the car was new.
Perhaps we should talk with them about dinosaurs.

I don't wish to argue.
Show the trends.
Show the facts.


Or, better yet, forget all of this time wasting mutual conjecture and drive and enjoy the car!
Now where is my 7 transistor radio......................


Oh, and I have areal nice WRX if one of those young or old kids are looking for one.


Marty

[lfalzarano]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

100% opinion

0% fact


Things indeed change,which validates your speculation, but even your millennial and dinosaur analogies may sound cute, but remain pure speculation, as they do not disprove anything as far as Corvette values.

No facts.
Dare I say "fake news"?

By the way,
Some of those Corvettes with carburetors sell at 40 times original MSRP, AND continue to climb, many being purchased by men and women who were not alive when the car was new.
Perhaps we should talk with them about dinosaurs.

I don't wish to argue.
Show the trends.
Show the facts.


Or, better yet, forget all of this time wasting mutual conjecture and drive and enjoy the car!
Now where is my 7 transistor radio......................


Oh, and I have areal nice WRX if one of those young or old kids are looking for one.


Marty

Right on!!!!


Lou

[TX '90 ZR1]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

100% opinion

0% fact


Things indeed change,which validates your speculation, but even your millennial and dinosaur analogies may sound cute, but remain pure speculation, as they do not disprove anything as far as Corvette values.

No facts.
Dare I say "fake news"?

By the way,
Some of those Corvettes with carburetors sell at 40 times original MSRP, AND continue to climb, many being purchased by men and women who were not alive when the car was new.
Perhaps we should talk with them about dinosaurs.

I don't wish to argue.
Show the trends.
Show the facts.


Or, better yet, forget all of this time wasting mutual conjecture and drive and enjoy the car!
Now where is my 7 transistor radio......................


Oh, and I have areal nice WRX if one of those young or old kids are looking for one.


Marty

I'm with you again Marty.
Let's just drive and enjoy. A lot of enjoyment can also be had by keeping the cars in top shape!!
If you are in the market for one of these cars, make an informed decision on the particular car and buy your preference at an amount where you are comfortable.
All the apples in the basket are not the same. Sometimes you find a worm, so check closely before deciding where to bite!

[32valvZ]

Originally Posted by AnthonyGS

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that the past predicts the future. It doesn’t. Things change.

The only thing you nailed is that a ZR-1 is a Corvette.

Ever meet a millennial? Meet lots of them? They hate Corvettes for the most part and love the Prius. They take Uber, Lyft and public transportation. They shun driving. They are busy texting while driving and don’t care about horsepower, speed, or handling.

The MMA has annihilated professional boxing. NASCAR is dying a slow death. The once invincible NFL is crumbling. Our great republic is being infiltrated by socialists thanks largely to millennials. TV sitcoms are gone. No one wants a black and white TV anymore and most people don’t want a car with a carburetor either. No one watches the Indy 500 anymore either. There’s no market for parachute pants either. Ford is only going to make two cars because everyone wants suvs and crossovers now. The car hobby is experiencing its last hurrah.

Legislators are doing all the can to remove our rights to drive ourselves and will likely succeed someday. Then there will be nothing to do but text while riding big delighting all the younger generations.

The dinosaurs thought they’d live forever too. A lot more than 30 years of history had them on top.

I’m also big time into airplanes and trains. No one today gives a crap about steam locomotives or old aircraft either. I fly RC airplanes. 30 years ago you had to build your airplane out of wood, it flew on nitromethane, and your radio was AM or FM. Now they are made out of foam in china, electric powered, and fly off 2.4 ghz spread spectrum radios.

But it’s a Corvette right? Captain Kirk was a womanizing tough guy who today would be imprisoned for being a toxic masculine sexual predator.

The world changes, even if you don’t. 30 years ago a lot of people said they’d never use computers too.... how’d that work out?

Today’s kids are going to want a Prius or a Scion FR-S or maybe a WRX. They’ll have as much desire for my ZR-1 as I do for a Model A.

I can see your point. And yes, things are always changing... However, you can look at this as just the opposite. People also long for the old times and things from the old times...

Look at the gas light bulb craze thats happening right now... Go into a Home Depot or Lowes and look at all the Chinese reproductions of a gas light fixture....

Take watches... I like watches.... I like many types of watches... Of course a new Apple watch is the new thing....and pretty cool... that doesnt devalue an 80's Submariner at all.... Check the prices on them... still between $5-7k

Another interest I have is quality home audio... so what use would I have for a vintage RCA Victor? Not for its sound quality obviously.... but the cool factor of having it in my home as a piece of history and a conversation piece.

Do you see what Im saying? Anything old, or rare in good condition, be it a cash register, a clock, antique furniture or a Corvette, will eventually be something that people will want in the future.

What comes around goes around. Value is built through rarity and the longing to have things others do not. Its simple human nature.

....and as a car guy.... Id love to have a Model A in my collection..... why wouldn't I?