Your Mileage May Vary

[Corvettes White]

I recall it was for the forthcoming regulations they comparing. Not the then current ones. GM had a policy of not making cars that would be subject to the tax. The skip shift, and the earlier Doug Nash with automatic overdrive helped get the cars over the target. Also the manger was goatting the engineering teams. As a result the LSX motors that showed up in '97.

[8cam]

I'm surprised by all the low highway numbers. Either we have lots of cars in poor states of tune (doubtful), or you guys need to go for more extended runs. When I head to Florida, the roads are mostly flat and an easy 75-80mph cruise gives me an average right at 26mpg, brought down by a few stop signs near the end - its nearly 28 for most of the trip. Heading up to Bowling Green, the roads are more hills and with just one stop, I get 25mpg overall.

[We Gone]

3.73 effected the 91. I can do 27-28 in the 93 with stock gearing.

[GOLDCYLON]

I lost a few mpg when I pulled the secondaries but those butterflies are not coming back

[Hog]

The only Corvette that I am seeing on the 49 state EPA list is the 1989 Callaway Turbo Vettes. There are only a couple GM vehicles on that list from 1986-1993. The TBI 350 Caprice(police version), Cadillac Allante, Cadillac Broughham and a commercial vehicles.

Of course the Dodge Viper is on that list with its 12mpg/20mpg city/highway ratings

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Hog

The only Corvette that I am seeing on the 49 state EPA list is the 1989 Callaway Turbo Vettes. There are only a couple GM vehicles on that list from 1986-1993. The TBI 350 Caprice(police version), Cadillac Allante, Cadillac Broughham and a commercial vehicles.

Of course the Dodge Viper is on that list with its 12mpg/20mpg city/highway ratings

But Darrell's gold leaf book says not but LT5's!!!

[GOLDCYLON]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

But Darrell's gold leaf book says not but LT5's!!!

I said the LT5 was the only C4 corvette to beat the gas guzzlers tax. You are the individual talking about Camaros and the like. I made zero statements about any other vehicles. You and Hog went there. Just like you arrogantly decided I received my information from the Internet

It's in hard print as as stated fact. The gold leaf book as you state is the standard on the LT5 program. However some folks will never believe what they read or see.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

I said the LT5 was the only C4 corvette to beat the gas guzzlers tax. You are the individual talking about Camaros and the like. I made zero statements about any other vehicles. You and Hog went there. Just like you arrogantly decided I received my information from the Internet

It's in hard print as as stated fact. The gold leaf book as you state is the standard on the LT5 program. However some folks will never believe what they read or see.

Cool beans!
Did you purchase a new C4 in 1989 with gas guzzlers tax?
I did with out having to pay it!

[Vette73]

My 73 with a worked 350 w 3:70 gears and a 4 speed gets no more than ten...

Maybe I should slow down ..Lol...

[Hog]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

I said the LT5 was the only C4 corvette to beat the gas guzzlers tax. You are the individual talking about Camaros and the like. I made zero statements about any other vehicles. You and Hog went there. Just like you arrogantly decided I received my information from the Internet

It's in hard print as as stated fact. The gold leaf book as you state is the standard on the LT5 program. However some folks will never believe what they read or see.

There has been some miscommunication.

Big John stated:
"The truth is; it is the skip shift that beat the gas guzzler tax"

Goldcylon countered:
"Not accurate even the base c4 had skip shift. The base C4 did not beat the Gas Guzzler Tax....the LT5 did"

Big John the retorts:
"That is interesting my base C4's didn't have the gas guzzler tax!"

Goldcylon adds:
"Read the Heart of the Beast. All C4s did with the exception of the ZR-1. It was the ONLY C4 to beat it.

Here is quote from the Vice President of GM, Bob Schultz page 45

"Well, if the L98 can't beat gas guzzler, what chance has LT5 got? "It meets it" Roy piped up. you're telling me we've got a 245 hp engine that can't [questioned Schulz] " the answer is obvious, isn't it? Give the L98 to Lotus and let them fix it!"

While 1to4 was piece of the puzzle low idle speed and the calibration were key factors as well.

The 405 hp model, surpassed the gas guzzler threshold of 22.5 mpg by a comfortable margin, achieving 23.1 on the EPA scale. HC, CO and NOx emission were also reduced. This info is on page 75. "

Big John return with:
"Like on the Internet don't believe everything you read!
My 93, 95, 96, 98 and 06 Corvettes plus my 95, 96 Camaros and 96 Roadmaster beat the gas guzzler tax! " (bolded emphasis mine-Hog)

Here John is stating that LIKE everything on the internet, don't believe everything you read. He is not saying that Goldcylon is actually citing the internet, merely that one must use caution when citing A source, be it a book, or the internet. He then goes on to list some C4 Corvettes AND other cars which also beat the guzzler tax.


Goldcylon IMO then mistook the previous post and then states this:

"I provided the proof from the Heart of the Beast by Anthony Young. I suggest you buy a copy and read it. It gives a lot if history about the LT5 program. I didn't relate something that somebodies cousins sisters brother posted to the Internet like you imply with this post.

Roadmasters and Camaros are an apple to oranges argument. The base C4 did not meet the EPAs threshold."

IMO the comments about the Roadmasers and Camaros weren't part of the comparison to the LT5 Corvette, but the LT1 Corvette(or base Corvette) when being compared to the LT5 Vette is certainly valid.


I then myself provided the EPA source that stated that there were no C4 Vettes that got the guzzler tax, and showed the vehicles that did get the tax.
"The only Corvette that I am seeing on the 49 state EPA list is the 1989 Callaway Turbo Vettes. There are only a couple GM vehicles on that list from 1986-1993. The TBI 350 Caprice(police version), Cadillac Allante, Cadillac Broughham and a commercial vehicles.

Of course the Dodge Viper is on that list with its 12mpg/20mpg city/highway ratings "

Then John stated:
"But Darrell's gold leaf book says not but LT5's!!!"
This response is worded oddly, so perhaps was misconstrued?
Which in essence says that what I provided cant be true because it goes against what the "Heart of the Beast" provides that the only C4 to not get the guzzler tax was the ZR-1.

Goldcylon IMO (perhaps because of the earlier misunderstanding regarding non Corvette comparisons, which really weren't part of the argument plus thinking that John literally said that Goldcylon has taken this info from the Internet, when this isn't what was really stated) and takes offense with this and writes:
"I said the LT5 was the only C4 corvette to beat the gas guzzlers tax. You are the individual talking about Camaros and the like. I made zero statements about any other vehicles. You and Hog went there. Just like you arrogantly decided I received my information from the Internet

It's in hard print as stated fact. The gold leaf book as you state is the standard on the LT5 program. However some folks will never believe what they read or see.

IMO Any source can have errors or omissions. be it a book or an internet site.

So the conundrum is:
1) Was the 1990-1995 ZR-1 Corvette the only C4 Corvette to be exempt from the EPA "Gas Guzzler" tax?

IMO this exchange clearly illustrates the importance of CLEARLY making a point, and CLEARLY understanding what is being read.
I could have been clearer when explaining the list I was referring to, I called it the EPA list, when I should have been clearer by saying the EPA list of cars that will receive the EPAs "Gas Guzzler" tax.

You can tell me to buzz off now. lol