Interesting DOHC vs. pushrod 500+ motors

[todesengel]

Originally Posted by FU2

Spring couldn't come soon enough for me.

I will be up in MD, and NJ next week. I am not looking forward to sharing your weather.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by FU2

Spring couldn't come soon enough for me.

4 months BG

Rob,why do you drive to cold places go to nice warm places.

Pete

[Hog]

Originally Posted by Aurora40

I don't know if you mean shelving the LT5, or shelving the premium V8?

Shelving the LT5, it sounds like that may have been the right move for the base Corvette. It's too bad they didn't at least build the '95 engine and have the C4 go out with a huge bang.

I think shelving the premium V8 is a really poor move. I've no idea what Cadillac expects to sell car-wise besides CTS's in the future. With no premium V8, they really will be at a loss in the large lux car market. At this point, even Hyundai has a DOHC V8, and it makes 430hp to boot.

GM had really neglected the Northstar along the way, so it was probably a huge endeavor to update it. Back in 1992, it made 295hp. By the last redesign, 14 years later, it was only up to 330.

The Northstar did have its 443hp and 469hp flavours in the XLR-V and STS-V, and those engines were rated using the SAE J1349 "Certified Power" rating system. These 2 engines identical, but the intake and exhausts differ, as does the calibration I assume.

Only the 2010 LH2 4.6 busted over the 300hp hump with 320hp@6400rpm/315 lb/ft@4400rpm using VVT in the STS.

LD8 275hp@6000rpm/295 lb/ft @ 4400rpm in the Caddy DTS.

L37 is 292hp@6300rpm/288 lb/ft@4500rpm in the Caddy DTS


I would like to go back and see what your 295 hp Northstar and what my 300hp Northstar would put out using the newer "Certified Power", I would be more curious to see what the 375hp and 405 hp LT5's actually output.

peace
Hog

[todesengel]

Originally Posted by Pete

4 months BG

Rob,why do you drive to cold places go to nice warm places.

Pete

If I could, I would. I typically send my guys to the warmer places, and I myself go where nobody really wants to lol.

BTW, I got one package from Jerry yesterday, and should get the other today. I will forwrd it to you as soon as it gets here

[Aurora40]

Originally Posted by Hog

The Northstar did have its 443hp and 469hp flavours in the XLR-V and STS-V, and those engines were rated using the SAE J1349 "Certified Power" rating system. These 2 engines identical, but the intake and exhausts differ, as does the calibration I assume.

Only the 2010 LH2 4.6 busted over the 300hp hump with 320hp@6400rpm/315 lb/ft@4400rpm using VVT in the STS.

LD8 275hp@6000rpm/295 lb/ft @ 4400rpm in the Caddy DTS.

L37 is 292hp@6300rpm/288 lb/ft@4500rpm in the Caddy DTS


I would like to go back and see what your 295 hp Northstar and what my 300hp Northstar would put out using the newer "Certified Power", I would be more curious to see what the 375hp and 405 hp LT5's actually output.

peace
Hog

The RWD Northstar came out in 2005, and made 320hp. The "V" Northstar was supercharged, not really an evolution of the engine.

You can see what the 300hp L37 made using certified power, as it was still in production after GM made the switch. It dropped about 10-15hp if I recall.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Do you think the Northstar has been continually evolved to keep on top of the competition? What is your contention?

[Hog]

Originally Posted by Aurora40

The RWD Northstar came out in 2005, and made 320hp. The "V" Northstar was supercharged, not really an evolution of the engine.

You can see what the 300hp L37 made using certified power, as it was still in production after GM made the switch. It dropped about 10-15hp if I recall.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are getting at. Do you think the Northstar has been continually evolved to keep on top of the competition? What is your contention?

You stated that the Northstar output was "only 330hp" after its ?? year production run. I was simply stating that there were Northstar engine that outputted much more than that.
Then I proceeded to show what the last of the Premium V8's was outputting in it's last year of production.

The 2006 L37 that was rated using certified power is different than my older 1998 L37. They would have different outputs, as the camshaft specs are different. In 2004 it was rated at 300hp, in 2006 it was rated at 292 SAE "certified".

To answer your question, no I dont think the Northstar was continually evolved to stay on top of the competition. The only attempt at staying on top of the competition was the introduction of the "V" series 4.4l SC engines. Most of the engineering changes were to help to fix issues with the engine, or to enhance fuel economy/emissions. Other than the supercharged LC3 engine, little was done to add power in any significant way.

peace
Hog

[Aurora40]

Originally Posted by Hog

The 2006 L37 that was rated using certified power is different than my older 1998 L37. They would have different outputs, as the camshaft specs are different. In 2004 it was rated at 300hp, in 2006 it was rated at 292 SAE "certified".

The FWD engine was "significantly" redesigned for the 2000 model year. That engine also made 300hp in L37 trim. And that motor was eventually tested under the new SAE procedures. You are correct, they obviously never retested the 1992-1999 motor.

While they changed like 80% of the parts, had a better intake, faster burning heads, a more powerful PCM, for the 2000 redesign, they still didn't crank up the output any higher. I've no idea why they made such a complete change to the motor, and had as their only real goal to let it run on regular unleaded.

They had an opportunity again with the RWD Northstar, and bumped the power up a measly 20. I never understood why they were so content to let the Northstar fade away like that. When it first came out, it was widely hailed, and quite potent compared to the competition. Then it pretty much just coasted for 18 years until they killed it.

I don't really consider the S/C Northstar to be relevant. It was hand-built and low volume. It never would have been viable from both a cost and a size standpoint in most of GM's cars. But you are technically correct, they did have one specific large bump in power. I think an S/C Northstar would be a pretty sweet motor, though I confess I'd be scared to own one long-term.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by todesengel

The point wasn't missed.

You went on in a post after Franks talking about drivability. The definition of that is going to be based upon a persons own goals, not someone elses.

There are many 500 hp pushrod engines that don't idle like the examples shown.

you're still missing the point. the only people who talk about hp/l are the ones who's cars aren't fast but the owners like to think they are. aka ricers

[todesengel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

you're still missing the point. the only people who talk about hp/l are the ones who's cars aren't fast but the owners like to think they are. aka ricers

f1 car designers are ricers? Exotics are ricers? Apparently they fall in line with your reasoning since the make a huge point of hp/l.

It never ceases to amaze me how people just throw that word around. I, like the exotic, f1 crowd am also a ricer I guess. I can also state that big cubes don't scare any of my imports. Refer to me however you like, I am very comfortable in my skin, so so continue with your "point"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by todesengel

f1 car designers are ricers? Exotics are ricers? Apparently they fall in line with your reasoning since the make a huge point of hp/l.

It never ceases to amaze me how people just throw that word around. I, like the exotic, f1 crowd am also a ricer I guess. I can also state that big cubes don't scare any of my imports. Refer to me however you like, I am very comfortable in my skin, so so continue with your "point"

i've never heard anyone talk about hp/l other then people who put a 5" exhaust tip on a civic. I don't know why you're taking this so personally, we get it you own imports, guess what so do most of us here. Seems like you need to get over yourself a bit