Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? - Page 3 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

WB9MCW · 08-07-2009

Michael Alan Weiner (born March 31, 1942 in New York City), better known by his pseudonym Michael Savage, is an American conservative political satirist, radio host, author, and political commentator. He is the host of The Savage Nation, a nationally-syndicated talk-radio show that airs throughout the United States on Talk Radio Network. The Savage Nation has a very large audience, ranging from 8 to 10 million listeners on 350 stations across America, making his show the 3rd largest radio talk show in the country. He holds master's degrees in medical botany and medical anthropology and he earned a Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley, in nutritional ethnomedicine. As Michael Weiner, he has written books on herbal medicine and homeopathy. As Michael Savage, he has written four New York Times-bestselling political books.

Michael Savage calls himself an "independent-minded individualist" and says that he "fits no stereotype." Savage criticizes "big government", homosexuality and activism on some issues, and liberalism, accuses the media of liberal bias, and champions environmentalism and animal rights. He has said that there are three aspects that define a society: borders, language, and culture. He founded the Paul Revere Society in 1996 with his son Russell to protest illegal immigration; he says the group's mission is to "bring together Americans who actively seek to take back our borders, our language, and our traditional culture from the liberal left corroding our great nation.

If Savage owned a Hot Rod ( he sold his collector Caddy when he moved to Florida) no doubt he would have a Fidanza in it!

XfireZ51 · 08-07-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhipsher

Sorry Mr spell check. Michael Savage is the man.

rhipsher · 08-07-2009

Very nicely done Bryan. What was really funny was when Charles Barkley thought he was going to out wit Savage in a radio debate. Savage made him look like an un educated dumb azz who knew nothing about the history of this nation. Barkley got slaughtered and at the end found himself starting to agree with savage on imigration policy ect.

rkreigh · 08-24-2010

fidanza, and I've run both the sprung and unsprung and with the big Ol LPE 234 cams honestly it's just loud either way

sounds more like a diesel than an LT5! but the lightweight TI rods, and flywheel help compensate for the bigger stroker crank to make the LSV 390 one free revving engine with the 4.10 gears.

actually it's a bit too much gear, but as the drag boys say, never too much gear, just too little traction and too few RRRRRsssss

blueprinting the tranny helps a bit, as does going to the shockproof oil, but the alum flywheels gonna rattle. from "not much" if you have a stock cammed lt5 and a tight clearance tranny to "diesel truck" like my car even at 950 rpms due to the big cams (which sound cool)

the advantages of the lightweight flywheel are somewhat misunderstood.

they help the car rev faster, but don't work as well getting it off the line due to the lower inertia, especially with stock gears.

but with 430 pounds at the tire, with 4.10 gears, the alum flywheel works very well and I probably wouldn't go back as the fast revving and reduction in mass on the car overall are worth it

I'm looking at the new SVT McLeod dual disk which I believe comes with a dedicated flywheel setup as I can "drive through" and slip the clutch a bit in 3rd and 4th gear when the car is really hooking up.

I've been running around on the hoosier drag radials this summer and it's just way too much fun as you can now feel what 500 at the tire feels fully hooked up.

WB9MCW · 08-24-2010

I bought the ceramic race clutch and an alum. flywheel from CC....other than the dreaded rut,,rut,,rut,,, "tranny-gears" rattle at idle and low rpm's under load...the new setup is unreal...rev to 3500 dump the clutch and hold on...all my friends are impressed to say the least...I am now testing the life span of half shaft u-joints...lol

I kept the old flywheel (in fine shape) so I can revert her back if ever needed!!!

"Ceramic" it is a beautiful thing.............................

I WENT WITH THIS STAGE 3 KIT AND THE ALUM FLYWHEEL AND BOLT KIT >>> http://www.carolinaclutch.com/ShowItem/108823.aspx

I really like my Fidanza and the Stage 3 race clutch.

http://www.fidanza.com/

But the syncro rattle is there for sure with out the DM stock flywheel.

Paul Workman · 08-24-2010

Not that it matters, but is it actually synchros causing the rattle? I always assumed it was just the lash between the input gear and the carrier and then between the carrier gears and the respective gears on the main shaft - with a little bearing lash thrown in to boot...No?

P.

WB9MCW · 08-25-2010

FROM THE ZR-1 LISTSERVE NET

Subject: Re: ZF Gear Rattle

>So I figure that that
>is part of the problem in the ZF, the off gears actually vibrate on the
>shaft when in another gear.

I don't think that's the problem with the ZF--at least not the one that
makes gear rattle.

Gear rattle, at least the phrase as used by manual transmission
engineers, refers to the noise made by the gear teeth "rocking"
Obviously, gears must have some clearance between the gear teeth. This
clearance provides the space necessary for gear rattle.

the impact of the gear teeth makes a click noise. Obviously, this happens
quite rapidly and the noise we hear is a rattle.

Loud gear rattle is comparatively rare in passenger car manual
transmissions, but is not unheard of.

But, if you really want cases of loud gear rattle, just hang around heavy
trucks. In fact, the dual-mass flywheel idea is common in diesels used in
semi-truck-tractor. It used a Fuller, RoadRanger 15-speed, dual-counter
shaft transmission. All it took was a few miles to warm up the
transmission and you heard the true meaning of gear rattle.

Now, why is gear rattle a particular problem with the ZF?
The severity of gear rattle is affected by two major transmission design
features 1) "center distance" which is the linear distance between the
centerline of the input/main shafts and the counter shaft and 2) the mass
of the gears in the transmission. In the case of the ZF S6-40, both these
factors are large. The ZF has the longest center distance of any
passenger car manual transmission and is larger than even some truck
transmissions. It also has very massive gears compared to say an old
Muncie four-speed or other passenger car manual you might have had apart.

Combine all this and you have gear rattle from ZFs at idle. Replace the
dual-mass with a standard flywheel and significantly increase the gear
rattle. If you have an early ZF (89-93.5) they rattle more than the late
ZFs.

>For those of you into doing your own thing, the following cured 85% of
>my gear rattle. 20-50 wt motor oil with a dash of slick Fifty manual
>trans stuff.
20W50 engine oil for the factory-recommended 5W30 is an good strategy to
reduce gear rattle. In fact, if you put 80W140 gear oil in the ZF, you'd
probably have no gear rattle at all.

The problem with use of high-viscosity lubricants in the ZF is increased
parasitic loss, degraded shift feel and, in some cases, degraded
the parasitic loss and the shift effort, we'd find it degraded compared
to a transmission in similar condition but lubricated with a low-vis
engine oil or gear lubricant.

There is a particular Red Line product that is a solution along these
lines, however, but it is *not* approved by wizards at ZF and not even
suggested for street use by Red Line Oil. Nevertheless, it seems to work.
"Superlight ShockProof" were developed mainly for road race and stock car
use. Rumor has it that Superlight is very popular for transmissions in
Winston Cup qualifying.

Again, let me stress: this is not a discussion for those who believe the
only lubricant you can put in a ZF is either the GM 5W30 engine oil or
the Castrol 10W60 synthetic.

I've used Light Shockproof in both my ZFs and the five-speed transaxle in
my daily driver for a number of years. There have been no failures,
spectrographic oil analysis has never indicated a problem and shift feel
is as good or better than the same transmissions lubricated with Red Line
MTL. The only negative I've experienced with Light Shockproof is cold
with the exception of the oil analysis, this is somewhat anecdotal
information. Sometime next year, I plan to have the ZF in my ZR-1 torn
down and then I'll see what wear levels are present in a transmission
that has had the GM factory fill lubricant in it only its first few
thousand miles. Maybe I'll do both my ZFs. The other one has *never* had
a ZF-approved lubricant in it.
=======================

Bob G · 11-30-2010

Ram 9.5 Dual disc ,Awaiting the first one for the LT5

Karl · 02-20-2020

I have none of the above!

SPEC SC66A-2 Aluminum flywheel.

14lbs.

View Poll Results: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have?
Centerforce	1	1.92%
DRM	2	3.85%
Fidanza	45	86.54%
Jeal Enterprises	1	1.92%
McLeod	3	5.77%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

08-07-2009	#21
WB9MCW Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: McHenry, Il. Posts: 6,607	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? Michael Alan Weiner (born March 31, 1942 in New York City), better known by his pseudonym Michael Savage, is an American conservative political satirist, radio host, author, and political commentator. He is the host of The Savage Nation, a nationally-syndicated talk-radio show that airs throughout the United States on Talk Radio Network. The Savage Nation has a very large audience, ranging from 8 to 10 million listeners on 350 stations across America, making his show the 3rd largest radio talk show in the country. He holds master's degrees in medical botany and medical anthropology and he earned a Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley, in nutritional ethnomedicine. As Michael Weiner, he has written books on herbal medicine and homeopathy. As Michael Savage, he has written four New York Times-bestselling political books. Michael Savage calls himself an "independent-minded individualist" and says that he "fits no stereotype." Savage criticizes "big government", homosexuality and activism on some issues, and liberalism, accuses the media of liberal bias, and champions environmentalism and animal rights. He has said that there are three aspects that define a society: borders, language, and culture. He founded the Paul Revere Society in 1996 with his son Russell to protest illegal immigration; he says the group's mission is to "bring together Americans who actively seek to take back our borders, our language, and our traditional culture from the liberal left corroding our great nation. If Savage owned a Hot Rod ( he sold his collector Caddy when he moved to Florida) no doubt he would have a Fidanza in it! __________________ http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...9mcw/SIG-2.jpg http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/wb9mcw/vcm.gif "The Budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome will become bankrupt. People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero, 55 BC " We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln Last edited by WB9MCW; 08-07-2009 at 01:44 PM.

08-07-2009	#23
rhipsher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Houston 90 Red ZR-1 Posts: 2,320	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? Very nicely done Bryan. What was really funny was when Charles Barkley thought he was going to out wit Savage in a radio debate. Savage made him look like an un educated dumb azz who knew nothing about the history of this nation. Barkley got slaughtered and at the end found himself starting to agree with savage on imigration policy ect. Last edited by rhipsher; 08-08-2009 at 12:05 AM.

08-24-2010	#24
rkreigh Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Alex VA Posts: 1,087	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? fidanza, and I've run both the sprung and unsprung and with the big Ol LPE 234 cams honestly it's just loud either way sounds more like a diesel than an LT5! but the lightweight TI rods, and flywheel help compensate for the bigger stroker crank to make the LSV 390 one free revving engine with the 4.10 gears. actually it's a bit too much gear, but as the drag boys say, never too much gear, just too little traction and too few RRRRRsssss blueprinting the tranny helps a bit, as does going to the shockproof oil, but the alum flywheels gonna rattle. from "not much" if you have a stock cammed lt5 and a tight clearance tranny to "diesel truck" like my car even at 950 rpms due to the big cams (which sound cool) the advantages of the lightweight flywheel are somewhat misunderstood. they help the car rev faster, but don't work as well getting it off the line due to the lower inertia, especially with stock gears. but with 430 pounds at the tire, with 4.10 gears, the alum flywheel works very well and I probably wouldn't go back as the fast revving and reduction in mass on the car overall are worth it I'm looking at the new SVT McLeod dual disk which I believe comes with a dedicated flywheel setup as I can "drive through" and slip the clutch a bit in 3rd and 4th gear when the car is really hooking up. I've been running around on the hoosier drag radials this summer and it's just way too much fun as you can now feel what 500 at the tire feels fully hooked up. __________________ 95 390 LPE ZR1 (505 rwhp) LSV = Lingenfelter Super Vette Twin Turbo 2003 Z06 (800 RWHP)

08-24-2010	#25
WB9MCW Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: McHenry, Il. Posts: 6,607	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? I bought the ceramic race clutch and an alum. flywheel from CC....other than the dreaded rut,,rut,,rut,,, "tranny-gears" rattle at idle and low rpm's under load...the new setup is unreal...rev to 3500 dump the clutch and hold on...all my friends are impressed to say the least...I am now testing the life span of half shaft u-joints...lol I kept the old flywheel (in fine shape) so I can revert her back if ever needed!!! "Ceramic" it is a beautiful thing............................. I WENT WITH THIS STAGE 3 KIT AND THE ALUM FLYWHEEL AND BOLT KIT >>> http://www.carolinaclutch.com/ShowItem/108823.aspx I really like my Fidanza and the Stage 3 race clutch. http://www.fidanza.com/ But the syncro rattle is there for sure with out the DM stock flywheel. __________________ http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...9mcw/SIG-2.jpg http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/wb9mcw/vcm.gif "The Budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome will become bankrupt. People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero, 55 BC " We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

08-24-2010	#26
Paul Workman Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Squires (near Ava MO in the Mark Twain N'tl Forest) - Missouri Posts: 6,493	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? Not that it matters, but is it actually synchros causing the rattle? I always assumed it was just the lash between the input gear and the carrier and then between the carrier gears and the respective gears on the main shaft - with a little bearing lash thrown in to boot...No? P. __________________ Good carz, good food, good friendz = the best of timez! 90 #1202 "FBI" top end ported & relieved Cam timing by "Pete the Greek" Sans secondaries Chip & dyno tuning by Haibeck Automotive SW headers, X-pipe, MF muffs Former Secretary, ZR-1 Net Registry

08-25-2010	#27
WB9MCW Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: McHenry, Il. Posts: 6,607	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? FROM THE ZR-1 LISTSERVE NET Subject: Re: ZF Gear Rattle >So I figure that that >is part of the problem in the ZF, the off gears actually vibrate on the >shaft when in another gear. I don't think that's the problem with the ZF--at least not the one that makes gear rattle. Gear rattle, at least the phrase as used by manual transmission engineers, refers to the noise made by the gear teeth "rocking" Obviously, gears must have some clearance between the gear teeth. This clearance provides the space necessary for gear rattle. the impact of the gear teeth makes a click noise. Obviously, this happens quite rapidly and the noise we hear is a rattle. Loud gear rattle is comparatively rare in passenger car manual transmissions, but is not unheard of. But, if you really want cases of loud gear rattle, just hang around heavy trucks. In fact, the dual-mass flywheel idea is common in diesels used in semi-truck-tractor. It used a Fuller, RoadRanger 15-speed, dual-counter shaft transmission. All it took was a few miles to warm up the transmission and you heard the true meaning of gear rattle. Now, why is gear rattle a particular problem with the ZF? The severity of gear rattle is affected by two major transmission design features 1) "center distance" which is the linear distance between the centerline of the input/main shafts and the counter shaft and 2) the mass of the gears in the transmission. In the case of the ZF S6-40, both these factors are large. The ZF has the longest center distance of any passenger car manual transmission and is larger than even some truck transmissions. It also has very massive gears compared to say an old Muncie four-speed or other passenger car manual you might have had apart. Combine all this and you have gear rattle from ZFs at idle. Replace the dual-mass with a standard flywheel and significantly increase the gear rattle. If you have an early ZF (89-93.5) they rattle more than the late ZFs. >For those of you into doing your own thing, the following cured 85% of >my gear rattle. 20-50 wt motor oil with a dash of slick Fifty manual >trans stuff. 20W50 engine oil for the factory-recommended 5W30 is an good strategy to reduce gear rattle. In fact, if you put 80W140 gear oil in the ZF, you'd probably have no gear rattle at all. The problem with use of high-viscosity lubricants in the ZF is increased parasitic loss, degraded shift feel and, in some cases, degraded the parasitic loss and the shift effort, we'd find it degraded compared to a transmission in similar condition but lubricated with a low-vis engine oil or gear lubricant. There is a particular Red Line product that is a solution along these lines, however, but it is not approved by wizards at ZF and not even suggested for street use by Red Line Oil. Nevertheless, it seems to work. "Superlight ShockProof" were developed mainly for road race and stock car use. Rumor has it that Superlight is very popular for transmissions in Winston Cup qualifying. Again, let me stress: this is not a discussion for those who believe the only lubricant you can put in a ZF is either the GM 5W30 engine oil or the Castrol 10W60 synthetic. I've used Light Shockproof in both my ZFs and the five-speed transaxle in my daily driver for a number of years. There have been no failures, spectrographic oil analysis has never indicated a problem and shift feel is as good or better than the same transmissions lubricated with Red Line MTL. The only negative I've experienced with Light Shockproof is cold with the exception of the oil analysis, this is somewhat anecdotal information. Sometime next year, I plan to have the ZF in my ZR-1 torn down and then I'll see what wear levels are present in a transmission that has had the GM factory fill lubricant in it only its first few thousand miles. Maybe I'll do both my ZFs. The other one has never had a ZF-approved lubricant in it. ======================= __________________ http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...9mcw/SIG-2.jpg http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o128/wb9mcw/vcm.gif "The Budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome will become bankrupt. People must again learn to work instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero, 55 BC " We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

11-30-2010	#28
Bob G Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Huntley IL Posts: 170	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? Ram 9.5 Dual disc ,Awaiting the first one for the LT5

02-20-2020	#29
Karl Join Date: May 2013 Location: Chicago Posts: 980	Re: Which aftermarket Flywheel do you have? I have none of the above! SPEC SC66A-2 Aluminum flywheel. 14lbs. __________________ 1993 ZR-1 #211 Yellow On Beige Beast #2 1992 ZR-1 #427 Black On Black Sold 1985 L98 Blue On Blue Sold Last edited by Karl; 02-20-2020 at 07:12 PM.