Serious Concerns Over Parts Availability

[jss06c6]

Originally Posted by KJL

I know where the ECM and ignition modules live but what is the CDM?

Controls most of your dash functions and systems. The ECM communicates through a serial buss with the CDM...

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[jss06c6]

Oh, and it's literally buried behind the dash!

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[spork2367]

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

....You're working yourself up needlessly!

I disagree. There are plenty of parts that people casually ignore. Take a relatively pedestrian hit to the rear bumper cover and quarter panel and the insurance company will total your car. I know, I own one that met that very demise. I restored it, but it was at a salvage yard to be parted out. And that was 5 years ago.

Not only that, but people are less and less willing to part with their spares. 5 years ago pretty much anything could be had for a semi reasonable price. Today there are things that are genuinely hard to find.

A member on here waited for several weeks for someone to offer up an ignition module. I eventually did. But I know there are dozens out there. People's generosity with spares may be running out.

A couple years ago fuel pump assemblies were available on rockauto. Now there are like two places with them and not many left.

What happens if you destroy a rear wheel?...There are a pile of parts that I'm not going to list that will be difficult or impossible to find for a reasonable price in the near future.

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

When it comes to the Achilles Heel aka the DIS module, we all share your concern; the ECM - not so much as they are available, and just in the past week(s) Marc Haibeck is starting to referbish the ECMs.

Jerry's Gaskets is progressing toward completion of that DIS module, and we all are on the edge of our seats, far as monitoring progress. But, then again, MegaSquirt has developed an ignition system that piggy-backs on the stock GM system (as I understand it).

Note: Fortunately, the DIS module is very robust and NOT a common mode failure item. However, HEAT is always an issue, far as electronics longivity is concerned. One of the advantages of removing the coolant circulating through the TB is the considerable reduction of heat transferred to that DIS module - at least while the motor is running.

I'm reminded of a Ford Model "T" car club I read about. I came across it while reading a post on the CF FORUM (IIRC) which was dealing with this very subject. The OP was concerned about parts for his early C4 and expressing some panic (if that is the right word) over locating parts. The responder with the model T assured him that through his club and the ability of many to fabricate parts otherwise unavailable, that the concern was largely mitigated.

And SO, I believe, it is the case with our cars as well. Far as I know, there aren't many - IF ANY - cars that are parked for lack of parts OR a reasonable solution to work around. And, thank Lotus and Mercury Marine for building such a robust "bullet-proof" motor that doesn't fail often.

ECM's have been refurbished for years by several different groups with varying success. There are some that simply can't be saved. The megasquirt isn't even released to the public. You can call and order one and it will set you back 2800 bucks. And calling it plug and play is misleading. You can plug it in, and it will likely start your engine and run like crap. I know, I have one. So plan on 3800 minimum to buy one and have your car tuned on a chassis dyno. And lose dash functionality. (hopefully fixed in the future)

Saying there are very few failures of a DIS or ECM is misleading with the huge number of low mileage cars. As people start turning more of these into drivers, there will certainly be more failures. We assume they are robust, but the sample size of high mileage cars is small.

The comparison to the model T is weak at best. The car has like 10 freaking wires and tolerances that could be held with a hand drill and file.

Originally Posted by jss06c6

Like it or not, we've got a fairly complicated engine design with early vintage computer controls. These engines are a testament to reliability from a mechanical perspective, but we still face a death blow from ECM, CCM and Ignition Module failure and obsolescence.

Mercury Marine's SB4 is a good replacement, but again, not built to talk to the CCM..

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You could buy another ZR-1 cheaper than the SB4.



It's not just the availability of parts, but the cost. If you have a clean driver with 50k+ miles you have a 20k dollar car. Are you going to spend 25% of the value of the car to repair it more than once?



Fuel injectors: (which will almost all need replaced at some point) 700+

engine rebuild (shouldn't be needed, but happens): non OEM cost, probably 5000 parts and labor, bare minimum. OEM not available. (some used low mileage parts)

DIS: Currently 1500-2500. I am willing to bet Jerry's will be in that neighborhood due to the huge investment and manufacturing cost needed to reproduce it.

ECM: 1500 used. 3800 for a megaquirt to be up and running.


Rear quarter panel bumper cover impact: totaled Probably 4000 out of pocket if it isn't severe.

Catastrophic transmission failure: 2500+ for a used transmission. More for a good rebuild/blueprinting.

Now have any two of those things go wrong...People say "drive it and enjoy it." Sure. But be prepared to have it be worth virtually nothing should something break severely. Most aren't going to spend 5-8k on a 15-20k car. And once you've cobbled half you car back together with non OEM parts, how much value is it really going to retain?

[KJL]

No doubt designed by the same engineer that decided the fuse for the cigarette lighter should be in the hidden fuse block under the passenger side dash.

[TX '90 ZR1]

My Goodness!! Why all the angst (a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one)?
One would think that these cars mysteriously appeared from an unknown, other worldly source and are beyond what we mere mortal humans can comprehend.
It's just a freaking car, albeit a special one.
Enjoy your car. If it breaks, I bet someone can figure out how to fix it.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by TX '90 ZR1

My Goodness!! Why all the angst (a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one)?
One would think that these cars mysteriously appeared from an unknown, other worldly source and are beyond what we mere mortal humans can comprehend.
It's just a freaking car, albeit a special one.
Enjoy your car. If it breaks, I bet someone can figure out how to fix it.

Posts like this are 100% worthless. Sorry, but it's just feel good fluff that doesn't address the OP's concern at all. We all enjoy these cars, that's why we own them. The angst is over the fact that the car is complex, and has difficult to find and/or expensive replacement parts that may someday make the car cost prohibitive to own. There are some parts that will never be remade or have a replacement.

Could you hammer a piece of sheet metal into a rear bumper cover? Sure. Would you want to drive around with it? No.

Could you drop in an LS? Absolutely. Would it still be a special car...no.

Despite what a huge number of people claim, they are hoping to get more out of these cars than they spent. So the angst for them is over the reality that they may not. And the even worse reality that they could end up with a car that is cost prohibitive to fix at all.

[TX '90 ZR1]

I tend to browse and read most of the current posts on this forum. There are some I do not agree with, and others that I do. A large percentage contain some knowledge that is valuable if the particular issue being addressed was encountered.
Each and every post has some value. If not knowledge gained on a technical level, on the level of observing different perspectives about the subject at hand.

[KJL]

I know I mentioned money above but we all know it is more than that. We own these cars because they strike a cord within us. My biggest fear is someday these wonderful cars will go the way other some far less impactful cars have gone way before their time. As a ZR1 community should we not help those few who are trying to find solutions and alternatives to prevent this? I would be the first in line to be help fund R&D and/or product development to this end.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by KJL

I know I mentioned money above but we all know it is more than that. We own these cars because they strike a cord within us. My biggest fear is someday these wonderful cars will go the way other some far less impactful cars have gone way before their time. As a ZR1 community should we not help those few who are trying to find solutions and alternatives to prevent this? I would be the first in line to be help fund R&D and/or product development to this end.

Money isn't going to be an issue for everyone. But it will be for some. Whether it's that they can't afford a very expensive replacement part, or whether they can't justify spending 25% of the value of a vehicle to repair it. It's great that a guy like Jerry is willing to use profits from some items to invest into other projects that are less profitable, and or invest his own money. There are things however that will never be replicated unless some incredibly wealthy individual decides he loves ZR-1s and money is no object.

Originally Posted by Dynomite

100% concur and a great summary of the issue (actually non issue)


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Except it is an issue. When an individual on here posted that he needed an ignition module I didn't see you or anyone else pony one up. I sold that individual my one spare unit.

These conversations go the same way every time. Someone posts a musing or question and is seeking facts to support or dispel their musing or answer their question.

The conversation starts with people trying to present the facts as they know them. Then slowly gets jaded by individuals perceptions (the facts through their view of the situation). Then it ultimately declines to pure opinion.

How these threads go:

Question: "Are there going to be enough parts to support these cars into the future?"

Attempt at presenting the facts: "There are definitely some hard to find parts that are only going to get harder to find."

Perception based conjecture and wishful thinking: "There are lots of parts, great people to help, and where there's a will there's a way."

Pure opinion irrelevant to original question: "These cars are the best and we love them no matter what...it's just about smiles per gallon."


There are lots of people whose only perspective on these cars is what they read on this forum and the other forum. Their knowledge of spare parts begins and ends with the for sale section on here and Jerry's gaskets.

On a weekly basis I watch this forum, the other forum, ebay, craigslist, other auction sites, salvage auctions, parts warehouse websites, jerry's, and kurt's.

I doubt there are very many people on here with a better understanding of the parts market than myself. I know I'm not the only one, but there aren't a lot.

If you haven't been watching all those sites, at least once a month, for several years, you really have no idea how the parts market has changed. If your someone who only watches Jerry's site, you'd see him adding items and have the perception that the parts market has gotten better, but you don't see the dozens of items that were commonly available other places that aren't anymore, or the items that have quietly disappeared from his site.

Time will ultimately tell, and maybe people will choose to sell their hoards at some point and the market will be flooded with spare parts. But as it stands now there are parts that will become unavailable in the next couple years that are crucial to these cars.

My view may come across as pessimistic, but unfortunately it's more realistic.

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by TX '90 ZR1

My Goodness!! Why all the angst (a feeling of deep anxiety or dread, typically an unfocused one)?
One would think that these cars mysteriously appeared from an unknown, other worldly source and are beyond what we mere mortal humans can comprehend.
It's just a freaking car, albeit a special one.
Enjoy your car. If it breaks, I bet someone can figure out how to fix it.

Concur 100% as before...…….. and after the dissertation

Oh.....and guys and gals.....get yourself a NEW Hood Support Gas Cylinder as the Stock Hood Support Gas Cylinder looses gas pressure in its old age. A New Hood Support Gas Cylinder will actually lift the hood back to the top if you lower the hood 6 inches.
Ecklers Corvette Hood Support with New Outer Sleeve