Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe - Page 2 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

ghlkal · 07-18-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fully Vetted

While I've done it in other cars I've always found the C4 foot well a little tight for this maneuver.

I find that I have to wear my Piloti's when driving the Z. If I wear "regular" shoes, I'm hitting all the wrong pedals

I'm no expert at heel and toe, but this thread has reminded me there's no reason I can't practice it when driving around.

efnfast · 07-19-2016

I've tried, and the gas and brake are so far apart, I don't know how I could twist my foot around to be on both pedals at the same time.

BigJohn · 07-19-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by efnfast

I've tried, and the gas and brake are so far apart, I don't know how I could twist my foot around to be on both pedals at the same time.

Twist your leg not your foot!

Tripler · 07-19-2016

Great responses guys . As a few have mentioned it is not exactly toe/heel or heel/toe . You are rolling the right side of your foot onto the gas pedal and in the C4 , it's a super pain with the wrong shoes but much easier with the correct footwear . Also your right foot will not be flat on the brake pedal . It will be on either the side or the top corner of the brake pedal . That positioning is why I stated that you practice this with lots of room in front of and around you . If your foot slides off that brake pedal while you are only gracing the edge of the brake pedal with your foot , then things can go wrong real quick when your foot lands on the gas pedal . Trust me . This will happen your first few tries and it will be friggin frustrating but keep at it . Don't give up .
Here is another trick I learned with the C4 . If as some of you have stated that your foot size is verging on a pro basketball players then you may be able to do this . My shoe size is only 10 but I have flat feet so they are kind of wide .
Put your heel on the break pedal or center of your foot instead of your regular way of applying which would probably be your toes . Then twist the top of your foot to the right and you will feel the lever that is the gas pedal . It will not be the gas pedal but your toes will be feeling the plastic lever that holds the gas pedal . You can actually blip the throttle with this method . Be gentle tho as they have been known to break . Plastic . Really GM !
Try it in your driveway engine running or off , hand break on , and do as I just stated and see if you can maneuver your right foot to do the breaking and blip of the throttle . I did it with mine and it will feel really weird not having your foot on that little rubber gas pedal but you can apply throttle by just pushing the plastic lever with your toes . Give it a shot and let me know how it went . I will take some stills and post them here tonight so you can see what I am doing and hopefully you guys with basketball feet can succeed in a T/H maneuver . Again try this in the driveway first then in a clear spot roadway and I also highly recommend that your hand break functions perfectly . You never know when your gonna need it but when you do need it , it will save your butt ... Trust me on that .
Also if you guys really want to see a vehicle that is difficult to T/H in with large feet is a Formula Car . Non synchronize transmissions , H pattern super short shifts and absolutely no room between the pedals plus your shoulders are being squeezed inward against the fuselage . Good thing about it is the pedals are setup up for easy T/H , just very tight quarters . The steering wheel is ridiculously small and you sit with your butt a few inches off the road . But what a hell of a lot of fun and I was lucky enough to drive one on a rainy day . Now that is exciting ,,, wow ... I never raced open wheel as it really never interested me . I prefer the feel of a chunk of metal around me or fiberglass in the Z's case .
My goal as a driver was to eventually race in a Group C car such as Derek Bell drove but I never made it that far up the ladder . But you need lots of money and lots of sponsors and they were very hard to find in Canada .
Good luck with your T/H ...

Mike

Bob Eyres · 07-19-2016

I've tried it a few times, to no great success. But it would be fun to get some expert instruction. Sign me up for next year at BG

I used most of my misspent youth and reflexes trying to get the most out of a four speed at the drag strip. Which is an art in itself.

The new rev-matching feature on Corvettes allows untalented pedal dancers like most of us to mimic the smooth action of heel & toe. Tripler, have you tried one of those?
My wife's 335i has the Tiptronic auto that does a similar blip. Fun to play with.

Tripler · 07-19-2016

Never drove the new cars but it amazes me the technology installed in every day cars which come initially from the race track and now obviously on high end performance vehicles . Cool ...
Drag racing is an art indeed . Getting your launch and shift points done correctly and consistently must be a pig to accomplish ...

I have no experience with drag racing ...

RussMcB · 07-19-2016

Thanks a lot, Mike. I should be working, but this thread has provoked fun thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripler

<snip> Non synchronize transmissions ...

Interestingly, this actually makes matching the RPM's and getting into the next gear surprisingly easy. In fact, with the racing transaxles in most formula cars the clutch is only used on pit road, and not for up or downshifting. I'm sure many of you are motorcycle riders and don't use the clutch for upshifts. It just "snicks" into gear. A great feeling.

Similar to Heel/Toe, Left Foot Braking (LFB) is popular in formula cars (since the left foot isn't needed for clutching on track). It also takes a bit getting used to, but helps for a smoother transition from braking to accelerating, and the right foot is used for gas only (no Heel/Toe). I couldn't LFB in my last car because the steering column was in the way.

Racing formula cars is (I guess) like heroin. SO different than door slammers (and karts, too, because of the suspension). I can still remember in my first race car watching the front tire, only a couple of feet away, moving with the curbing.

Tripler · 07-19-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by RussMcB

Thanks a lot, Mike. I should be working, but this thread has provoked fun thoughts.Interestingly, this actually makes matching the RPM's and getting into the next gear surprisingly easy. In fact, with the racing transaxles in most formula cars the clutch is only used on pit road, and not for up or downshifting. I'm sure many of you are motorcycle riders and don't use the clutch for upshifts. It just "snicks" into gear. A great feeling.

Similar to Heel/Toe, Left Foot Braking (LFB) is popular in formula cars (since the left foot isn't needed for clutching on track). It also takes a bit getting used to, but helps for a smoother transition from braking to accelerating, and the right foot is used for gas only (no Heel/Toe). I couldn't LFB in my last car because the steering column was in the way.

Racing formula cars is (I guess) like heroin. SO different than door slammers (and karts, too, because of the suspension). I can still remember in my first race car watching the front tire, only a couple of feet away, moving with the curbing.

Awesome Russ !. So you raced those open wheel thingys . I agree they are a completely different animal than any thing you will ever experience but I prefer that closed in feeling . Question . From what I remember in the open wheel Formula Ford I drove , we still toe heeled on down shifts . I did depress the clutch on upshifts lifting throttle slightly . Is that how it is done ? I know on my bike I rarely if ever use the clutch for upshifts put I blip the throttle and use the clutch for downshifts, tho occasionally I can downshift without the clutch ...You have to be careful and have no load on the engine or the drive train .

Thanks

Mystic ZR-1 · 07-19-2016

Left foot braking...
Done that for years in all automatics I've ever driven.
When I was 16 or so, I read some place that Jim Hall
drove the Chapparal that way.
Good enough for Jim Hall? Good enough for me!
Two feet, two pedals...
Don't know what a Chapparal is? (youngster...)
Google it...

Tripler · 07-19-2016

Not a fan of left foot braking on the street but it works like a charm on the track when you get a bit of under steer in a corner ...

07-19-2016	#12
efnfast Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Dunbarton NH Posts: 7,540	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe I've tried, and the gas and brake are so far apart, I don't know how I could twist my foot around to be on both pedals at the same time.

07-19-2016	#14
Tripler Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 713	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe Great responses guys . As a few have mentioned it is not exactly toe/heel or heel/toe . You are rolling the right side of your foot onto the gas pedal and in the C4 , it's a super pain with the wrong shoes but much easier with the correct footwear . Also your right foot will not be flat on the brake pedal . It will be on either the side or the top corner of the brake pedal . That positioning is why I stated that you practice this with lots of room in front of and around you . If your foot slides off that brake pedal while you are only gracing the edge of the brake pedal with your foot , then things can go wrong real quick when your foot lands on the gas pedal . Trust me . This will happen your first few tries and it will be friggin frustrating but keep at it . Don't give up . Here is another trick I learned with the C4 . If as some of you have stated that your foot size is verging on a pro basketball players then you may be able to do this . My shoe size is only 10 but I have flat feet so they are kind of wide . Put your heel on the break pedal or center of your foot instead of your regular way of applying which would probably be your toes . Then twist the top of your foot to the right and you will feel the lever that is the gas pedal . It will not be the gas pedal but your toes will be feeling the plastic lever that holds the gas pedal . You can actually blip the throttle with this method . Be gentle tho as they have been known to break . Plastic . Really GM ! Try it in your driveway engine running or off , hand break on , and do as I just stated and see if you can maneuver your right foot to do the breaking and blip of the throttle . I did it with mine and it will feel really weird not having your foot on that little rubber gas pedal but you can apply throttle by just pushing the plastic lever with your toes . Give it a shot and let me know how it went . I will take some stills and post them here tonight so you can see what I am doing and hopefully you guys with basketball feet can succeed in a T/H maneuver . Again try this in the driveway first then in a clear spot roadway and I also highly recommend that your hand break functions perfectly . You never know when your gonna need it but when you do need it , it will save your butt ... Trust me on that . Also if you guys really want to see a vehicle that is difficult to T/H in with large feet is a Formula Car . Non synchronize transmissions , H pattern super short shifts and absolutely no room between the pedals plus your shoulders are being squeezed inward against the fuselage . Good thing about it is the pedals are setup up for easy T/H , just very tight quarters . The steering wheel is ridiculously small and you sit with your butt a few inches off the road . But what a hell of a lot of fun and I was lucky enough to drive one on a rainy day . Now that is exciting ,,, wow ... I never raced open wheel as it really never interested me . I prefer the feel of a chunk of metal around me or fiberglass in the Z's case . My goal as a driver was to eventually race in a Group C car such as Derek Bell drove but I never made it that far up the ladder . But you need lots of money and lots of sponsors and they were very hard to find in Canada . Good luck with your T/H ... Mike Last edited by Tripler; 07-19-2016 at 09:19 AM.

07-19-2016	#15
Bob Eyres Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Jupiter, Fl. Posts: 813	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe I've tried it a few times, to no great success. But it would be fun to get some expert instruction. Sign me up for next year at BG I used most of my misspent youth and reflexes trying to get the most out of a four speed at the drag strip. Which is an art in itself. The new rev-matching feature on Corvettes allows untalented pedal dancers like most of us to mimic the smooth action of heel & toe. Tripler, have you tried one of those? My wife's 335i has the Tiptronic auto that does a similar blip. Fun to play with.

07-19-2016	#16
Tripler Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 713	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe Never drove the new cars but it amazes me the technology installed in every day cars which come initially from the race track and now obviously on high end performance vehicles . Cool ... Drag racing is an art indeed . Getting your launch and shift points done correctly and consistently must be a pig to accomplish ... I have no experience with drag racing ...

07-19-2016	#19
Mystic ZR-1 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mystic CT Posts: 2,625	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe Left foot braking... Done that for years in all automatics I've ever driven. When I was 16 or so, I read some place that Jim Hall drove the Chapparal that way. Good enough for Jim Hall? Good enough for me! Two feet, two pedals... Don't know what a Chapparal is? (youngster...) Google it... Last edited by Mystic ZR-1; 07-19-2016 at 07:20 PM. Reason: ...

07-19-2016	#20
Tripler Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 713	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe Not a fan of left foot braking on the street but it works like a charm on the track when you get a bit of under steer in a corner ...