Allright need some starting help please! - Page 2 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

sammy · 03-15-2012

if he doesnt push in the clutch peddle it wont turn over

Pete · 03-15-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by oricale

hey jerry,..I made an order,..I thought I got everything I needed,..But I guess I missed plenum gaskets?????

I will check the connections tomorrow!

Anything else it could be?

Heres what I will look at:

all four connections under the plenum
pins
cam sensor
confirm which plug goes to which spot (forward under the plenum) is which because they swapped

firing order(drivers 2-4-6-8 passenger:1-3-5-7 )..correct??

Six connectors
Check the coil pack 2 connectors back of the coil packs sometimes the lock pins on the connectors do not lock very good and when fumbling with the ignition module plugs they could pull off.

Pete

oricale · 03-15-2012

Yeah, its turning over just fine,..just not firing,...I will check the fuses for the guages as well as the fuses for the injectors just in case...

ALSO:

I have removed the secondaries all together just want to make sure what I HAVE to leave in there!!!

( I have pulled thee vaccume canister and all the smog crap(have headers now

Let me know

tomtom72 · 03-15-2012

this is just a shot in the dark, a fwiw or a wild guess! Even with the main DIS connector from the ECM plugged in upside down ( yes it will go on, but will bend one pin...ask me how I know this! ). The car will actually start & run. It runs on the limp home ignition system which is managed by the ESC ( electronic spark control ) box mounted on the blower motor case at the passenger side just next to the washer bottle. Make sure that box has it's connector plugged in because that box is actually what starts our motors...or at least that's how my lame brain reads the ignition system discussion in the FSM.

If the DIS box connector gets a bent pin it will set a code and go back to the ESC box for ignition control & function. I do think if the ESC box craps out or is unplugged the car will not start, but the starter will turn. I'd check the gauges fuse first though! That would be a better bet IMHO than the wild guess that I just put forth.

You are sure that all the coil rack and DIS box connectors are plugged in & seated? You put the insulators under the coils' plugs?
You are sure the the cam sensor and crank sensor are plugged in?
All the ECM main plugs are in right?
I would do a KOEO grounding on the ALDL to see if the SES light flashes anything but "12".

Okay that's all my senile brain can come up with.

Tom

Z51JEFF · 03-15-2012

The 2 connectors at the front of the controller cant be swapped,mixed up.Each has a tap to keep this from happening.A blown ABS fuse will also keep the car from starting also.

mike100 · 03-15-2012

If you take out the airbag fuse, you may also get a no start, but you get a 'SYS err' type of message to give you a clue that something is amiss.

This type of thing never seems to happen to me...When you have an O'scope and the TECH1 tool, Murphy doesn't visit very often. Unless you can find something obvious, you may need to break out the manual diagnostic menu tree and maybe get a logic probe or something simple to check for digital pulses.

oricale · 03-16-2012

Congratulations on having a oscilloscope!...all cam and crannk connections are on and correct, the under plenum connections are correct, all fuses are good except INJ 1 (replaced)..and I can't find the ABS fuse though..where is that???

Also would there be a relay that could affect this under the dash anywhere????

I am sure there is no spark because all the spark plugs have fuel on them..

Z51JEFF · 03-16-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by oricale

Congratulations on having a oscilloscope!...all cam and crannk connections are on and correct, the under plenum connections are correct, all fuses are good except INJ 1 (replaced)..and I can't find the ABS fuse though..where is that???

Also would there be a relay that could affect this under the dash anywhere????

I am sure there is no spark because all the spark plugs have fuel on them..

The airbag fuse is in the main fuse panel.

Paul Workman · 03-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike100

This type of thing never seems to happen to me...When you have an O'scope and the TECH1 tool, Murphy doesn't visit very often.

Dayam, Mike! Must be nice to have the O'scope too!

I'm gonna have to look into that leetle item, uh-huh! I have a Fluke 115 that will capture spikes and such, but the stuff you can learn from an O'scope - a good ol' analog one even, is priceless at times when certain problems are afoot that are eluding the capabilities of the most common shop stuff.

p.

mike100 · 03-17-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Workman

Dayam, Mike! Must be nice to have the O'scope too!

I'm gonna have to look into that leetle item, uh-huh! I have a Fluke 115 that will capture spikes and such, but the stuff you can learn from an O'scope - a good ol' analog one even, is priceless at times when certain problems are afoot that are eluding the capabilities of the most common shop stuff.

p.

It is amazing how much the CCM on these cars cause grief to the whole system. I'm still scratching my head over the time (after my steering column repair) when I forgot to put the airbag fuse back in that the engine would crank but not fire...

anything is possible, but the FSM books should guide you through every diagnostic.

The OP said his INJ1 fuse was toast...I would like to know if it popped again. Maybe the plenum or related bracketry has smashed a critical wire to ground.

03-15-2012	#11
sammy Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: back in lone pine Posts: 591	Re: Allright need some starting help please! if he doesnt push in the clutch peddle it wont turn over

03-15-2012	#13
oricale Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: STAFFORD VA, Posts: 576	Re: Allright need some starting help please! Yeah, its turning over just fine,..just not firing,...I will check the fuses for the guages as well as the fuses for the injectors just in case... ALSO: I have removed the secondaries all together just want to make sure what I HAVE to leave in there!!! ( I have pulled thee vaccume canister and all the smog crap(have headers now Let me know __________________ [B][I][COLOR=red]1990 ZR1[/COLOR][COLOR=black] [U]#00077 [COLOR=red]RED[/COLOR]/[COLOR=red]RED[/COLOR] (10Y022 PEP CAR) [/U][/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=red]1991 ZR1[/COLOR][COLOR=black] [U]#00517 ("Irene")[COLOR=red]WHITE[/COLOR]/[COLOR=red]RED-SOLD:cry:[/COLOR] [B][/B] [/U][/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=red]1992 ZR1[/COLOR][COLOR=black] [U]#00445("The Revenant")[COLOR=red][COLOR="Black"]BLACK [/COLOR][/COLOR]/[COLOR=red]RED(2016 T.O.D!) [/COLOR] [/U][/COLOR][/I][/B] [B][I][COLOR=red]2009 [COLOR=red]Z06!![COLOR=black]BLK/BLK rare Linen interior[/COLOR] 707HP!![/COLOR] [/COLOR][/I][/B] [B][I][COLOR=red]2006[/COLOR] BLK/BLK Z51 (Just SICK FAST!)SOLD)[/I][/B] [B][I]1996 BLK/BLK LT4 Grnsprt(sold...Twice!)[/I][/B] [B][I]1991 RED/REDL98(Fell off the shipping truck:([/I][/B] [B][I]1980 BLK/RED L82(Sold)[/I][/B] [B][I][B][I]1990[/I][/B] RED/BLK(sold.....In Japan)[/I][/B] [I][COLOR=black][B][I]2006[/I][/B][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=red]Mustang GT[/COLOR] ([B][I]mach 1[/I][/B])[B](sold)[/B] [COLOR=black][B][I]1969[/I][/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Mach[/COLOR] [B][I]1(sold in Japan)[/I][/B] [COLOR=black][B][I]1969[/I][/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Mach[/COLOR] [B][I]1#2(sold)[/I][/B] [B][I]WAZOO Member...[/I][/B] [url]www.evolution-motorsport.com[/url] facebook/evolutionmotorsportengineering Your Local [url]www.Amsoil.com[/url] dealer/user.. Victory Loves Preparation

03-15-2012	#14
tomtom72 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jacksonville, FL USA Posts: 4,645	Re: Allright need some starting help please! this is just a shot in the dark, a fwiw or a wild guess! Even with the main DIS connector from the ECM plugged in upside down ( yes it will go on, but will bend one pin...ask me how I know this! ). The car will actually start & run. It runs on the limp home ignition system which is managed by the ESC ( electronic spark control ) box mounted on the blower motor case at the passenger side just next to the washer bottle. Make sure that box has it's connector plugged in because that box is actually what starts our motors...or at least that's how my lame brain reads the ignition system discussion in the FSM. If the DIS box connector gets a bent pin it will set a code and go back to the ESC box for ignition control & function. I do think if the ESC box craps out or is unplugged the car will not start, but the starter will turn. I'd check the gauges fuse first though! That would be a better bet IMHO than the wild guess that I just put forth. You are sure that all the coil rack and DIS box connectors are plugged in & seated? You put the insulators under the coils' plugs? You are sure the the cam sensor and crank sensor are plugged in? All the ECM main plugs are in right? I would do a KOEO grounding on the ALDL to see if the SES light flashes anything but "12". Okay that's all my senile brain can come up with. Tom __________________ 1990 ZR-1, Black/grey, #2233, stock. ZR-1 Net Reg Founding Member #316 & NCM member

03-15-2012	#15
Z51JEFF Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Fremont,Ca Posts: 3,054	Re: Allright need some starting help please! The 2 connectors at the front of the controller cant be swapped,mixed up.Each has a tap to keep this from happening.A blown ABS fuse will also keep the car from starting also.

03-15-2012	#16
mike100 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: San Marcos CA Posts: 1,802	Re: Allright need some starting help please! If you take out the airbag fuse, you may also get a no start, but you get a 'SYS err' type of message to give you a clue that something is amiss. This type of thing never seems to happen to me...When you have an O'scope and the TECH1 tool, Murphy doesn't visit very often. Unless you can find something obvious, you may need to break out the manual diagnostic menu tree and maybe get a logic probe or something simple to check for digital pulses.

03-16-2012	#17
oricale Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: STAFFORD VA, Posts: 576	Re: Allright need some starting help please! Congratulations on having a oscilloscope!...all cam and crannk connections are on and correct, the under plenum connections are correct, all fuses are good except INJ 1 (replaced)..and I can't find the ABS fuse though..where is that??? Also would there be a relay that could affect this under the dash anywhere???? I am sure there is no spark because all the spark plugs have fuel on them.. __________________ [B][I][COLOR=red]1990 ZR1[/COLOR][COLOR=black] [U]#00077 [COLOR=red]RED[/COLOR]/[COLOR=red]RED[/COLOR] (10Y022 PEP CAR) [/U][/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=red]1991 ZR1[/COLOR][COLOR=black] [U]#00517 ("Irene")[COLOR=red]WHITE[/COLOR]/[COLOR=red]RED-SOLD:cry:[/COLOR] [B][/B] [/U][/COLOR][/I][/B][B][I][COLOR=red]1992 ZR1[/COLOR][COLOR=black] [U]#00445("The Revenant")[COLOR=red][COLOR="Black"]BLACK [/COLOR][/COLOR]/[COLOR=red]RED(2016 T.O.D!) [/COLOR] [/U][/COLOR][/I][/B] [B][I][COLOR=red]2009 [COLOR=red]Z06!![COLOR=black]BLK/BLK rare Linen interior[/COLOR] 707HP!![/COLOR] [/COLOR][/I][/B] [B][I][COLOR=red]2006[/COLOR] BLK/BLK Z51 (Just SICK FAST!)SOLD)[/I][/B] [B][I]1996 BLK/BLK LT4 Grnsprt(sold...Twice!)[/I][/B] [B][I]1991 RED/REDL98(Fell off the shipping truck:([/I][/B] [B][I]1980 BLK/RED L82(Sold)[/I][/B] [B][I][B][I]1990[/I][/B] RED/BLK(sold.....In Japan)[/I][/B] [I][COLOR=black][B][I]2006[/I][/B][/COLOR][/I] [COLOR=red]Mustang GT[/COLOR] ([B][I]mach 1[/I][/B])[B](sold)[/B] [COLOR=black][B][I]1969[/I][/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Mach[/COLOR] [B][I]1(sold in Japan)[/I][/B] [COLOR=black][B][I]1969[/I][/B][/COLOR] [COLOR=red]Mach[/COLOR] [B][I]1#2(sold)[/I][/B] [B][I]WAZOO Member...[/I][/B] [url]www.evolution-motorsport.com[/url] facebook/evolutionmotorsportengineering Your Local [url]www.Amsoil.com[/url] dealer/user.. Victory Loves Preparation Last edited by oricale; 03-16-2012 at 07:24 PM.