Oil and ZDDP

[secondchance]

Thanks for taking this up with Marc.

[xlr8nflorida]

Originally Posted by secondchance

Thanks for taking this up with Marc.

Originally Posted by secondchance

Thanks for taking this up with Marc.

I wish Mobil had an oil that met the specs without additives. I didn't see the Turbo Mobil you mentioned on Mobil's site? Perhaps I overlooked it.

I believe Marc that Amsoil would be good in your motor. At the same time, I wonder if its better then Mobil 1 in other areas besides Zinc.

If you google alot, you find conflicting results on Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
I'm more inclined to stay with Mobil 1. They are factory fills for:

Corvette
Mercedes AMG
Mercedes SLR McLaren
Porsche
Aston Martin
Bentley

I think that says alot.

Who factory fills Amsoil? Also, the way they sell Amsoil is kind of odd to me?

I mean if its so great, there should be a better way to get it?

[bdw18_123]

Originally Posted by xlr8nflorida

I wish Mobil had an oil that met the specs without additives. I didn't see the Turbo Mobil you mentioned on Mobil's site? Perhaps I overlooked it.

I believe Marc that Amsoil would be good in your motor. At the same time, I wonder if its better then Mobil 1 in other areas besides Zinc.

If you google alot, you find conflicting results on Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
I'm more inclined to stay with Mobil 1. They are factory fills for:

Corvette
Mercedes AMG
Mercedes SLR McLaren
Porsche
Aston Martin
Bentley

I think that says alot.

Who factory fills Amsoil? Also, the way they sell Amsoil is kind of odd to me?

I mean if its so great, there should be a better way to get it?

I tend to agree. Why is it not sold in stores? Wouldn't they make more money with it easily accessible? I don't like having to order oil through the mail. Amsoil is expensive to begin with, then you have to add in shipping costs.

I'm not saying it's a bad oil, I'm sure it's really great stuff. It's just expensive and hard to get. I'll probably just use the gold-cap Mobil 1 full synthetic High mileage stuff in my Z, the ZDDP levels may not be fully up to spec, but I think it's close enough. It's better than the regular Mobil 1 full synth stuff anyway.

Plus, my ZR-1 already has a high mileage engine and it's no garage queen so I'm willing to risk it. I don't have the money right now to do any upgrades, I just want to get it drivable. I'm sure that my LT5 could easily get to 200K miles no problem, maybe more. So with 140K on the clock now, I have a good 60K miles left at least, maybe even another 100K.

Now that I don't have my '93 LT1 anymore, I'm finding it really sucks not having a 'vette to drive.

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by xlr8nflorida

I wish Mobil had an oil that met the specs without additives. I didn't see the Turbo Mobil you mentioned on Mobil's site? Perhaps I overlooked it.

I believe Marc that Amsoil would be good in your motor. At the same time, I wonder if its better then Mobil 1 in other areas besides Zinc.

If you google alot, you find conflicting results on Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
I'm more inclined to stay with Mobil 1. They are factory fills for:

Corvette
Mercedes AMG
Mercedes SLR McLaren
Porsche
Aston Martin
Bentley

I think that says alot.

Who factory fills Amsoil? Also, the way they sell Amsoil is kind of odd to me?

I mean if its so great, there should be a better way to get it?

Well, there is this outfit "Paradise Garage" that did testing on both Mobil 1 and Amsoil.
According to their test result, based on sample analysis, Amsoil 5W30 viscosity starts higher than Mobil 1 and continue to thicken.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html

This is another one of those situation where you make the best guess possible (after all all these companies could be buying the same base PAO stock and juicing it with their own additives - maybe even "Marvel Mystery Oil) and as long as nothing detrimental happens you figure you were right - "Right until proven wrong!"

In summary, it seems we have 3 options:
1. Use Amsoil AMO 10W40
2. Use Mobil 1 and spike with a dash(2oz) of ZDDPlus or Redline Supplement
3. Wait for Mobil 1 Turbo Blend

One thing I learned out of all this is 800 ppm phosphorus content may cause issue down the road!

Another interesting item is, according to sample analysis, they seem to find more metal particles in oil during the first 3,000 miles! According to these guys "This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119".

I wonder if this is just left over particles that did not drain showing up as soon a new oil is filled and suspended.

Should I be looking for 3,000 mile old Amsoil AMO 10W40 for the ultimate in engine protection???

[xlr8nflorida]

I've seen all those reports and then some - it gets tiring.

Not sure if you know this but Amsoil gets their base oil from Mobil 1.

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by xlr8nflorida

Not sure if you know this but Amsoil gets their base oil from Mobil 1.

Somehow I am not surprised.

The fact that Mobil 1 is used as factory fill for so many brand is indicative that they have wholeheartedly responded to needs of auto manufacturers, namely reformulate to help them meet longer warranty on catalytic converters per EPA demand.

I compared Mobil 1 and Amsoil test sample reading side by side at 5,000 miles namely because that is the mileage I change my oil. In general Mobil 1 seems to have higher metal particle (aluminum, chromium, iron, copper, etc...) which, I believe, are good indication of internal degradation. Phosphorus count starts with Amsoil being about 200 ppm higher and finishes at 5,000 mile with about 60 ppm more than Mobil. As for zinc. count, Amsoil starts at 1113 vs. Mobil at 819 and pretty much stays constant to 5,000 miles.

What is interesting is Moil 1 has "Molybdenum", another anti-metal wear agent where Amsoil has none. It seems Mobil 1, while reducing zinc and phosphorus, seems to have introduced Nolybdenum, another anti-wear agent, to offset their reduction of zinc and phosphorus.

Based on this comparison, and I am not a mechanical engineer but, Amsoil (at least comparing basic 5W30 wts) seems to result in less internal degradation that can be documented via oil analysis (at least in a
LS1 Camaro).

[xlr8nflorida]

Originally Posted by secondchance

Somehow I am not surprised.

The fact that Mobil 1 is used as factory fill for so many brand is indicative that they have wholeheartedly responded to needs of auto manufacturers, namely reformulate to help them meet longer warranty on catalytic converters per EPA demand.

I compared Mobil 1 and Amsoil test sample reading side by side at 5,000 miles namely because that is the mileage I change my oil. In general Mobil 1 seems to have higher metal particle (aluminum, chromium, iron, copper, etc...) which, I believe, are good indication of internal degradation. Phosphorus count starts with Amsoil being about 200 ppm higher and finishes at 5,000 mile with about 60 ppm more than Mobil. As for zinc. count, Amsoil starts at 1113 vs. Mobil at 819 and pretty much stays constant to 5,000 miles.

What is interesting is Moil 1 has "Molybdenum", another anti-metal wear agent where Amsoil has none. It seems Mobil 1, while reducing zinc and phosphorus, seems to have introduced Nolybdenum, another anti-wear agent, to offset their reduction of zinc and phosphorus.

Based on this comparison, and I am not a mechanical engineer but, Amsoil (at least comparing basic 5W30 wts) seems to result in less internal degradation that can be documented via oil analysis (at least in a
LS1 Camaro).

Did you do these through blackstone labs or did you pull this copy from the web?

[tomtom72]

This is just a fwiw doing the mail order route. Yesterday i went to my Amsoil account and placed my first motor oil order.

One case/4gallons = $180.00 round numbers w/shipping. Ordered 11/11/09, shipped via UPS same day as ordered, arrival date via UPS tracking 11/12/09 or 11/13/09. Shipped from a PA distribution location. I'm in NYS, near NYC.

That isn't the end of the world. Heck I hate going to COSTCO and waiting on the lines! Turn around time isn't too bad at all. You could decide to change your oil, order it and have it all in the same week with a little planning. I figure my next order will be a case of qts, then I have inventory for a few changes on hand. I guess I'm saying that going with the Amsoil is doable and it isn't that much of a logistical pia.


Tom

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by xlr8nflorida

Did you do these through blackstone labs or did you pull this copy from the web?

I used analysis report done by Paradise Garage on the web. I believe they had Blackstone do the testing. I compared their testing of Mobil 1, 5W30 and Amsoil, 5W30, both at 5,000 miles.
As for the calculation, I used PPM count Crower is claiming when they are comparing ZDDPlus to GM EOS and Torco Zep. This calculation was based on 4oz added to 5 qts. I prorated and came up with a figure when added to 8.5 qts.

[secondchance]

Originally Posted by tomtom72

This is just a fwiw doing the mail order route. Yesterday i went to my Amsoil account and placed my first motor oil order.

One case/4gallons = $180.00 round numbers w/shipping. Ordered 11/11/09, shipped via UPS same day as ordered, arrival date via UPS tracking 11/12/09 or 11/13/09. Shipped from a PA distribution location. I'm in NYS, near NYC.

That isn't the end of the world. Heck I hate going to COSTCO and waiting on the lines! Turn around time isn't too bad at all. You could decide to change your oil, order it and have it all in the same week with a little planning. I figure my next order will be a case of qts, then I have inventory for a few changes on hand. I guess I'm saying that going with the Amsoil is doable and it isn't that much of a logistical pia.


Tom

I hear you. Call me lazy but I just dread the thought of mail order, waiting, etc... I hate Costco too but my wife runs out there at least once every 2 weeks. Last tine I went, I memorized the aisle #, 123 for Leesburg store, so I can tell her where to find Mobil 1, 5W30.
Also, I know it's it's only about $40 difference including shipping but I find myself getting cheap as I am getting older.
If i take the Mobil plus ZDDPlus route, it's $25 for 3 bottles good for 6 oil changes - 2 years of driving minimum!