Buzzing noises from glove box - Page 2 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

QB93Z · 10-07-2017

That is good information. When you were cranking this time, did the lights on the cluster and the dash stay on?

Jim

karlaw · 10-07-2017

Not sure becoz when using the jumper wire, I am standing by front tire.

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karlaw · 10-07-2017

Got no helper until next week, but I will try to rig up a mirror or something here now

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QB93Z · 10-07-2017

OK, I understand.

Jim

karlaw · 10-08-2017

So I checked, the dash lights and dic lights stay on while cranking.

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QB93Z · 10-08-2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by karlaw

So I checked, the dash lights and dic lights stay on while cranking.

OK. Now we can diagnose the cranking circuit. If you have gotten Section 8A of the Service Manual (Book 2) I am looking at page 8A-30-4 Chart # 1.

Do you have a 12 vdc test light? If not I suggest getting one at a auto parts store (sometimes called a Test Probe)

Connect the test light from the negative terminal of the battery to the connector you have on the "purple wire" which is the starter solenoid.

Turn the ignition key to START. Did the test light come on?

I am predicting the answer is no since you are using a jumper to crank the engine.

So, the next step is to test for voltage at the Clutch Safety Switch and then at the Starter Interrupt Relay. These items are under the drivers side hush panel, near where the VATS unit is hooked up. Do you know how to identify specific terminals on switches and relays?

Jim

karlaw · 10-08-2017

Won't have the section 8A booklet until next Tuesday nite.
Test light connected from Negative to Purple wire, key on Start position, nothing , no power to test light.
4 month old battery when charged up using a good 40 amp charger for 3 hrs, then sitting for 10 hours, never seems to get above 11.9 volts, unless charger is turned back on, then I get the 13.2 volts.
I tested both sides of the connector as shown in photo I texted. No power . Not sure what that connector does. Haven't found the starter interrupt yet, having trouble getting my head under the dash,...going to get a hand held mirror to help see up there.
Not sure how to identify specific terminals....
I have attempted to try to get ohm readings on fuel injectors with plenum in place. I pull #1 inj fuse, then plug a lead wire from front half of fuse holder to a tester lead, then take other lead onto a paper clip and probe the pin sockets on the left hand ECM plug. I tried with battery disconnected .... Can't get anything to read.....I followed a description from Marc H, no readings. I wonder if I am not getting the right place to hook the grounding side in the fuse box ?

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QB93Z · 10-09-2017

Please verify your readings from yesterday evening. Check for 12 vdc on the yellow wire that goes to the two wire connector in the top photo. The connector has two wires, yellow with a black stripe and purple. With the key in START, there should be 12 vdc on the yellow wire.

If you still get no voltage at the yellow wire, then the problem is in the Starter Enable Relay circuit or the Ignition Switch itself.

I think that the "other wire" with orange/white wire is for the under dash light so it should have 12 vdc when a door is open.

The Starter Enable Relay is turned on by the Central Control Module (CCM). The CCM gets a signal from the VATS Module and from the Theft Deterrent System.

These components are interconnected. The service manual says:

page 6E3-A-68: If the CCM does not send the correct VATS/TDS signal to the ECM, the ECM will not pulse the injectors and the car will not start

page 9D-2: The Starter Interrupt Relay: If VATS is not satisfied, the CCM will Reset (not allow start) for 2-4 minutes (crank and fuel disabled) and will not permit starting.

This is why the car will crank if you use the purple wire jumper, but it won't continue to run because the ECM and CCM are blocking the signal to the Fuel Enable Relay.

QB93Z · 10-09-2017

Do you know the history of this ZR-1? Did it ever run for you? Who installed the VATS interrogator? Have the CCM, ECM, Ignition Switch, VATS module, the Clutch Safety Switch, the Fuel Enable Relay, or the Starter Interrupt Relay been replaced?

Do you know how to use the Diagnostic Connector to check for Trouble Codes? What we need to do now is try to put everything back together and then follow the trouble shooting listed in the service manual.

I will be glad to try to help you do that.

By the way, what is you name and where do you live?

Jim

karlaw · 10-17-2017

Hi Jim. My name is Robert D Adam , I live on acreage beside Red Deer, Alberta, Canada.
This red ZR-1 came from southern Minnisota , I bought it 12 years ago. It run perfect 3 years, then had a no start for 2 hours on a hot day in the city.
The car then had a couple more no start issues, and it got parked. It sat a 3 year stretch, then one year ago got it barely running, drove it 20 miles, it had maybe 100 hp, parked it for winter, tried many times to start this year. I discovered a bad fuel pump 1, so replaced both, cleaned tank, etc. That brings us to present day.

I rechecked testing the yellow/black stripe wire as in photo I sent, no power there even when using start position.
I installed the Vats Interrogator. Nothing has been replaced, other than fuel pumps, filter, and battery.
I did use a cheap $30 code reader, only got the code 12. Yesterday I took a bent paper clip and jumped the A & B in the ALDL connector, and I got NO codes, but the radiator fan came on full blast, and I think maybe some dash lights, just don't remember exactly.
I am going to find my code reader and retry for codes.
I now have that second book, the 8A section.
I do believe the ignition switch needs replacement, becoz last year there was intermittent connections in the start position, and now nothing in start position.
Also believe there is fuel enable issue, as it fires for a couple seconds, then nothing until sitting for 10 min.

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10-07-2017	#11
QB93Z Join Date: May 2007 Location: Westminster, Maryland Posts: 3,689	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box That is good information. When you were cranking this time, did the lights on the cluster and the dash stay on? Jim __________________ If it isn't fun, you aren't doing it right! 1990 Black ZR-1 - sold 1993 Quasar Blue ZR-1 1994 Competition Yellow ZR-1 1995 Dark Purple ZR-1 Maryland State Coordinator WAZOO Member

10-07-2017	#12
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 85	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Not sure becoz when using the jumper wire, I am standing by front tire. Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-07-2017	#13
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 85	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Got no helper until next week, but I will try to rig up a mirror or something here now Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-07-2017	#14
QB93Z Join Date: May 2007 Location: Westminster, Maryland Posts: 3,689	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box OK, I understand. Jim

10-08-2017	#15
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 85	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box So I checked, the dash lights and dic lights stay on while cranking. Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-08-2017	#17
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 85	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Won't have the section 8A booklet until next Tuesday nite. Test light connected from Negative to Purple wire, key on Start position, nothing , no power to test light. 4 month old battery when charged up using a good 40 amp charger for 3 hrs, then sitting for 10 hours, never seems to get above 11.9 volts, unless charger is turned back on, then I get the 13.2 volts. I tested both sides of the connector as shown in photo I texted. No power . Not sure what that connector does. Haven't found the starter interrupt yet, having trouble getting my head under the dash,...going to get a hand held mirror to help see up there. Not sure how to identify specific terminals.... I have attempted to try to get ohm readings on fuel injectors with plenum in place. I pull #1 inj fuse, then plug a lead wire from front half of fuse holder to a tester lead, then take other lead onto a paper clip and probe the pin sockets on the left hand ECM plug. I tried with battery disconnected .... Can't get anything to read.....I followed a description from Marc H, no readings. I wonder if I am not getting the right place to hook the grounding side in the fuse box ? Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5

10-09-2017	#18
QB93Z Join Date: May 2007 Location: Westminster, Maryland Posts: 3,689	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Please verify your readings from yesterday evening. Check for 12 vdc on the yellow wire that goes to the two wire connector in the top photo. The connector has two wires, yellow with a black stripe and purple. With the key in START, there should be 12 vdc on the yellow wire. If you still get no voltage at the yellow wire, then the problem is in the Starter Enable Relay circuit or the Ignition Switch itself. I think that the "other wire" with orange/white wire is for the under dash light so it should have 12 vdc when a door is open. The Starter Enable Relay is turned on by the Central Control Module (CCM). The CCM gets a signal from the VATS Module and from the Theft Deterrent System. These components are interconnected. The service manual says: page 6E3-A-68: If the CCM does not send the correct VATS/TDS signal to the ECM, the ECM will not pulse the injectors and the car will not start page 9D-2: The Starter Interrupt Relay: If VATS is not satisfied, the CCM will Reset (not allow start) for 2-4 minutes (crank and fuel disabled) and will not permit starting. This is why the car will crank if you use the purple wire jumper, but it won't continue to run because the ECM and CCM are blocking the signal to the Fuel Enable Relay. Last edited by QB93Z; 10-09-2017 at 08:43 PM.

10-09-2017	#19
QB93Z Join Date: May 2007 Location: Westminster, Maryland Posts: 3,689	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Do you know the history of this ZR-1? Did it ever run for you? Who installed the VATS interrogator? Have the CCM, ECM, Ignition Switch, VATS module, the Clutch Safety Switch, the Fuel Enable Relay, or the Starter Interrupt Relay been replaced? Do you know how to use the Diagnostic Connector to check for Trouble Codes? What we need to do now is try to put everything back together and then follow the trouble shooting listed in the service manual. I will be glad to try to help you do that. By the way, what is you name and where do you live? Jim

10-17-2017	#20
karlaw Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alberta Posts: 85	Re: Buzzing noises from glove box Hi Jim. My name is Robert D Adam , I live on acreage beside Red Deer, Alberta, Canada. This red ZR-1 came from southern Minnisota , I bought it 12 years ago. It run perfect 3 years, then had a no start for 2 hours on a hot day in the city. The car then had a couple more no start issues, and it got parked. It sat a 3 year stretch, then one year ago got it barely running, drove it 20 miles, it had maybe 100 hp, parked it for winter, tried many times to start this year. I discovered a bad fuel pump 1, so replaced both, cleaned tank, etc. That brings us to present day. I rechecked testing the yellow/black stripe wire as in photo I sent, no power there even when using start position. I installed the Vats Interrogator. Nothing has been replaced, other than fuel pumps, filter, and battery. I did use a cheap $30 code reader, only got the code 12. Yesterday I took a bent paper clip and jumped the A & B in the ALDL connector, and I got NO codes, but the radiator fan came on full blast, and I think maybe some dash lights, just don't remember exactly. I am going to find my code reader and retry for codes. I now have that second book, the 8A section. I do believe the ignition switch needs replacement, becoz last year there was intermittent connections in the start position, and now nothing in start position. Also believe there is fuel enable issue, as it fires for a couple seconds, then nothing until sitting for 10 min. Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry __________________ LT5