Close to an end? Obama an illegal.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by John Boothby

I support our troops 110%!

The problem is when we use the military WITHOUT a full and complete stratigey as to what the goal is and withdrawing from the conflict.

I totally agree. Objective and goals should be concrete. Going over there to protect our freedom here seems a bit vague.
Go over if we need to. Whack their pee-pee and get out.

[vandornjim]

Well at least you put all of your gracious oopinions into one post, not 4 or 5 in a row.

Originally Posted by scottfab

There have been 16 presidents (answers.com) who have not served in the military.

As I said, "SINCE and including TRUMAN" there have been only two. That means since WWII.

Originally Posted by scottfab

It would make as much sense to require that all supreme court justices serve as a prison guard.

Sounds like something you'd make sense of...

Personally I feel safer knowing there is a TSA there.

Good for you buddy. If the governemnt is involved, I feel vulnerable not more secure. If you think a 6 year old little girl is a threat to airline security, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't happen to think so.

I don't piss, whine and moan when I am hand searched.

Did you like it or something?
Well, let's just say when the Pakistani tried to search my youngest at DFW, I didn't piss and moan, I told the truth. I told them if anyone touched my daughter, I would hurt them enough they would remember me for the rest of their lives. There were 6 security people there in a minute or so. In the back room they emptied my daughter's back pack which had already gone through security. Her homework and her Bible was all that was there. It's a parent's thing Scott, maybe something you don't understand?

It is easy to turn this into the typical piss'n match and blame everyone before for our situation. I don't turn to politics.
If I thought Obamba was the greatest of all greats, the simple fact that he can't get a single vote out of 565 members of Congress, for his own budget, tells me something. We need a new mechanic.....

Will somebody pass me a metric crescent wrench please? Nuff said....but you keep going ScotFab....

[MikeGolf]

I love me some JVD. Especially those Bowtie burgers. Looking forward to seeing you at the Gathering this year.

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Well at least you put all of your gracious oopinions into one post, not 4 or 5 in a row.

Yah, I took your lead on that. Usually I like to keep each topic separate so as to not obfuscate the central theme. But then I realized your central theme was generally the same. Nothing Obama does or has done meets with your approval. Fare enough. Just know that not all of us out here agree with that.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

As I said, "SINCE and including TRUMAN" there have been only two. That means since WWII.

Correct you are. I did not explain my statement well enough. My point is that two presidents since WWII was not a complete story. The complete story is that 16 have served as commander and chief without military service. And I think you'll see some familiar names that were major contributors to our nation.

1. John Adams
2. Thomas Jefferson
3. James Madison
4. John Quincy Adams
5. Martin Van Buren
6. James Polk
7. Millard Fillmore
8. Grover Cleveland
9. William Howard Taft
10. Woodrow Wilson
11. Warren G. Harding
12. Calvin Coolidge
13. Herbert Hoover
14. Franklin D. Roosevelt
15. William Jefferson Clinton
16. Barack Obama

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Good for you buddy. If the governemnt is involved, I feel vulnerable not more secure. If you think a 6 year old little girl is a threat to airline security, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't happen to think so.

You are entitled to that opinion as I am mine. As someone who has traveled domestically and internationally quite a bit I feel safe with them there. Searches before 9/11 were comforting. After 9/11 the are even more so.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Did you like it or something?
Well, let's just say when the Pakistani tried to search my youngest at DFW, I didn't piss and moan, I told the truth. I told them if anyone touched my daughter, I would hurt them enough they would remember me for the rest of their lives. There were 6 security people there in a minute or so. In the back room they emptied my daughter's back pack which had already gone through security. Her homework and her Bible was all that was there. It's a parent's thing Scott, maybe something you don't understand?

You certainly had the right to say that and you thereby received the proper attention. When I traveled with my toddlers/preteens I encouraged them to follow the rules and I provided an example for them by my behavior. The example I provided did not require additional security nor a private screening. I did however incur the wrath of one TSA rep upon returning from China by saying something argumentative. I sure wish I hadn't said it. They have a job to do and as even celebrities find our from time to time, you don't piss with them.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

It is easy to turn this into the typical piss'n match and blame everyone before for our situation. I don't turn to politics.
If I thought Obamba was the greatest of all greats, the simple fact that he can't get a single vote out of 565 members of Congress, for his own budget, tells me something. We need a new mechanic.....

That I believe in in error. I see a 414 member vote against but only after the "Boner" pushed the measure to the floor prematurely. It was a political ploy. As convenient as it is not to mention that it has nothing to do with the overall record of Obama. Just headlines for the press and an exaggeration to support the anti Obama crusade on this forum.
Is Obama the greatest of all greats as JVD states? Not by me he isn't.
But once again, he is not as bad as some of the rhetoric I've seen from the closet haters would have us believe.

Originally Posted by vandornjim

Will somebody pass me a metric crescent wrench please? Nuff said....but you keep going ScotFab....

Nah I'm done. You can have the last "embellishment".
Well unless a new assertion is made that is too far off in the weeds.
I can't even imagine what you'll go through if there is no change in the presidency this year. Man would that sting or what?

[vandornjim]

Originally Posted by MikeGolf

I love me some JVD. Especially those Bowtie burgers. Looking forward to seeing you at the Gathering this year.

Sorry Mike. This year we're having "Bamba burgers" (pending Supreme Court approval of course). They were a really "popular" with the GSA gang down in Vegas. They are a special blend of pork ingredients including Guantanamo Bay leaves, North Korean middle finger, Iranian laughing gas, and a special Afghany goat sauce. All of that served "open pockets" on a bed of Chinese noodles, and boasted over a Solyndra powered grill.

All will be served with Bush's Bake Beans and Boston Tea.

They are a deal for only $988 each if you are in the top 1%, or, if you are unemployed for over 3 years, and have given your "fair share", we welcome food stamps.

We're currently seeking non-working, stay at home Mom's to be servers....


(And if you don't like the food, we can always blame it on the "beans"....)

[MikeGolf]

Do I have to show my ID to prove who I am? Are you going to have any TSA people working the door? Make sure you have red and blue and green (camouflaged) table clothes so we'll know which group to sit with. Thanks again for hosting it. Enjoyed the side of humor.

[Eric24]

Originally Posted by John Boothby

You guys do realize that without the draft (as it was in my day) the percentage of Americans that do choose to put "their all" on the line for our great country is dwindling. The "Citizen Soldier" is going to be a ghost of the past, in favor of the career soldiers. Personally, I am in favor of a draft. To much has fallen on the shoulders of too few the last 10 years!

I agree with to much has fallen on the current Soldier, and i have continued to see people enlist into the Army at least. I had a 42 year old sign up just so he could do his part for his country. I dont see any issues with people signing up, shoot, now HE is trying to down size the military, so i dont think we need a draft.

I do think people should have to serve for at least a few years, South Korea makes there kids do it as well. I understand that it would be a night mare for the U.S. to start this and that it will never happen but maybe then some people would appreciate this country more.

I was in the Army when they brought people back for Desert Storm, it was ugly, they were out of shape, disgruntle, and most of them turned into a huge LEADERSHIP challenge.

[Eric24]

Originally Posted by scottfab

I've often thought Israel has a great idea.
All must serve in one capacity of another.
I served 4yrs working to make military and shuttle radios at Rockwell .
Not exactly front line but then most grunts that serve
aren't Navy Seal types either.
I had one work for me for 6 yrs. Certainly a different kind
of worker for sure.

Not sure what you mean by, "not exactly front line but then most grunts that serve aren't Navy Seals types either"....?

"I had one work for me for 6 yrs. Certainly a different kind of worker for sure"?

If your saying the only worthy combat Soldier are Navy Seals then we have an issue. If your not then we wont have an issue. There are no more FRONT LINES over there, as a Infantry Soldier, I would like to think that we are the ones fighting the fight, but now days anyone over there will get some action or be near some action. Now, the Infantry Solider or Soldiers attached to Infantry units will get the brunt of the action, we live in the hornets nest, we take it from the bad guys, and we dish it out almost everyday. We dont pick and choose our battles like some units get to, nor do we get to do 3-6 month rotations like most units do.

I appreciate everyone who goes over there and when the dust settles, i dont care what branch your in, I will try to protect you to the fullest.

Just dont say because of what you read, or hear about that Seals are the top dog or do most of the action, again, not sure what you really meant by those sentences but i felt like it was a negative jab at grunts.

[John Boothby]

Originally Posted by Eric24

I was in the Army when they brought people back for Desert Storm, it was ugly, they were out of shape, disgruntle, and most of them turned into a huge LEADERSHIP challenge.

The draft did bring in undesirables. Those can be weeded out. I just think that military service builds character and instills discipline that appears to be lacking in younger people these days. My cousin's grandson was just discharged from the USMC after a tour in Afghanastan. Before he inlisted he was a handful and had no idea what he wanted to do. Now he is focused on a career in psychology and law inforcement. Another kid brought back from the dark side!!

By the way, you do want a trooper that is a LITTLE pissed off!! We were a pretty eclectic group!!

[Eric24]

I had the honor of being a Drill Sergeant for 3 years, i saw alot of changes in those 3 years for sure. I had dads even crying saying that could not beleive the change in their son, it was pretty cool seeing the kids come on day 1 and the change in them on the last day.

It i s super hard now days to kick the crappy kids out of the Army, with some good old school changes coming back maybe it will help a little but it is such a drain on the NCO's now days to get someone out. You end up spending all your time escorting dirt bags around and spending what little off time you have off with them.

I totoally understand what your saying about the draft etc..and there will always be a leadership challenge in anything you do.