Whats going to go out first,master cylinder or slave..............

[Z51JEFF]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

Hmm mine was made in the UL did you go with a different seller? GC

The place I buy all my AC Delco parts from sold me these.Im going to start on this in a few days,not looking forward to it.

[Z51JEFF]

Originally Posted by tomtom72

Hey Jeff, thanks for the insight from Bill.

I took my cast slave from wagoner apart last night and it sure is a thing of beauty updated piston seal and the spring ends are dressed nicely, and NO Debris floating around in the bore!

The only issue is the mounting flange is thicker and I'm not sure the OE studs will show enough threads thru this thicker flange? I also wish I could say that I'll know this weekend, or sometime this week when I get under there to change out the slave...but I can't because this will have to wait for good weather so I can work outside. My guess would be the same as it was back in 05, the flange is too thick for the OE studs to let the nuts catch many threads.

I forgot this Jeff, you will not need to remove anything beyond the gill panel and the battery. You can dismount the ECM and flip it over to the wiper area if you like, I never do that because it's not in the way once the battery is out. The ECM bracket and the rear wheel house liner are also not factors in this r&r. I hear you about no space in which to work and spread things out. The only thing that I found that really helps is a universal joint, various extension lengths or my favorite weapon....a 13mm socket with a u-joint built into it! Once the battery is out you can get a good shot at the bolts on the M/C no sweat. The stock cats on our early exhaust systems get in the way for the slave r&r. The studs are oriented so that the lower stud is at 5 o'clock and the upper is at 11 o'clock. The upper is bad with the OE cat as I used about 2' worth of extensions to get behind the cat and next to the trans tunnel mid section. That I found gave the straightest shot to get on the top nut. Undo the lines before loosening any of the hold down nuts and bolts. I'm telling you that after it done you will say the worst part of the job was the hush panel and that stupid clip on the pedal!

On the bleed out, listen to Bill. Please no full pedal stokes. You don't want to bottom out the pistons in their bores just like when you do brakes. If you had a spare line I'd say to use the old master to charge up the new slave before install, in your case. I saved my 90 line so I use it to charge up both on my bench. If you have a phoenix bleeder tool you can use it to do the bench bleed on both before install. I can mail you mine if you prefer? I only use it for the clutch hydraulics and it has only had GM clutch fluid ran thru it. I have a small stock pile of the GM stuff. I bought it back in the days when brake fluid was not the first choice in the system as a fluid. It is a sweet tool and it will charge up the system from bone dry perfectly as it is a reverse bleed from the slave up to the master.


Tom

I went back and reread all the tips.I started asking some of the people around town for some tips,what a mistake that was.One guy told me to drop the exhaust and then told me once the car is up in the air dont open anything or it will break the bodyI think Ill stick to the NET.One thing Ive found in the past is if I dread doing a job Ive yet to do it never seems as bad once Im done.This is my plan for the fluid.I dont want fluid ANYWHERE near the car until Im ready to bleed the system so what Im going to do is crack open the slave bleeder,connect a small hose,put that in a container of fluid and go from there.I know this is as primitive as it gets but it works for me......I hope.Ill post up pictures as I go.That tip about the 2 foot extension is what helped.I got the jacks under the car and just peeked,cant see anything put the cat.

[tomtom72]

Jeff,

Don't worry about not seeing anything by just peeking......you can't!

The slave is kind of above the level of the left CAT. You can't see it unless you are laying under the car looking straight up to the left and ahead ( towards the bell housing lower left side ) of the left CAT.


Tom

Just get the car up high enough for you to get comfy laying on your back and look up at the left side of the bell housing & you will see the slave. You need enough altitude on the jack stands so you can get your arms over your body to work.

[Z51JEFF]

Ive got the slave replaced,the clip is impossible to get to.Im working in a one car garage and just cant get it with the door partially open so the master cylinder will have to wait.Now Im trying to bleed the system and cant get the pressure to build.Ive filled the reservoir,pumped the peddle,nothing.Im working on it today.

[LGAFF]

if presssure does not build more than likely the rod is not in the pivot of the fork....

[tomtom72]

Exactly right, without the door fully open you will have a heck of a time getting in the right position to get the clip off. Mainly because it's the first time you're doing it. I can do mine by feel as I changed so many M/C's during the Q/Control issues.

Once the hush panel is off, if you feel along the clutch pedal arm till you get to the top. You can feel the connection that the pedal arm's stud has with the push rod on the M/C. Feeling around at that point you will feel the center sprung metal tab on that lock washer. Lift the tab up with a finger and push the M/C's push rod off the stud on the pedal arm.

On the bleed, it took me forever, about 50 short strokes to get anything down to the slave to begin the bleeding of the air out of the slave. Unfortunately it take forever to get the fluid down to an empty slave from a full M/C. You could try to open the bleeder on the slave just to help get the fluid down there faster. Then once it leaks out you close the bleeder and resume the short strokes to actually bleed the system. This is the very reason I bought the Phoenix Injector tool, to cut down on the work to bleed the system.

[tomtom72]

Good call Lee. I had not thought that the slaves push rod didn't make it to the fork!


sorry my brain is old & senile. I didn't think to ask, you are using a DOM type slave cylinder, right? They still come with the plastic push rod retainer? The old ones used to come with the rod retracted via a plastic retainer. The idea was that when you got system pressure, the retainer broke and the rod extended into the depression in the fork.

The trouble with that system ( JMHO ) is that unless you take extreme care to make sure that the rod is in the fork right...you have bleeding trouble and other trouble. I used to take the retainer off before the install so I could better feel that the rod made it to the depression on the fork. It was harder to get the nuts started, but the alternative possibilities were to scary to me. You need to push on the slave to get the nuts started by hand but at least you could be sure that the rod was in the fork correctly....because you could actually see it be in the depression when fully extended.

[Z51JEFF]

The slave is the cast design,thought the studs might be too short so I removed them and got some bolts just in case but found the studs will work with the cast design.I double checked the rod for placement and it is in the fork,when bolting down the slave I had to push in onto the studs to start the bolts,spring kept wanting to push the slave back away from the bell housing.What I just tried was connecting a hose placed into some fluid and pump the peddle.It pulls the fluid but wont pull into the slave,Ill put some sealent on the threads to seal against air.I wish I has one of the Phenix bleeders,nobody in town has one and dont have the time to have one shipped. thought the slave cylinder was going to be the pain,that was fairly easy.If I keep have problems Ill have to pull the slave and check the rod but the spring tention tells me its in the fork but I could be wrong.

[Z51JEFF]

Finely got it or I think I did.With all the talk about this Phoenix Bleeder I went out looking for one,no luck but I did have a brain storm.Ive got a Mityvac that I bought a few years ago,dug it out and took a look.Worked like a charm.The peddle still feels a little soft but from what Ive read it should work out.You guys are the bestHeres what Im working with.Think Im a little paranoid when it comes to brake fluid?Just as soon as I got done with the Mityvac out of the garage it went.[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]