Brakes VS Hp

[WantaKoth]

Putting together a list of parts/costs to build a 510 hp street car. Not interested in a track car. I know what the 510 package costs, I know what the ridetech coilover package cost, but where I?m at is wheels/tires and brakes. I know a lot of guys are starting to move to new style 18? 19? rims to clear large calipers. My real question is are large calipers really needed for this setup and the street. New style rims can easily be 6-10k and large caliper brakes start at 3k. I heard some guys using Shelby 18? with stock or grand sport calipers, upgraded rotors, pads and stainless brake lines. My question is what will clear an older style Shelby, OZ or even maybe my 17? stock 90 rims and be the best setup at a reasonable cost. Are any of these options reliable and safe or do I need to plan on large rims and calipers. Looking forward to hearing your suggestions. Thanks.

[Meanmyz]

Unless you are just wanting to spend money on "bling", I don't think you really have to do much at all for brakes in upgrading your horsepower.

For the most part, big brakes aren't going to stop your car any faster. The J55 brakes your car came with are more than up to the task. A benefit of big brakes is the ability to take more heat under hard use before having problems...not ultimate stopping distance.

I recommend a good set of brake pads such as Hawk HPS. I just put on a set of Powerstop Z26 pads last year and hardly have any dust anymore. I just haven't used them hard enough yet to comment on there ability to stop. So far I am very happy...and I do occasionally race, such as at SORC in Nebraska.

Of course, bling factor is another thing. If that is what you want, have at it.

[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by Meanmyz

Unless you are just wanting to spend money on "bling", I don't think you really have to do much at all for brakes in upgrading your horsepower.

For the most part, big brakes aren't going to stop your car any faster. The J55 brakes your car came with are more than up to the task. A benefit of big brakes is the ability to take more heat under hard use before having problems...not ultimate stopping distance.

I recommend a good set of brake pads such as Hawk HPS. I just put on a set of Powerstop Z26 pads last year and hardly have any dust anymore. I just haven't used them hard enough yet to comment on there ability to stop. So far I am very happy...and I do occasionally race, such as at SORC in Nebraska.

Of course, bling factor is another thing. If that is what you want, have at it.

Totally agree as one with the "510" package AND the Hawk HPS pads and prefers twisties (mountain roads) using considerable braking. The J55s work fine.
Now, for a dedicated track/competition pad, THAT is a horse of a different color, far as pads/calipers go. Those that go to the track often change pads before going on the track, and then change back to street pads when leaving the track.

I thing you'll like the HPS pad performance very much. And, HP doesn't really play into the equation: you can lock up the wheels with them on the J55s and once you do, it doesn't matter what pads/calipers you have. It won't stop any faster.

So, unless you're headed for the track, OR you just like the aesthetic appeal or some other attraction, the J55s (with good pads) are hard to beat. (And, just last weekend I threw my Z into some twisty mountain curves - got the tires into a few 4-wheel drifting situations too - and the HPS pads never faded once. Just sayin!)

[onethumb]

Bring able to fit a modern tire to the car was the driving choice for me getting larger rims. I went with a custom 3-piece wheel to get the offsets right, and now can fit Michelin PS4S or P-Zeros.
One thing to note: everything takes forever right now. I'm about halfway through a 20 week lead time on my new wheels. So take that into consideration when planning your build.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Originally Posted by WantaKoth

Putting together a list of parts/costs to build a 510 hp street car. Not interested in a track car. I know what the 510 package costs, I know what the ridetech coilover package cost, but where I?m at is wheels/tires and brakes. I know a lot of guys are starting to move to new style 18? 19? rims to clear large calipers. My real question is are large calipers really needed for this setup and the street. New style rims can easily be 6-10k and large caliper brakes start at 3k. I heard some guys using Shelby 18? with stock or grand sport calipers, upgraded rotors, pads and stainless brake lines. My question is what will clear an older style Shelby, OZ or even maybe my 17? stock 90 rims and be the best setup at a reasonable cost. Are any of these options reliable and safe or do I need to plan on large rims and calipers. Looking forward to hearing your suggestions. Thanks.

You will get tons of different opinions as only you can determine what you want versus what you need. When I build my cars I don?t care what anyone thinks and I base it on feel, real world experience, and how I want it to look. I didn?t feel the need to upgrade brakes until I changed to a certain style of wheel and experienced what I lacked for me on the track. Even if I do not drive often on the track. You can test your car in a safe environment by doing emergency braking. If you feel it is okay for you then you will know if you want to try just pads, fluid, braided lines, etc. I had done all of that before upgrading actual calipers and rotors.

When my car looked stock I was satisfied with stock everything. I will tell you that I have a different opinion with different model years of ZR-1s I have owned and their wheel design. I did not care for the stock 90 wheels as an example so I went CCW Classics in 18?. On my 95 with the stock open design of A molds it shows more brake so I wanted to upgrade for aesthetic reasons and once I tracked the car. I also have Shelby Series 1s on this car. Since they are 18? and more open it really looked empty behind the wheel. I also have Dymag Gen II I run on this car which are 17? and very open wheels too. So I went with Wilwood 6 piston front and 4 piston rear that allows me to run all my wheels in both 17? and 18?. Having said that not all stock Z wheels have the same clearance by pad height and design. They provide detailed diagrams for you to measure clearance before purchase. Not all their kits have the same calipers and clearance to so I went with the Narrow Lites. I actually had Wilwoods from Revolution Brakes that caused clearance issues; not with actual Wilwood kits. The best price I found found for Wilwood was from Jeg?s with free shipping, even to my postal address in Japan.

I upgraded both front and rear to Wilwood and could not be happier with the improved braking, feel, and looks. For me I have everything I want in the cars braking ability for street or track. I personally would not put 19? or larger wheels on a C4 Corvette, I just don?t like the ratio of wheel to car design and that is just me. The bottom line is work your way up in your likes and expectations and base it on your experience as you use your brakes to determine what is best for you. Best wishes in your quest and build.

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...&axle=Front+Ki

I am posting a few photos for my rationale. You will also need to consider caliper clearance for your spare tire once you upgrade your brakes. The one shown is from a late model GTO (some people use the Cadillac CTS-V spare.


Image1630774432.793732.jpgImage1630774555.096105.jpgImage1630774607.505561.jpgImage1630774698.658368.jpgImage1630776105.312002.jpg



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[onethumb]

Wow---those wilwoods just barely fit under the rims.


When buying my rims and brakes, I noticed that the wilwoods were pretty bulky, but visually it's just obvious how much they dictate your wheel offset and shape.

I went a different direction for that reason. I couldn't fit wilwoods under the wheel I wanted.

Originally Posted by HAWAIIZR-1

You will get tons of different opinions as only you can determine what you want versus what you need. When I build my cars I don?t care what anyone thinks and I base it on feel, real world experience, and how I want it to look. I didn?t feel the need to upgrade brakes until I changed to a certain style of wheel and experienced what I lacked for me on the track. Even if I do not drive often on the track. You can test your car in a safe environment by doing emergency braking. If you feel it is okay for you then you will know if you want to try just pads, fluid, braided lines, etc. I had done all of that before upgrading actual calipers and rotors.

When my car looked stock I was satisfied with stock everything. I will tell you that I have a different opinion with different model years of ZR-1s I have owned and their wheel design. I did not care for the stock 90 wheels as an example so I went CCW Classics in 18?. On my 95 with the stock open design of A molds it shows more brake so I wanted to upgrade for aesthetic reasons and once I tracked the car. I also have Shelby Series 1s on this car. Since they are 18? and more open it really looked empty behind the wheel. I also have Dymag Gen II I run on this car which are 17? and very open wheels too. So I went with Wilwood 4 piston all around that allows me to run all my wheels in both 17? and 18?. Having said that not all stock Z wheels have the same clearance by pad height and design. They provide detailed diagrams for you to measure clearance before purchase. Not all their kits have the same calipers and clearance to so I went with the Narrow Lites. I actually had Wilwoods from Revolution Brakes that caused clearance issues; not with actual Wilwood kits. The best price I found found for Wilwood was from Jeg?s with free shipping, even to my postal address in Japan.

I upgraded both front and rear to Wilwood and could not be happier with the improved braking, feel, and looks. For me I have everything I want in the cars braking ability for street or track. I personally would not put 19? or larger wheels on a C4 Corvette, I just don?t like the ratio of wheel to car design and that is just me. The bottom line is work your way up in your likes and expectations and base it on your experience as you use your brakes to determine what is best for you. Best wishes in your quest and build.

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...&axle=Front+Ki

I am posting a few photos for my rationale. You will also need to consider caliper clearance for your spare tire once you upgrade your brakes. The one shown is from a late model GTO (some people use the Cadillac CTS-V spare.


Attachment 16220Attachment 16221Attachment 16222Attachment 16223Attachment 16224



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[HAWAIIZR-1]

Originally Posted by onethumb

Wow---those wilwoods just barely fit under the rims.





When buying my rims and brakes, I noticed that the wilwoods were pretty bulky, but visually it's just obvious how much they dictate your wheel offset and shape.



I went a different direction for that reason. I couldn't fit wilwoods under the wheel I wanted.

The only ?real? Wilwood kit is the one behind the Shelby Series 1 that come with Narrow Lite calipers; these have a lot of clearance for almost any wheel. The other photos are with Revolution Brakes kits using wider Wilwood calipers (I can?t recall the model name).

If you don?t mind, please share for the group what brakes works well and the type of wheels that required clearance from bigger brakes. Thanks.


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[Meanmyz]

I have to admit Craig, those Wilwood's do look nice! Even I have to fight off the temptations! So does Wilwood offer different compounds based on whether you want less dust or more aggressive track bite?

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Originally Posted by Meanmyz

I have to admit Craig, those Wilwood's do look nice! Even I have to fight off the temptations! So does Wilwood offer different compounds based on whether you want less dust or more aggressive track bite?

Thanks. I realize there are many choices at various price points, but these were good for what I was seeking. Yes, they have many different types of compounds for each pad type. So far I?m very pleased with the ones that came with the kit (in my case the BP-10s) I guess it all depends on what is most important and how it will be used.

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/Br...ist?padtype=74

Clicking on the details will give the specifics you were inquiring about for example:

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakePads/Br...emno=150-8855K



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[wfot]

If I might chime in,

This is a personal choice/preference type of thing. I would recommend taking a ride in a car that is set up with a brake set up you are considering. That way you have a first hand experience for yourself. What might be impressive to you might be hoo-hum to another.

There are a lot of options. from higher coefficient pads on stock hardware, to Grand sport calipers. then newer c5 brakes or wilwood calipers/rotors.

I have found that the brake pad compound coefficient has trade offs. the lower coefficient, the less brake grip when hot and the higher coefficients have more grip when the brakes are warm/hot, but are not as effective when cold. And as mentioned earlier, there are pads that need to be run HOT and those are the ones swapped out when at the track and then the lower coefficient pads are swapped back in for the ride home. When some of these higher coefficient pads are used outside the operating temp range (almost all suppliers have temp ranges on there pads compounds) the pad will really beat up the rotors.

Again, all personal choices. So try to find a car that is set up that looks like it would work for you and go for a ride if you can.

I have been on this road and done some research and R & D on the limited parts that we have to choose from. I was very lucky and found an old BEAR kit that was made by ALCON, this was the same kit that linginfelter put on his upgrades. I tried different pads in stock rotors and then grand sport calipers (they are nice) and then went with the thicker wider rotor in front and a wilwood kit in the back. this required a proportioning valve (also Wilwood) the limiting factor in the car is now the grip of the tires....

John