368...should I, could I, would I

[XfireZ51]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

I enjoyed 1500 miles of it over the last two days. Its running strong!!!! Thanks for those cams Pete. Up to doing another set of Intakes? GC

GC,

Glad to see the calibration is working out. We'll need data logging to get a finer tune, but its good to see we're close.

[ZZZZZR1]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

You heard it this morning David!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure the AH you passed heard it too!!!!



David

[GOLDCYLON]

Originally Posted by ZZZZZR1

I'm sure the AH you passed heard it too!!!!



David

Yep RV that pulled right out in front of me lol

[Paul Workman]

Some pictures via the FBI skunkworks...

First, the open deck solution...

Haibeck's caged sleeves: Aluminum cage is machined from a single billet of aluminum



Then the cage is welded to the block and machined to form a home for the BIG sleeves.



Top view of the Haibeck 441 open deck LT5. Notice the steels sleeve liners and the cage surrounding them. This configuration offers exceptional stability and durability and oil consumption control.



Frank U has the Haibeck 441 and (last I heard) has over 30k miles on it and it makes gobs of power in all the right places, seen here...



(Continued)

[Paul Workman]

Here is AES's appoach, modeled off of some very highly boosted Hondas that seem to hold together quite well too.

The closed deck sleeve differs from the open deck sleeve in that the sleeve wears a "hat". When that hat is combined with the other sleeves, they completely closes off the water jacket from the head, except for coolant circulation gallies. This approach is more resitant (in theory) to gasket damage in the case of mild overheating. And, apparently the design is favorable to boosting (judging by their use in highly boosted Honda motors). Note: The block has to be relieved to accomodate the collar or hat around the sleeves.

The AES sleeves...



Here we see the sleeves resting in their assigned cylinders before being pressed into place.



And here the sleeves and pistons are installed.



The closed deck approach is relatively new, but so far there are 3 of them in the northern IL area: a pair of 441s and a screamin' 427 that run in the 10s, and yet have perfect street manners if not quite a stock idle!

As I said earlier, there are those that STILL view the LT5 as the King of the HILL on a day to day basis, and are dedicated to pick up where GM (unfortunately) left off. I mean really...When you see the numbers Frank's and Kevin's, and Bob's 441/427s make, normally aspirated, and idle like a stocker (OK, a rough stocker) and are perfectly happy to go for a cruise or smoke the quarter mile... Well, all I can do is shake my head. And, to put the icing on the point, watch Pete turn in low 11s (even a couple 11.01s) on a stock bottom 350 LT5 that will cruise happily in city traffic.

Don't let anyone tell you the LT5 is past it's prime. By all appearances, it is just hitting some of the high notes now. And, for the record, pushrods were around (in Chebbies) LOOOONG before DOHCs were!



P.

[Polo-1]

Haibeck's Big Bore is a work of art!

At $15k for block work, it's out of my league

[scottfab]

Amazing pics.
What's the HP diff between the 441 and the 427?
Kinda make a 368 seem stock.

[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by scottfab

Amazing pics.
What's the HP diff between the 441 and the 427?
Kinda make a 368 seem stock.

I don't have any dyno sheets on Bob's 427, but both the 441s and his 427 run about 133-134 mph at the track.

P.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by scottfab

Amazing pics.
What's the HP diff between the 441 and the 427?
Kinda make a 368 seem stock.

At those levels the power is minimal something you won't notice/feel.
Some just like 427
The AES style sleeve is press fit at the top and bottom.
Yes,makes a 368 seem stock this is why i say for the cost go bigger.

There are 4 done like this (two 427's & two 441's) and if i had the extra coin i'd have a 396.

These do run 10's with lesser mods then yesteryears LT5's they have way smaller cams (3 of these have .224 duration exhaust cam) none have siamesed/droped plenums or IH's.
Heck one 441 still has stock valves and makes over 530 RWTQ
They are all very well manored and drive in traffic with no issues,of course they were tuned by me

The auto 441 made 570+RWHP 500RWTQ has run a best of 10.40 @ 133 the owner drives it to and from work (35 miles each way) in Chicago traffic and races on the weekends, it's so well manored grandma can drive it

We will be trying something new soon looking for more power,of course it's winter nothing else to do

Soon we might see more power with no sacrifice to street manors and
9 second ZR-1 on pump gas.

Pete

[Hog]

Anything can be done with enough time and money. This work is fascinating.

The open deck fix appears more stable.
Do the closed deck liner lock together or are they 4 independent units per cylinder bank?


$15,000US for blockwork alone is nothing to sneeze at. AES bigbore block packages start at $8500 So would we be looking at $30,000+ to drop off a car then pick it back up later on.

What happens if one of these monsters lets go, is there any warranty or are these considered raceparts?
I realize you gotta pay to play, but I'm curious. There has to be a best bang for buck combination, but with so many criteria choosing the correct setup as a customer or supplying the correct setup as a vendor has to be a daunting task. STock, reground or custom cams, displacement, fuel economy, driveability(street manners), durability, high rpm/low throttle oil control, so many choices, so much money, so much boosted or deflated reputations. The stakes are huge.
Hotrodding is such an interesting pastime, hotrodding such a limited run engine like the LT5 is even more interesting.
I'm still deciding if a ZR-1 would be right for me, I eat these discussions up like candy.

peace
Hog