Fidanza users

[Ccmano]

Originally Posted by Jagdpanzer

Next time you have the transmission out wouldn’t hurt to check the mounting flange bore and face runout with a dial indicator on both the transmission and bell housing.
A while back I was tracking down an unusual whining noise a ZF transmission was making in the lower gear ranges. This particular transmission came out of a wrecked ZR-1 that had 5K miles. Found one of the bolting ears on the main case to be slightly bent that introduced an angular misalignment on the input shaft which caused the input shaft bearing to whine. Machined the ear to correct the angular misalignment solved the whining noise problem.

Interesting thought Phil. Considering both transmissions exhibited the same sound, in your scenario it might be more likely that the bellhousing is off. I will try that next time.
H

[GOLDCYLON]

Originally Posted by Jagdpanzer

Next time you have the transmission out wouldn’t hurt to check the mounting flange bore and face runout with a dial indicator on both the transmission and bell housing.
A while back I was tracking down an unusual whining noise a ZF transmission was making in the lower gear ranges. This particular transmission came out of a wrecked ZR-1 that had 5K miles. Found one of the bolting ears on the main case to be slightly bent that introduced an angular misalignment on the input shaft which caused the input shaft bearing to whine. Machined the ear to correct the angular misalignment solved the whining noise problem.

I just read this Phil. When you said the word "machined" if anybody else said that statement I would assumed it was a truely involved process which would have Been a tad amount to swinging a large hammer. However I'm sure you actually did do as stated based upon your skillset. You must have the ultimate set of tools. Well done. GC

[efnfast]

You mention Hurst shifter. My shift knob, the nutsert was not tight in the plastic ball and it buzzed? rattled? buzz sawed? I replaced it. It made me drive around with my hand on the shifter which is not good practice, to keep it quite.

[jss06c6]

Originally Posted by Ccmano

Same bellhousing. Checked the surfaces before reassembly and didn’t see anything. Checked the alignment of the trans and c-beam to the tunnel upon assembly with the measuring sticks provided by Bill B in the Beam Plate kit. While the measurements were not perfect they were very close. As you know once everything except the c-Beam is bolted together adjustment is very limited. I may go back and see if I can get those specs closer.
H

Hmm.. other than normal gear rattle with clutch engaged in neutral, the Fidanza was stone quiet even before Bill rebuilt my trans. Concerning to me that the tolerances would be so critical. I pulled the bronze pilot bushing and other than being driven in a bit eccentric, it was good. You should not be getting any noticeable noise or rattle other than neutral and clutch engaged..

I've got the spring hub disc if you want it. Happy to ship to you on my nickel..

Steve

Sent from my XT1585 using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app

[Jagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

I just read this Phil. When you said the word "machined" if anybody else said that statement I would assumed it was a truely involved process which would have Been a tad amount to swinging a large hammer. However I'm sure you actually did do as stated based upon your skillset. You must have the ultimate set of tools. Well done. GC

Luckily l have a buddy with a nice Bridgeport mill with a table large enough to set up a ZF transmission


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[GOLDCYLON]

Originally Posted by Jagdpanzer

Luckily l have a buddy with a nice Bridgeport mill with a table large enough to set up a ZF transmission


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry

I have friends that help me out from time to time as well. GC

[Ccmano]

Originally Posted by jss06c6

Hmm.. other than normal gear rattle with clutch engaged in neutral, the Fidanza was stone quiet even before Bill rebuilt my trans. Concerning to me that the tolerances would be so critical. I pulled the bronze pilot bushing and other than being driven in a bit eccentric, it was good. You should not be getting any noticeable noise or rattle other than neutral and clutch engaged..

I've got the spring hub disc if you want it. Happy to ship to you on my nickel..

Steve

Sent from my XT1585 using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app

Thanks, I will take you up on that!

So what do we know, at least with my setup. The Fidanza was quiet when you had it and now the same FW in my car and we have noise. That should rule out the flywheel. I’ve installed it with two different transmissions and Throwout bearings. Noise with both setups. That should rule out the trans and the TO bearing. I’m using your PP. You had no noise. That should rule out the PP. So that leaves the disc, a tolerance stacking situation or an alignment problem as Phil pointed out. We might be getting somewhere here. Starting to look like there’s another trans pull in my future.

Of note was when I pulled the old pilot bearing out. It was a needle bearing type, so likely already a replacement. What was unusual was that it was sitting slightly crooked in the crank recess. I measured the degree of variation and found it was off by 0.0235in from high to low point. At the time I thought it was simply worn out. Now I’m wondering if it wasn’t an indication of misalignment.

Looks like I’ll be going back in....

H

[jss06c6]

If the needle bearing was an issue, I'd expect you would see wear on the pilot shaft, but you've changed transmissions and no change, so nix that thought.. I'll get the clutch disc out to you today Hans.. something's off here (pun not intended!) and we sure need to isolate it..

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[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by Ccmano

Interesting... so I just installed a brand new ZF blue label trans (lucky find, thanks Blackwidow#2) last Saturday. I have a Fidanza FW, new McLoed sprung hub organic disc, low mile Valeo ZR-1 spec PP, new fluted GM pilot bearing, new Centerforce throw out bearing (because of the blue label). Also have new driveshaft Moog u joints and new C Beam Plates from Bill B. The trans is flawless, smooth, tight and nice shifting. Used Castrol Edge 10-60 oil a prescribed in the trans.

I get moderate gear rattle at idle with the clutch out, less than with the old trans but still there with the idle bumped to 850. Stone quiet with the clutch pedal in. This was expected.

As with the old trans I still get what was previously noted in this thread by others as the electric (Skill) saw metallic sound on acceleration, at lower rpms, most noticeable in the low gears but also in the high gears, again only in the lower rpm ranges. Certainly there when lugging the engine. Also interesting is that when cold it is bearly noticeable. After about a half hour of driving or about 30 miles, when everything heats up, it becomes much louder.

From what I read here some cars with Fidanzas seem to have this and others not. I have OBX headers and exhaust. Heat shields have been removed, so some sort of external resonance is unlikely.

I would luv to get to the bottom of this. My (educated) speculation is as follows...... It is obviously some sort of high frequency vibration of a metallic nature. Since both trans’ exhibited this noise with the Fidanza I’m inclined to rule out the TO bearing. The old trans had a new old stock AC/Delco unit and the new trans has the centerforce. Btw the fit of the centerforce to the input shaft was much better than the Delco. That leaves us with the Fidanza itself. We could actually be hearing a ringing of sorts from the Flywheel? The disc is a possibility, depending on the MFG and construction of the hub, we could be hearing the vibration of the hub under load. The PP seems less likely. Most use the original Valeo, some have the noise and some don’t. The trans itself is a possibly but since my ultra high mile trans and the brand new one both exhibit the same noise I’m less inclined to think it’s a trans issue, tho still possible. Of course the interaction of the components is always a possibility too. As we know stacking of tolerances (positive and negative) can be a big issue.

Not sure if I can live with the noise at this point and may put the DM back in. But I will give it a try for a while.

I would be interested in the collective thoughts on the is matter. As in all things mechanical there is certainly a solution, we just have to find the source.
H

Setup:

Fidanza FW (new when installed)
Centerforce sprung hub organic disc (Camaro)
Needle bearing type pilot bushing
Veleo ZR-1 pressure plate (PP ARP bolts = 1/4"+ longer; drilled and tapped FW for longer bolts)
"AutoZone" TO bearing (New w/ PP installed, ~ 21k miles ago)
Driveline balanced (FW, main drive shaft w/ yoke w/ new Spicer U-joints)
Redline High Shock fully synthetic gear oil (replacing former BMW Castrol)
Black Tag ZF (stock) and stock shifter
Idle set to 850, LT5 = stock cams.

When drivetrain is cold, there is no rattle (neutral w/ clutch engaged)
When drivetrain is fully warmed up, there is some gear rattle
Gear whine is just perceptible in 1st gear, but exhaust/road noise drowns out any further (black tag type) gear noise in higher gears.

In contrast, Ami's Z has Pete's cams. Idle is set at 850, but has noticeable rattle when driveline is cold, but noise becomes worse.

Both cars have just perceptible gear whine when cruising in 6th gear.

I posted this video of my car as a reference - as I'm by the experiences some of y'all are reporting.

This is the only video I have of the car idling, configured as noted (above). Temp was in the teens. Gear rattle is non-existent.

Note: The engine was fully up to temp, but the the driveline was cold (teens ºF) as the car was allowed to idle (i.e., NOT driven first).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1YFa8ruh8A

[XfireZ51]

My Fidanza setup is made up of:

1. Stock TO bearing
2. Valeo PP
3. Centerforce Sprung Hub LT1 disk. Prior to that, OEM Camaro sprung hub.
4. Brass pilot bearing
5. Amsoil Manual Trans Synchro fluid
6. Hurst short throw shifter
7. A custom tune which I believe mitigates the rattle. Smoother idle and running minimize the gear rattle.
My motor has Dr. Greekenstein’s Intake and Exhaust cams.
Idle is ~ 925rpm. No rattle w cold trans. Gear rattle is there in Neutral. Loudness depends on how hot trans fluid is. No rattle or whine in any gear including 6th gear and lower rpms (12-1300rpm).