Help please with clutch master cylinder

[QB93Z]

Sal,

The problem that I see with pressure bleeders like the one you linked to is that you have to make sure that the line you connect to the bleeder port on the slave cylinder is free of air when you start or you are introducing more air into the system.

Also, when you pressure bleed from the bottom (slave cylinder), you will overflow the reservoir and spill fluid down the sides of the reservoir to the area you are concerned about. If you wrap a rag around the reservoir you may be able to catch the overflow.

Jim

[tomtom72]

Originally Posted by salvatore1

Tom,

I'm going to try reverse bleeding the system with something like this http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92474

Also, there is a very very small amount of fluid at the base of the reservoir that only shows up when you push down on it - is this still bad enough to replace. Although I am anal about spending good money for a part that still is not 100% perfect, I just cannot stand the thought of replacing the thing again.

I had one other question though. I notice there's a SPACER between the firewall and the master cylinder mount (about 1/4 thick). Should this stay even though my new cast iron MC mount is a little thicker (currently I have the spacer in place).


Sal

Sal I've never used that for the clutch system. Use the FSM method along with what Kb has added. Small pedal movement till you know you have fluid in everything. Then you can go to longer pedal movements to finish the air off.

On the M/C. I'm not an authority on this, but I'd toss it and try another part...easy for me to spend otherpeople's $. JMHO, try using a tissue to soak up what you can see. Re-bleed the system. Check it again & see what's up, then make a call. If I saw fluisd the next time around? In the trash with that one.

Yes, leave the spacer. It maintains the right geomerty so the M/C's piston stays in a flat plane when it travels the bore as it is pushed by the push rod.


Tom

[salvatore1]

Originally Posted by Kb7tif

Heres how I did it and worked 100%.
Open up the master so you can see the fluid,Roll the drivers window down use a baseball bat or something to press the clutch peddle very sightly about 1 or 2 inches, keep it there Small bubbles with surface in the master, release and do this several times. Until no more bubble come up. You should be 90%. peddle the clutch down with the foot several Times slowly. You should have a rock hard peddle. If you need to reverse bleed this there is trouble.
These systems are quite good, and should self bleed most air out in normal use. Good luck

I tried the "self bleeding" method. I had my son push the pedal in 2 or three inches and hold it. I did see a very very very small spray of bubbles (like pin tips) for the first try. After that absolutely no more bubbles no matter how many times he pumps it.

Unfortunately I still am not getting 100% disingagement from the clutch (especially in 1st and reverse). Mind you its not bad, but I can still feel the car barely want to move when I put it in first with the pedal all the way to the floor. If I pump the pedal a couple of times I almost never have a problem getting it into 1st or reverse.

All I can think is that threre is some major air pocket in there somewhere which cannot surface - should I be reverse bleeding this thing now?

[rhipsher]

Yes reverse bleed it salvator. Just have your son stand over the brake fluid reservour and tell you when there are no more air bubbles coming up and then just fill it up the rest of the way. You should notice instant preasure in the clutch peddle. And your done. All we did was fill a big serenge with clutch fluid. Loosen the bleed screw and connect a clear rubber hose from the serenge to the bleed screw and slowley sqweeze the serenge. Your reservour will start to fill up with fluid and air bubbles. Once there are no more air bubbles just top off the reservour and thats it. Usually takes 5 minutes.

[salvatore1]

Originally Posted by rhipsher

Yes reverse bleed it salvator. Just have your son stand over the brake fluid reservour and tell you when there are no more air bubbles coming up and then just fill it up the rest of the way. You should notice instant preasure in the clutch peddle. And your done. All we did was fill a big serenge with clutch fluid. Loosen the bleed screw and connect a clear rubber hose from the serenge to the bleed screw and slowley sqweeze the serenge. Your reservour will start to fill up with fluid and air bubbles. Once there are no more air bubbles just top off the reservour and thats it. Usually takes 5 minutes.

Funny you mention the serenge method because I happen to have a 10 ounce one I was previously using to draw old fluid from the reservoir (to flush my clutch fluid). This particular serenge was designed to inject liquid seasoning into turkeys - will this work (why does this sound funny?)...lol

[LGAFF]

Are you sure the rod is on the clutch fork?


I think the bleeding issue is alittle overplayed, mine worked from the 2nd or third pump....I had issues at first but the rod was not in the fork....once I put the rod in the fork provision, no issues

[salvatore1]

Originally Posted by LGAFF

Are you sure the rod is on the clutch fork?


I think the bleeding issue is alittle overplayed, mine worked from the 2nd or third pump....I had issues at first but the rod was not in the fork....once I put the rod in the fork provision, no issues

The rod is definitely at the fork I made that my main priority when installing the slave (I heard horror stories about what happened when people installed it off the center of the fork). Like I said, the clutch is working (pedal pressure is there, and I can shift), its just not 100%

[tomtom72]

JMHO, assuming that the install went correctly, and that you give the bleeding a shot with the turkey baster, and you still are not at 100% dis-engagement then you have deffective parts.

Sal, that is the only conclusion left.

This is like I'm watching a replay of what I went thru back in 05. However, I would e-mail Bill as he may see something that we're all missing on this case. Remember, according to GM a 20% deffective rate is at the top of their acceptable range. They said back in early 2000's that the spillage rate was 15% and that's why they were not doing much about it till Bill and Superrior brought it to their attention. It looks like they never really did much about the quality control issue to me anyway. JMHO

[salvatore1]

Originally Posted by LGAFF

Are you sure the rod is on the clutch fork?


I think the bleeding issue is alittle overplayed, mine worked from the 2nd or third pump....I had issues at first but the rod was not in the fork....once I put the rod in the fork provision, no issues

Tell me - what are symptoms of not having the rod seated correctly on the fork? I mean, its obvious you will not get any clutch action (engage/disengage), but would it still possibly work, just not perfectly?

[salvatore1]

Originally Posted by rhipsher

Yes reverse bleed it salvator. Just have your son stand over the brake fluid reservour and tell you when there are no more air bubbles coming up and then just fill it up the rest of the way. You should notice instant preasure in the clutch peddle. And your done. All we did was fill a big serenge with clutch fluid. Loosen the bleed screw and connect a clear rubber hose from the serenge to the bleed screw and slowley sqweeze the serenge. Your reservour will start to fill up with fluid and air bubbles. Once there are no more air bubbles just top off the reservour and thats it. Usually takes 5 minutes.

As unbelievable as this may seem to be, I think it's fixed. I reverse bled it and you were right - a whole bunch of bubbles came to the top (aka rosanne barr in a bathtub). Who would have thought a $2 kitchen untensil would work like that.

I felt comfortable enough to drive it to work (40 miles each way), and after I drove it awhile the pedal seemed even firmer. I can shift it now with my pinkie - and I think this is what we are after here.

I do still think, however, there might still be air in the system because I absolutely must have the pedal all the way to the floor board, otherwise the car will complain.

Thanks guys