Whats going to go out first,master cylinder or slave..............

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

Concur. I suggest doing both at the same time just did mine.

Would these work from thepartsladi?
And...what is difference between the Clutch Slave new and Clutch Slave new cast version besides $115?

Daryll: Which Clutch Slave did you end up with..the expensive one or the "less expensive" one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/91-92...Q5fAccessories Clutch slave new ACD


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/91-92...Q5fAccessories Clutch slave New ACD cast version


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-91...Q5fAccessories Clutch master

[GOLDCYLON]

They are Single cast metal (one piece) instead of press molded together. Usually I suggest OEM on these type of replacement parts but the GM slave Master Cylinder has a very high failure rate out of the box. Much like the secondary throttle actuators.

Bill B the ZFDOC.COM posted up information on the website on these bad slave cylinders . The rubber internal plungers are either installed backwards or crimped off.

http://www.zfdoc.com/CHS_Actuator_Seal_Fault.htm

I was happy to find a vendor who sold a new clutch master cylinder from the UK. Im not sure of anybody who is running these Single cast cylinders yet

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

They are Single cast metal (one piece) instead of press molded together. Usually I suggest OEM on these type of replacement parts but the GM slave Master Cylinder has a very high failure rate out of the box. Much like the secondary throttle actuators.

Bill B the ZFDOC.COM posted up information on the website on these bad slave cylinders . The rubber internal plungers are either installed backwards or crimped off.

http://www.zfdoc.com/CHS_Actuator_Seal_Fault.htm

I was happy to find a vendor who sold a new clutch master cylinder from the UK. Im not sure of anybody who is running these Single cast cylinders yet

This is a case for the ole saying "Always Something"

Thanks Daryll for the heads up

[Z51JEFF]

Can the master cylinder be rebuilt?

[tomtom72]

Originally Posted by Z51JEFF

Can the master cylinder be rebuilt?

In theory Yes, but if you try to order a "rebuild kit" good luck. I tried before GM became aware of their quality control issues and was given the "Back Ordered" response. I still think the master rebuild kit is listed in those "general" GM parts lists that you use at say GMPartsdirect.com to look up parts, but I've given up trying to order a kit. At one time GM offered a kit for both the slave and the master, which were also rare to find in stock.

I think it's telling that GM has removed the slave cylinder from their data base and list it as NLA now. I suspect that a quality control issue still exists with the slaves...I have no proof. I just think it's rather odd that after Bill B and Les Stanford chevy convinced GM to look into the quality issues with both the slaves & masters of the DOM type that GM withdrew the on hand stock. Further, while GM was listening to Bill & Les Stanford and saying that they would call TRW in to explain the quality faults found in the field use of the parts, you could not buy anything from GM for a good long while like 6 months. Then or I should say Now you can only get a master and the slave is NLA at GM. It's as if GM just gave up because they couldn't get quality replacements made at a reasonable price???

I was thinking to ask Bill if he has any further info as to the quality of the new stuff that is being sold by the aftermarket with respect to the slave cylinders....but I never got around to it. Besides Bill is a very busy man and I didn't want to waste his time with my stupid Q's. The only way that I know to tell if the slave has no issues is to take it apart. You have to be careful upon reassembly though because you can rip the piston seal on the snap ring's groove when you put the piston back into the bore. Bill says to chamfer the edges of the groove so as not to hang up the seal & rip it's micro-ridges.

Most of the quality issues with the masters were centered around poor weld quality at the hose bung, metal porosity causing leaks, and the reservoir foot not being formed right, and bore diameter variation and metal filings left over from drilling out the hole for the line bung. All of those issues affected the slaves as well along with the seal on backwards. This is the DOM types, the cast types of slaves only had the seal on backwards and stray metal filings. The cast masters only suffered from the plastic reservoirs foot not formed correctly and the metal filings not cleaned out.

Sorry to be so long about this, but that is the total of what I know of the past situation. I don't know if any of that stuff is relevant to any of the stuff being made at present.

Just as a fwiw, I have my new stuff coming and I have not as yet decided that I'm going to take it apart to check for all the past mistakes....I'm leaning toward doing so because the noises bad hydraulic parts make the trans make are sickening! It'll make you want to cry! The grinding noise is absolutely horrible! Let alone the knowledge of what is actually happening inside our gear boxes!

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by tomtom72

Most of the quality issues with the masters were centered around:

1. poor weld quality at the hose bung,
2. metal porosity causing leaks,
3. and the reservoir foot not being formed right,
4. bore diameter variation
5. metal filings left over from drilling out the hole for the line bung.
6. the seal on backwards.
7. slaves only had the seal on backwards
8. stray metal filings.
9. Cast suffered from the plastic reservoirs foot not formed correctly
10. the metal filings not cleaned out.

It seems to me that what goes wrong with what I have in the Z now is sealing only

If that is the case, I would use the seals in one of those new ones with all the issues above as a "rebuild kit" and toss the rest of the crap away

[tomtom72]

Originally Posted by Dynomite

It seems to me that what goes wrong with what I have in the Z now is sealing only

If that is the case, I would use the seals in one of those new ones with all the issues above as a "rebuild kit" and toss the rest of the crap away

Cliff, Had I known that GM was having quality issues from the supplier at the time ( fall 05 when my master leaked ) I would have saved the cores from the old master and the old slave and used the internal parts from the newly purchased "defective" new parts as a source of parts to rebuild my OEM stuff.

I just pulled the OE parts & tossed them and installed the new parts and...well the agony had just started for me. I finally gave up and out of desperation selected the best "cores" from all the new parts and used them as a base from which to assemble ( I used to say "make" but that is inaccurate as I didn't "make" anything! ) a slave and master that would actually work! The rest of the "new" slaves & masters I sent along to Bill because he asked for the parts so he could autopsy them and have proof of the issues on quality control. Some of the photos he posted on his site back then were from my selection of parts. I sent him a narrative of what symptoms each pair exhibited when installed in my car. He wrote back to me a detailed report of what defects he found in each set. It helped me find "new cores" that I could make into functioning parts. What a nightmare trip this was! I was beginning to think that I was incapable on installing simple hydraulic parts and bleeding them successfully! I had never stopped to consider that it was not my mechanical abilities, but that I was getting bad parts.

[Dynomite]

Usually what happens is the seals wear out and you just get a kit with seals, springs, and some other minor parts (at least that is what happens on brakes master and slave). I forget if I bought a slave cylinder kit or whole slave cylinder for my Toyota 4x4 when it had clutch issues (I think I bought a kit with seals at an auto parts store).

Bottom line.....what is one suppose to do on the Z slave and master cylinder? Everyone says replace both but now what?

[ckulchar]

Any opinions on the clutch master and slave cylinder from Advanced Auto? Description mentions machined out of solid blocks bored and honed. The master, slave cylinder, and some dot 3 synthetic oil would be about 158.00. There is a 20% discount off that and free shipping for on line orders. I was thinking of purchasing these.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...7411_-49997327___

Thanks in advance.

[Z51JEFF]

Originally Posted by tomtom72

Cliff, Had I known that GM was having quality issues from the supplier at the time ( fall 05 when my master leaked ) I would have saved the cores from the old master and the old slave and used the internal parts from the newly purchased "defective" new parts as a source of parts to rebuild my OEM stuff.

I just pulled the OE parts & tossed them and installed the new parts and...well the agony had just started for me. I finally gave up and out of desperation selected the best "cores" from all the new parts and used them as a base from which to assemble ( I used to say "make" but that is inaccurate as I didn't "make" anything! ) a slave and master that would actually work! The rest of the "new" slaves & masters I sent along to Bill because he asked for the parts so he could autopsy them and have proof of the issues on quality control. Some of the photos he posted on his site back then were from my selection of parts. I sent him a narrative of what symptoms each pair exhibited when installed in my car. He wrote back to me a detailed report of what defects he found in each set. It helped me find "new cores" that I could make into functioning parts. What a nightmare trip this was! I was beginning to think that I was incapable on installing simple hydraulic parts and bleeding them successfully! I had never stopped to consider that it was not my mechanical abilities, but that I was getting bad parts.

This reminds me of a nightmare several years ago.My brother built a car using nothing but the best parts.When it came to the brake MS he bought the top of the line Tilton setup.WE spent hours trying to bleed the system,at one point went through a gallon of brake fluid,fluid EVERYWHERE only to find out days later that he had a MS that was part of a batch of defective parts.Based on what Ive heard about the garbage parts coming from G.M. Im going to TRY and find a rebuild kit for what I have,if not buy the new parts and either use the soft parts or take everything apart and inspect the new parts.