Prices and Valuation

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by spork2367

30 years ago that was a lot more true than today. There are cars that are investments. If you went and bought a Delahaye, that is about as safe as an stock market investment. If your Delahaye tanks, you better be stocking up ammo.

That being said, most cars and certainly ZR1s as financial tools are more akin to gambling. Could win big, could lose big, would be happy to break even.



I think we're talking about two different uses of the word "market." I'm talking about the people who are buying and selling these, the "marketplace." You're talking about the market as in price.

The market price isn't what they are listed for, it's what the market can support. The unsold cars don't set the market. If every single person selling a ZR1 decided tomorrow to sell them for 100k, that wouldn't change the market price. No one would buy them. The cars that sell set the market. A 500 mile car doesn't set the market for 50,000 mile cars. That may happen in a market where there is extremely limited selection, but there is no need to extrapolate data when we have cars selling across the mileage range.

Keep in mind, statistically if there are 10 low mileage ZR1s for sale at dealerships (and I think that number is closer to 20), and that represents 10% of the low mileage cars for sale, there are 90 more for sale other places. That is a lot. And those are just the ones for sale. I think that it is extremely likely that there are 1000 sub 10k mile cars out there. This was one of the first domestic cars that people attempted to buy as an investment. Percentage wise, based on production number, there are probably more low mileage ZR1s (sub 10k) than any other 25 year old or older performance or muscle car import or domestic.



Except that the Grand National would be like the base Corvette and the ZR1 would be the Grand National X. Priced a GNX lately?

Fox body Saleens are a steal right now. I'm not a mustang guy, but I saw one sell for like 13k. I'd drive the hell out of one for 13k.



They dropped back down as quick as they went up. The guy who paid 80 something and the guy who paid 6 figures at the one Barrett Jackson have to feel pretty stupid. They'll never get that money back.

The problem with cars like Delahay there less than 500 ever made.
You spend 10 years and six million on restoration.
Then at auction it sales for three million does not make it a good investment.

[henryr]

that's exactly how i wound up with my zr1. it was too cheap to pass up on after looking at saleens and GNs.....

and i wasnt finding any low mile cars for under 15k....

clean 85 86 mustang GTs are 12k + if you can find them

i could probably sell my 165k mile 88 e30 m3 faster and for more $$$ than a low mile zr1

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by Vette73

Go price a 77-78 with a Pontiac motor , there asking price is crazy.....Seen many nice examples of 79s going for mid twenties at Barrett Jackson..

Very very low mileage examples bring close to 100K I believe...Think I saw a 79 anniversary with extremely low miles go for close to 100K at Barret Jackson ...

There were two that sold at Barrett Jackson northeast. That performance hasn't been repeated and those two buyers will NEVER get that money back out of those.

Originally Posted by KILLSHOTS

There is far more supply of ZR-1s than there is demand for ZR-1s. It's really just that simple.

That's it.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The problem with cars like Delahay there less than 500 ever made.
You spend 10 years and six million on restoration.
Then at auction it sales for three million does not make it a good investment.

No one is spending 10 years or 6 million restoring a Delahaye. But regardless, I never said anything about restorations. There are two ways to make money on restorations. Be the guy getting paid to do them. Or be the guy who buys the restored car from the guy who paid to have it restored.

Yes, there are a very limited number. Which is why they are a pretty safe investment. Your Delahaye isn't likey to tank unless the entire market does. In which case most commodities will suffer.

Originally Posted by henryr

that's exactly how i wound up with my zr1. it was too cheap to pass up on after looking at saleens and GNs.....

and i wasnt finding any low mile cars for under 15k....

clean 85 86 mustang GTs are 12k + if you can find them

i could probably sell my 165k mile 88 e30 m3 faster and for more $$$ than a low mile zr1

There are still Saleens that are going for great prices. One sold at Peterson's for like 13k.

You can buy sub 18k GNs all day long with a little looking.

There are also still plenty of fair priced fox body mustang gts. Finding clean ones can be a bit of a challenge, but I just acquired this one a little while back. All original, one owner, 56,000 miles, just a little surface rust on top and peeling pain.

[henryr]

flash me if you see a low mile 86+ GN for under 18k ive been looking

i dont follow the 87+ fox cars up cars but that'll need 7 - 10k in paint ?

[Hog]

Originally Posted by Ereeves

Not going to comment on the valuation side of things but I can tell you that all the track miles I have in my old C5Z and the few back road miles in my C4Z that the C5Z out handles it bar none. And my newer C6ZR1 out handles it and the C5Z. The C4 did not pull close to or way over 1.0g in stock form on the skid pad. And before someone says it I do not consider .90 - .92 as being close. A set of tires will not do it. Plus the light weight of the C5Z made it easier to acheive those numbers. My C4Z does not feel light and nimble like that. Still love my car for what it is and what it was.

I'm curious how the other OEM handling packages that trump the ZR-1 package handlingwise compare in your list?

C4s such as the:
91-95 ZO7 cars
84-89 Z51 cars

I didn't include the off road/race only C4 Corvettes,
the 56 1988 B9P Challenge cars(with Z51 suspensions),
the 29 1989 R7F Challenge cars-(with Z51 suspensions)
the 23 1990 R9G Challenge cars (with Z51 suspensions)

With reference to cornering performance, the ZR-1 was setup for all around performance/appeal, not ultimate cornering capability. Of course the ZR-1 packages top selling point was the LT5 engine, and the ultimate acceleration it provided.

The improvement in frame stiffness progresses by generation C4-C5-C6-C7. The stiffer the platform, the better the suspension can do its job.

For comparison purposes:
Road Track has the 1985 IROC-Z pulling 0.90g's with the stock Goodyear Eagle 245/50/16 rubber. The top optional engine was the LC9 TPI 305/5.0 liter engine 215hp/275lb/ft.

[XfireZ51]

The 84 Z51 was really a different animal than the others. It really was a track car in terms of suspension.

[PhillipsLT5]

The Marketplace
Virtually unchanged from the previous month(s), the collector car market still seems to be off 30-40%, with no indication it will improve any time soon. This is a great time to find bargains in a 'Buyers Market'. As always, it is more important to be realistic with regard to condition. It's extremely important that you do not over represent the condition of the car, whether you are buying or selling.

Note: We base our 'Marketplace' on Corvettes that have actually 'SOLD', not the many cars that are advertised month after month at unrealistic high prices.

We see it all the time, we get a call from a prospective buyer. They are looking at a 'nice' C5 (for example), advertised online. The owner is "asking" $24K for his 2002 Coupe with 50K miles. While you can buy a 'nice' '08 for that kind of money, you can't fault the seller. He has had this car for years, probably paid $30-$40K for the car years ago and wants to sell this car in order to purchase a newer one, possibly a Corvette. The issue is; He is basing his 'selling' price on other Corvettes similar to his, that he has seen on the internet or in other forms of advertising listed for unrealistic prices. 90 days from now, you can see the same cars, still listed and not sold. Patience is the issue: You can run out, buy the first car you see and find out later you are out $$'s, or take your time, search all the options and find the right car at the 'right' price.

C4 1984-96
C4 pricing remains stagnant, with no indication it will improve any time soon. While the pricing is dictated by the lack of many repair parts, many low mile C4's can be purchased at bargain prices and are excellent values for a driver Corvette. 1984's to '88's are selling in the $1200-$3000 range, while '1989-94's can be bought well under the $6K mark. Just this last week we have seen 2 Coupes with less then 30k miles sell (locally) in the $4500-$6500. It takes a significantly nice, low mile '95-96 to break the $10K barrier.