no start after battery change

[pablopicasso46]

Security light does not flash, so I know it's not a VATS issue

I'm not sure if they tried jumping the purple wire to the +, but I will find out later today,and if not have them try that..I assume the key doesn;t need to be on for that, I think, as I said , they did measure the voltage in the purple wire while tryingto start it and it was 11.5v..which, as I understand it , is what powers just the solonoid and should be enough for that? I did just go down to the shop and try to start it and interestingly, I discovered that the new battery was completely dead .no int lights or anything,so maybe there is a drain on it somwhere? I jumped to my truck..which has always worked before,but this time nada.. When i turned the key the voltage on the dash gauge did drop by about 4 v and I lasitened closely but I didn't hear any click so does that mean it;s most likely the solonoid(and not the starter itself?) As yousaid Dynomite, I find it odd that the starter would go out just whe the batery was changed(?)

Thanks again

Will figure it out eventualy , I'm sure

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

Security light does not flash, so I know it's not a VATS issue

I'm not sure if they tried jumping the purple wire to the +, but I will find out later today,and if not have them try that..I assume the key doesn;t need to be on for that, I think, as I said , they did measure the voltage in the purple wire while tryingto start it and it was 11.5v..which, as I understand it , is what powers just the solonoid and should be enough for that? I did just go down to the shop and try to start it and interestingly, I discovered that the new battery was completely dead .no int lights or anything,so maybe there is a drain on it somwhere? I jumped to my truck..which has always worked before,but this time nada.. When i turned the key the voltage on the dash gauge did drop by about 4 v and I lasitened closely but I didn't hear any click so does that mean it;s most likely the solonoid(and not the starter itself?) As yousaid Dynomite, I find it odd that the starter would go out just whe the batery was changed(?)

Thanks again

Will figure it out eventualy , I'm sure

One more possibility.....if you continue to try to start the car with low battery voltage there is more of a chance of burning/arcing the solenoid points (solenoid has less magnetic field to engage with full force). Further, once solenoid points are closed there is greater possibility of burning/arcing those points with the starter amrature having not enough torque to rotate the flywheel.

Hot wire the purple with 12.7 volts (full charged battery) and see what happens.

As an aside......I always disconnect my battery negative terminal (terminal easiest to get at with 8mm flex open end ratchet) when I expect to not drive the Z for over a few days (say a week). Even when sitting for several months with battery disconnected, the engine fires right up after reconnecting the battery. The batteries just do NOT discharge significantly by themselves even over a several month period when disconnected.

This applies to my tractors, lawnmowers, ATVs, trucks, cars.....everything with a 12 volt battery. Obviously I have to reset those items where memory is lost by the battery disconnect which are very few (clock and radio selection). I used to mess around with Tenders but got tired of having to leave electricity on just for a tender. I am a minority in this regard on this Forum (actually prolly the only one) just so you know

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

Security light does not flash, so I know it's not a VATS issue

Good, as long as you're not going by the past results. If so (once the
battery is back to full charge) try it again. We simply must make sure nothing has changed there else we'd end up chasing our tail.

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

I'm not sure if they tried jumping the purple wire to the +, but I will find out later today,and if not have them try that..I assume the key doesn;t need to be on for that, I think, as I said , they did measure the voltage in the purple wire while tryingto start it and it was 11.5v..which, as I understand it , is what powers just the solonoid and should be enough for that?

Yes, 11.5V is enough there on the PURPLE wire.
This is not the line that supplies the big current to the starter motor.

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

I did just go down to the shop and try to start it and interestingly, I discovered that the new battery was completely dead .no int lights or anything,so maybe there is a drain on it somwhere?

The easy places to look for current being sapped off is the glove compartment and the center console. I personally have had the center console do this. Regardless you need to find out what is
draining the battery. Disconnecting it each time you park it at night
is not an option and I strongly suggest this is a bad idea for several
reasons which I won't go into on this thread.
That would be inconsiderate. Do a search on this forum for "float charger" to find out more. To find what is drawing current at night
try this video. It's a bit long winded but accurate. What you need
is accurate info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

I jumped to my truck..which has always worked before,but this time nada.. When i turned the key the voltage on the dash gauge did drop by about 4 v and

Really really not a good idea to jump start the car ever unless it is
an emergency and even then doing it properly will minimize burning
up the 80s vintage electronics !! You want to let the battery recover
up to a reasonable level first by running your truck 15 or so minutes
while connected to the battery of the Z. Better yet put it on a
charger for 30 min at least. FYI these are not deep cycle batteries.
Taking them down to being dead shortens their life considerably.
Also attempting to start the car with less than a fully charged battery
in no way arcs the contacts on relays or solenoids more than usual.
In fact it'd be less because the internal resistance of the battery is
higher.

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

I lasitened closely but I didn't hear any click so does that mean it;s most likely the solonoid(and not the starter itself?) As yousaid Dynomite, I find it odd that the starter would go out just whe the batery was changed(?)

Don't think with a dead battery any useful info can be acquired.

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

Thanks again

Will figure it out eventualy , I'm sure

Yes, we WILL get this. We're all here behind you.
At this point and from all I've seen on this tread you're
likely to need to pull the plenum (or someone will).
To prep for this I suggest reading up on how to do this.
Even if your mechanic does the work you can still be up
to speed. Here is a link
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Inform...m-Removal.aspx

[Dynomite]

As an aside......I always disconnect my battery negative terminal (terminal easiest to get at with 8mm flex open end ratchet) when I expect to not drive the Z for over a few days (say a week). Even when sitting for several months with battery disconnected, the engine fires right up after reconnecting the battery. The batteries just do NOT discharge significantly by themselves even over a several month period when disconnected.

This applies to my tractors, lawnmowers, ATVs, trucks, cars.....everything with a 12 volt battery. Obviously I have to reset those items where memory is lost by the battery disconnect which are very few (clock and radio selection). I used to mess around with Tenders but got tired of having to leave electricity on just for a tender. I am a minority in this regard on this Forum (actually prolly the only one) just so you know

I do this only when the Two Zs (LT5s) and 90' (L98), Tractor, lawnmowers, ATVs, trucks, cars are sitting for a week or so.

IN several years with doing this (three trucks including a Tacoma, two JD tractors, three Craftsman Lawnmowers, Two Yamaya ATVs, One Polaris ATV, several cars including a 90' Z, 91' Z, 90' L98) leaving battery disconnected for short and long periods of time in temperatures 70 deg to zero.....every single one has started right up when battery was reconnected

The only item I have to reset on the Z (LT5) and L98 was the radio selection

Those are the FACTS and others can talk but without facts

And it does NOT make any difference on which post I disconnect (on the Corvettes I disconnect the negative post since it is closest to my 8mm open end ratchet wrench)

Also....it IS excellent practice to disconnect the battery when working on the engine as no one can disagree there except some maybe that disagree with ALL my posts

I do not disconnect the batteries on anything I might use within a week. I have had some tractors and Corvettes sit for two or even three weeks with battery connected occasionally without a starting issue. But in general I have always had problems with batteries connected for long periods of time and the worst thing you can do is let a battery discharge for long periods of time. So...in general this is what I do.

Oh....and I do my own modifications and maintenance on ALL vehicles with the ATVs and Corvettes heavily modified and ALL runing perfectly.

I will go out and hook up a battery with 11.5 volts and see if the Solenoid does its job and report back.....I have some of those batteries sitting on the shelf as I have to replace say a battery every 3 years having 15 vehicles with batteries.

Bottom line...you have an opportunity to try something I did not try when this happened to me.....connect 12.7 volts to the purple wire and main starter cable (assuming both cable ends have good contact with Starter).

[XfireZ51]

Cliff,

I have disconnected the negative terminal on my Vettes for years. Especially during the winter. I SPECULATE it may also help with retarding corrosion by eliminating electrolysis. Just a pain on the radio resets but who listens to the radio. The ECM does need to do a re-learn however but
not that big a deal.

[scottfab]

Looks like this tread is taking off onto "how to maintain your battery".
So.........
Here are some links on how most of us do this.
Again I do NOT recommend disconnecting the battery.
You end up unnecessarily zapping the electronics over and
over as you struggle to get the thread started in AND
read post #20 on this thread:
http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?...=float+charger
and of course as a complete diversion away from your
original problem here's a bunch more on float charges.
http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?...=float+charger

http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?...=float+charger

http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?...=float+charger

http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?...=float+charger

http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?...=float+charger

Good luck on your original problem. You have a new
battery in it so with a charge on it you should be good
to go in finding out why the starter does not spin up.
Look to my previous post for the link to a video on
how to find out what is discharging you new battery.

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by XfireZ51

Cliff,

I have disconnected the negative terminal on my Vettes for years. Especially during the winter. I SPECULATE it may also help with retarding corrosion by eliminating electrolysis. Just a pain on the radio resets but who listens to the radio. The ECM does need to do a re-learn however but
not that big a deal.

If you want to have some fun reading your battery charge (digital) and coolant Temperature (digital) as you drive check out #5 of
Manual Supplement, Secondary Diagnostics, Sensors, Electronic Automatic AC Explains the Calculations

a. Coolant Temperature.
Coolant Temperature - 16 indicating you are .............Coolant Temperature is 83 deg C or 181.4 deg F
at Coolant Temperature (Now Press Fan)


b. Battery Charge.
A bit more complicated for Battery Charge...................Air is OFF in this case
Battery Charge - 05 (Now Press Fan)..........................197 indicating 14.408 volts


Battery Charge - 05 (Now Press Fan)
at Battery Charge -105 indicating 13.742 volts
Air is ON in this case

[scottfab]

About half of the ZR-1s made are 1990.
The temp can be read out of the AC unit on a 90 but not
with parameter 12, it's 16.
That is hold the "Up" and "Down" arrows both in until
"00" shows then scroll up to number 16.
Now press the "fan" button.
The value there is deg C.

[Schrade]

GOOD info in that post Mr C; did I read more on other HVAC display parameters, in the FSM somewhere?

(or in '94 FSM )

Or is it in Owner's Manual? (just got OM from geezer; still reading) - THANKS Bill...............................

[Schrade]

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

Thanks guys..Was just down at the shop and they say they checked all of that (can the relay be checked without actually repplacing it?)and also checked that the (purple ?) wire going to the starter is getting 11.5 volts(is that enough?) so they have concluded it must be the starter. I'm jsut confused as to how it neve rgave me a problem before , cold or hot, but just stpped working after the battery change? Is that possible?

If YOU could charge the battery, and get the car started, and then NOW, with a new battery installed, the car won't crank, then the mechanic broke something (cooked a circuit).

I would FIRST get them to charge my original battery, get my $C-Bill+ for the new battery refunded, put it back in the original, and NOT have them see why the battery won't 'HOLD' a charge (find the parasitic draw) ...

Is the wrench hack a friend?


ed.:
And yes, a relay can be checked without replacement.

Test for continuity on MAIN input and output terminals of the relay. Should be open.

Apply 12V to the 'activator' / lower amperage INput; then ground the OUTput of the 'activator' / lower amperage side.

This should close the MAIN relay circuit, and show continuity.

Did they replace a relay without testing? If so, you should LEAVE.