no start after battery change

[pablopicasso46]

Ive had my '92 for almost 2 years and have never had a problem with it not starting, until recently, when I foind that after a day or two of sitting the battery would be dead. After charging it up it would start right up,but then be dead a day or two later, so I took it to my mechanic and had them test the battery, which they said was not holding a charge, so I had them put in a new one. Problem solced, I thought..but then they called me and said it wouldn't crank ??? Not the Vats, becasue the security light goes outwitthe key in.. He says it must be the starter which is very expensive to replace ($500 for the starter and like 4.5 hr sor $500 for labor),but couldit be somethng simpler,and/or related to the battery change since it dis always work fine before when the battery was charged?

[Kevin]

hook up with the wazoo guys and I'm sure the labor won't be an issue if it is the starter.

[scottfab]

Before ripping the starter out check the starter relay under the dash. It's located just above your left leg as you sit in the car. Also check the clutch switch located above the clutch peddle.

[pablopicasso46]

Thanks guys..Was just down at the shop and they say they checked all of that (can the relay be checked without actually repplacing it?)and also checked that the (purple ?) wire going to the starter is getting 11.5 volts(is that enough?) so they have concluded it must be the starter. I'm jsut confused as to how it neve rgave me a problem before , cold or hot, but just stpped working after the battery change? Is that possible?

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

Thanks guys..Was just down at the shop and they say they checked all of that (can the relay be checked without actually repplacing it?)and also checked that the (purple ?) wire going to the starter is getting 11.5 volts(is that enough?) so they have concluded it must be the starter. I'm jsut confused as to how it neve rgave me a problem before , cold or hot, but just stpped working after the battery change? Is that possible?

NO......11.5 volts is NOT enough.....You should have 12.75 volts more or less on a fully charged battery (engine off).

12.68v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%

Check your Alternator........measure voltage with engine running across battery posts......should get 14 - 15 volts more or less (if battery is not Dead).

Yes....that is possible you cannot start your engine after changing batteries if your charging system is not working or if you installed a Dead Battery.

Try another battery......just disconnect your Dead Battery and jumper a good battery with your Dead Battery disconnected. Do NOT try to jumper your Dead Battery.

Or.......you have an excessive battery drain with
Ignition switch off.

Check specific gravity of all cells of your suspect battery to make sure they are roughly equal. In your case no balls or maybe only one ball will be floating

[scottfab]

Originally Posted by pablopicasso46

Thanks guys..Was just down at the shop and they say they checked all of that (can the relay be checked without actually repplacing it?)and also checked that the (purple ?) wire going to the starter is getting 11.5 volts(is that enough?) so they have concluded it must be the starter. I'm jsut confused as to how it neve rgave me a problem before , cold or hot, but just stpped working after the battery change? Is that possible?

The good news is yes, that is enough on the purple wire.
The bad news is there may be a starter problem after all.
When you turn the key to start, the voltage on the purple wire simply runs to the starter solenoid not the starter motor. The solenoid (mounted on the starter) is suppose to pull in, even 11V will do that. Once it pulls in it completes the circuit which puts the battery pos to the starter motor.
Do you hear any click coming from down in the V when you turn the key to start? If so the solenoid is engaging but not completing the circuit. There is a silver dollar size washer ring in there that gets pitted. One thing to try if you do hear the click is to do several quick moves to the start position in a row. It may engage eventually BUT the bad news it will need a rebuild.
If you hear no click a different approach is needed.

[Dynomite]

Check battery voltage at battery posts.
12.68v . . . . . . . . . . 100%
12.45v . . . . . . . . . . 75%
12.24v . . . . . . . . . . 50%
12.06v . . . . . . . . . . 25%
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%

Maybe time to install Starter Relay to make sure you get maximum Battery Voltage at the Starter Solenoid
See item #7 of LT5 Added Systems

[pablopicasso46]

Dynomite:

The battery I had kept going dead , so I had to jump the car with my charger to get it to start in order to get it to the shop, which it did, They tested my battery and said it was no good ,so they put a brand new battery in it,and it was after they did that it would no longer start(turn over) They said they then tried a different brand new batttery and I believe even with a jump as well, and still nothing. The 11.5 volt the mechanic was talking about was, I'm pretty sure, on the purple wire to the solenoid, not accross the battery terminals. They haven't been able to check anything with regard to the alternator, becasue it hasnt started at all since the battery change

Scott:

I tried it several times and I do not think I heard a click, and I did , as was suggested in one of the "dreaded no start " threads , try to push the clutch down hard to make sure that the clutch switch was engaging. How can the cltch switch be checked other than by changing it, and the relay also? Is ther e a way to check if it;s the relay withut actually replacing the relay,or should i just have them replace it tosee if that fixes it?

My main confusion is that it always turnedover every time I turned the key.(.other than when the battery was dead, but then it did work once I had charged it or if I jumped it off of my truck),and anly stoppedworking afterthey put the new battery in it..Could chaniging the barrtery have caused this problem, , or aggravated an existing prob lem that hadn't been a problem before?? My feelingis it was working fine when I took it there,except for having a dead battery,and I think they should be givingit back to e still working as it did before, not needing $1000 worth of work to replace the starter .

.any thoughts?
Also if it comes down to it needing a starter,cananew one be purchased,and if so , from where? Mechanic says he doesn;t wantto put a rebuilt in due to the amount of labor involved in putting it in, and in replacingit again if it fails, even if the part is warranted.

Thanks again guys

[scottfab]

Well I think we've established that:
11.89v . . . . . . . . . . 0%
11. 88..................... 0%
11.87.......................0%
etc
and in fact 0V ..........0%

as for root cause
well

You have to look past the battery and whether or not
you last filled the tank or if the moon is out.
Time to focus on what is and what is not.
Forget all that has been checked and assume nothing has
been checked.
Turn the key to start it.
Does the security light flash every second?
No? OK

What happens when you short the "+" on the battery to the purple wire? (with the trans in neutral)
Nothing?
Ok
you must have the plenum pulled and the starter plunger and/or
starter rebuilt.

[Dynomite]

Check the Battery Voltage post to post. If you have 12.7 Volts more or less your battery is fully charged.

1. With car in neutral (car won't start but would jump forward on starter power if in some gear), jumper the purple wire with Positive Battery post.

2. Now if you have a No Start/no engine turn over (car will not start but engine should turn over), either the purple wire connection to starter is failing (from the point of your jumper) or you have a sticky Solenoid, burnt Solenoid points, bad solenoid Coil, or starter bound up on flywheel.

3. This is assuming you have a good connection to the starter from the positive battery post (in other words you are getting power to the Starter main coil (only interrupted by a poor Solenoid Points or inoperable Solenoid) .

4. If you hear a click (Solenoid activating and plunger moving forward) you have only Solenoid ponts to deal with as shown below or your connection from battery to starter main circuit is failing or starter coils or bearings or something else internal to starter (even starter gear bound up on flywheel as suggested in item #3 above. I would suggest that those starter failures would be rare in this case since all this happened only when you changed batteries. That coincidence would be REMOTE.

5. Now if car starts (actually it will not start with the jumper but definitely the starter will turn the engine over) with the purple wire jumper. It becomes obvious you have something in the ignition circuit eating up voltage to give you only 11.5 volts in purple wire (as measured before you jumped the purple wire).

Inspection, Testing and Reconditioning the Valley, Starter, and Coils

Starter Solenoid Contacts.

I had a NO START condition on a 90' and after I towed it for a start....got home and it fired right up. I would have liked to hot wire the starter (purple wire) when that happens to see if it is the starter or starter ground circuit. Or check that purple wire for 12+ volts when I turn the switch to start. I lean toward ground circuit or sticky starter solenoid. Another indication would be if when you turn the ignition key to start do the lights dim for example indicating a current draw to the starter solenoid/starter.

If the solenoid does not move (no clicking indicating the Starter Solenoid did not move) as in my case then a sticky Solenoid or Solenoid Ground Connection. If the Solenoid clicked/moved...then bad Solenoid contacts or bad connection Battery cable (Positive) to starter/battery or bad ground (Negative) engine to battery.

I Installed a relay in the start circuit of the 90' identical to what I have on the 91' which basically provides direct power from battery to starter Solenoid when relay is activated. This is one of those intermittent issues and does sound like poor electrical connections in either the Starter Negative Connections or Starter Positive Connections. Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks

The Starter Solenoid is shown in the left photo with slight burnt contacts in right photo.


The Solenoid contacts in left photo were wire brushed clean in right photo.


Complete Starter Disassembly.
Photo provided by others.