Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe - Page 3 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

8cam · 07-19-2016

Yep it's really just using the ball of your foot on the brake, and rocking it over to the accelerator pedal for a blip when needed. I do it on every single downshift, every time I drive anywhere. It's like breathing, totally unconscious, and I'm not sure I could unlearn the habit.

Here's how it's done, from one of the best who ever lived. In loafers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5wDmJGYGo

RussMcB · 07-19-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripler

Awesome Russ !. So you raced those open wheel thingys .

Yes. Still do. I left OW briefly for Spec Miata in 2014-2015 (and really enjoyed it), but I'm back to OW, working on a project for the 2017 season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripler

Question . From what I remember in the open wheel Formula Ford I drove , we still toe heeled on down shifts . I did depress the clutch on upshifts lifting throttle slightly . Is that how it is done ?

I can't make a blanket statement because cars and drivers are so different (and transaxles), but most formula racers I know do not use the clutch after leaving the pits (for up or downshifts). You do need to either Heel/Toe or LFB during braking if a downshift is involved, because a throttle blip is definitely needed to match RPM's. LFB is only needed/used if you downshift without a clutch.

Tripler · 07-19-2016

I know the Indy cars had sequential transmission so it was just push forward for up and pull back for down . Imsa cars had that also I believe . Fomula 1 have padels but that may also be the case with Indy cars and many other race cars of today .

Sent from my LG-D852 using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app

tf95ZR1 · 07-19-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8cam

Here's how it's done, from one of the best who ever lived. In loafers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5wDmJGYGo

Awesome video, 8cam! Very helpful with a "pedal camera." I also noticed
that Senna "blips" the throttle through turns (not for shifting). Probably maximizing speed/grip through the corners. I like it!

RussMcB · 07-19-2016

Another thing that's common with sequential transmissions is assisted "no lift" shifters - electronic solenoids or air powered. They are really impressive. A sensor tells the programmable computer when the upshift is initiated and it cuts the ignition. It all happens really fast and the driver just keeps the gas pedal to the floor (no lift, no clutch). I'm pretty sure all top level racing has that now (F1, P1, etc.), and lower levels. Probably every Formula SAE team has them.

My current project is (will be) Suzuki Hayabusa powered, and I considered a Flatshifter or something similar, but I enjoy the ole timey manual shifting.

BigJohn · 07-19-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic ZR-1

Left foot braking...
Done that for years in all automatics I've ever driven.
When I was 16 or so, I read some place that Jim Hall
drove the Chapparal that way.
Good enough for Jim Hall? Good enough for me!
Two feet, two pedals...
Don't know what a Chapparal is? (youngster...)
Google it...

So you got your bicycle out???

Mystic ZR-1 · 07-19-2016

could never figure it out?
Jim Hall never called me to drive?

nelson007 · 07-19-2016

I saw a picture of Jim Hall from 1967 in a Chaparral at the Nürburgring track a few weeks ago.
Nelson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic ZR-1

could never figure it out?
Jim Hall never called me to drive?

BigJohn · 07-20-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic ZR-1

could never figure it out?
Jim Hall never called me to drive?

I let you drive my car!

Tripler · 07-21-2016

So I took a few pics of foot placement on the pedals with 2 different shoes that I wear when I drive .
This first pair are super comfortable and offer toe protection which I like a lot with my walking skills . They are also flexible which is an important step to applying T/H maneuvers . As you can see the foot is angled towards the gas pedal and I am actually pressing the top of the gas pedal and the side of the brake pedal . This is one way that should work for you guys with basketball feet . You will have to extend your foot forward like a ballerina to blip the throttle . It does not have to go right to the floor board . Just listen to the revs and do your downshift . If it went smoothly then your blipping pressure was correct . If not then you have to apply a deeper POINT of your toe . That is ballerina talk for making your foot straight out from your leg . Bet you didn't guess you would get dancing lessons here too lol .

And here is with my running shoes . Again they fit snug but the laces are loose and the runner is flexible . A stiff shoe bottom will not work so fancy go out to dinner or office shoes or anything with a heel are not recommended .So no KISS boot's ! Place the edge of the running shoe on the brake pedal as you see in the first pic . As you can see in the 2nd pic I am stretching my toe forward and making my foot straight with my leg, called pointing in dance talk and blip the throttle . Do this in the driveway first with the engine off and see if your feet and placement of your feet will let you press the brake pedal and the gas at the same time . That is what you are trying to accomplish here . Using one foot to control 2 pedals . If you feel you had enough practice and are able to blip and brake then head out on the road and give it a try . Again do this in a safe location with lots of runoff area and no other cars or pedestrians around you . Just try 4th to 3rd as they are the easiest to shift . You rarely if ever would be going from 2nd to 1st but you will be doing 3rd to 2nd on a track or on the street when you become proficient at T/H

07-19-2016	#21
8cam Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Atlanta Posts: 451	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe Yep it's really just using the ball of your foot on the brake, and rocking it over to the accelerator pedal for a blip when needed. I do it on every single downshift, every time I drive anywhere. It's like breathing, totally unconscious, and I'm not sure I could unlearn the habit. Here's how it's done, from one of the best who ever lived. In loafers! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo5wDmJGYGo __________________ Mark '90 ZR-1 #1322 Daily Driver, 64k and counting Black/Gray [IMG]http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/mlitherland/IMG_0326_zps3d50d8cb.jpg[/IMG]

07-19-2016	#23
Tripler Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 716	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe I know the Indy cars had sequential transmission so it was just push forward for up and pull back for down . Imsa cars had that also I believe . Fomula 1 have padels but that may also be the case with Indy cars and many other race cars of today . Sent from my LG-D852 using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app Last edited by Tripler; 07-20-2016 at 10:47 PM.

07-19-2016	#25
RussMcB Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Marietta, GA USA Posts: 1,160	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe Another thing that's common with sequential transmissions is assisted "no lift" shifters - electronic solenoids or air powered. They are really impressive. A sensor tells the programmable computer when the upshift is initiated and it cuts the ignition. It all happens really fast and the driver just keeps the gas pedal to the floor (no lift, no clutch). I'm pretty sure all top level racing has that now (F1, P1, etc.), and lower levels. Probably every Formula SAE team has them. My current project is (will be) Suzuki Hayabusa powered, and I considered a Flatshifter or something similar, but I enjoy the ole timey manual shifting.

07-21-2016	#30
Tripler Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 716	Re: Why I Toe/Heel-Heel/Toe So I took a few pics of foot placement on the pedals with 2 different shoes that I wear when I drive . This first pair are super comfortable and offer toe protection which I like a lot with my walking skills . They are also flexible which is an important step to applying T/H maneuvers . As you can see the foot is angled towards the gas pedal and I am actually pressing the top of the gas pedal and the side of the brake pedal . This is one way that should work for you guys with basketball feet . You will have to extend your foot forward like a ballerina to blip the throttle . It does not have to go right to the floor board . Just listen to the revs and do your downshift . If it went smoothly then your blipping pressure was correct . If not then you have to apply a deeper POINT of your toe . That is ballerina talk for making your foot straight out from your leg . Bet you didn't guess you would get dancing lessons here too lol . And here is with my running shoes . Again they fit snug but the laces are loose and the runner is flexible . A stiff shoe bottom will not work so fancy go out to dinner or office shoes or anything with a heel are not recommended .So no KISS boot's ! Place the edge of the running shoe on the brake pedal as you see in the first pic . As you can see in the 2nd pic I am stretching my toe forward and making my foot straight with my leg, called pointing in dance talk and blip the throttle . Do this in the driveway first with the engine off and see if your feet and placement of your feet will let you press the brake pedal and the gas at the same time . That is what you are trying to accomplish here . Using one foot to control 2 pedals . If you feel you had enough practice and are able to blip and brake then head out on the road and give it a try . Again do this in a safe location with lots of runoff area and no other cars or pedestrians around you . Just try 4th to 3rd as they are the easiest to shift . You rarely if ever would be going from 2nd to 1st but you will be doing 3rd to 2nd on a track or on the street when you become proficient at T/H Last edited by Tripler; 07-21-2016 at 10:07 AM.