Starter or something else?

[batchman]

Originally Posted by Funracer

How do these contact points wear so much faster than every other starter on any other car
I have ever owned. Ours wearing at around 40K miles is way way early.

Should I dare to guess, was the warranty on these cars 36k LOL?

Sorry, just couldn't help it. I'm sure this comment will cause me to be doing this soon.
- Jeff

[Jim Nolan]

I don't know if this will help but, I had a '66 327/350 that would go through a starter about once a year. This would usually happen when it was hot after a long ride. Somebody recommended I talk to the counter guy at Ft. Walton Alternator & Starter, on Hollywood. I told him what was going on and he said he would rebuild it for high performance. The last 16 years I owned that car it never had a starter issue. It can't hurt to talk to him.

Jim

[max76]

Jim, do you know which are the difference between standard starter and high performance starter?
Thanks

[Jim Nolan]

No I don't. My 327/350 had I believe 11.00 compression stock. When I had the valves done I had the heads shaved. So the compression was something north of 11.00. With that in mind when it was hot and starting the starter could not overcome higher compression easily, (theory). But when it cooled down or compression lowered after a period of time it would start. It would seem like the starter was dragging when hot. May be it was old school technolghy (sp). I don't know.

[Funracer]

I don't know if this will help but, I had a '66 327/350 that would go through a starter about once a year. This would usually happen when it was hot after a long ride. Somebody recommended I talk to the counter guy at Ft. Walton Alternator & Starter, on Hollywood. I told him what was going on and he said he would rebuild it for high performance. The last 16 years I owned that car it never had a starter issue. It can't hurt to talk to him.

Jim

Wish I had read that yesterday. Bought a rebuilt starter last night! Might go talk to him anyway.

Going to pull the plenum this week some time if you want to come over and look around.
Bring your car so I can use it to help me put mine back together (just kidding I hope).

Neil

[rkreigh]

Originally Posted by Funracer

How do these contact points wear so much faster than every other starter on any other car
I have ever owned. Ours wearing at around 40K miles is way way early. Most every other car the starters are outside the block in the elements yet they last 100k+ miles.

If its the heat what can we do to keep them cooler?

most of the time it's moisture and gunk from having the starter buried in the valley of the engine

I'm noticing that in winter months the battery charge isn't strong enough with my smaller battery

the starter sel engages with a loud click but there isn't enough juice

second time I key the car there's enough to start

once the battery is topped off and healthy this seems to go away

for sure the lt5 wants full volts to start

[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by rkreigh

most of the time it's moisture and gunk from having the starter buried in the valley of the engine

I'm noticing that in winter months the battery charge isn't strong enough with my smaller battery

the starter sel engages with a loud click but there isn't enough juice

second time I key the car there's enough to start

once the battery is topped off and healthy this seems to go away

for sure the lt5 wants full volts to start

Ah! Good catch. You filled in another missing piece!

Funracer: Corrosion between the battery posts and the cable connector will limit current and result in a higher voltage drop when cranking. The battery will read 12.7 at rest (fully charged) but drop below the starter's minimum voltage/current requirements to work.

Also, as a battery ages, (effective) internal resistance (due to sulfating, etc) will reduce the battery's CCA, and the voltage drops as well. The solenoid will "clack" but the starter will not turn over due to insufficient current. The threshold between "is" and "is NOT" sufficient current is rather sharp.

Other causes:

A freshly charged battery will have a "surface charge" (you can google it) that would produce symptoms similar to what you've experienced. Fresh off the charger, it starts. After sitting a short while w/o the charger, not only will the battery voltage settles to quiescent, but a normal rise in the windings of the starter (due to heat soak) combines to prevent the starter from functioning.

Whether the resistance is the solenoid contacts (common problem) or battery terminal corrosion, or a weak battery, or burnt clutch starter switch contacts, or starter relay contacts...(some more likely/common than others), ALL can individually or in combination result in the symptoms you're apparently having.

I used to beat into my students' heads that logic is essential to troubleshooting, but it will not find the problem itself. We can deduce what is or is not, but before you get in there and look and take measurements, we don't know what is or is not!

And, I'd agree that if there is a loud click, then the external circuity, e.g., clutch switch, etc is not under the microscope. SO! If you determine the DC voltage on the cable going to the starter is sufficient, yet the starter isn't turning, then the problem is under the plenum, and ya might as well get to it.

[Funracer]

I started another thread that goes into more detail. I like to read threads that
have a Happy Ending so here is mine.

It could have been this broken lock washer under the starter ground cable nut/post:
[IMG][/IMG]

or it could have been just an old heat soaked worn out starter. maybe I'll open the thing
up before returning for core charge:
[IMG][/IMG]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. More pics in the other thread. Regards.