Bumper cover experts, Help!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by LGAFF

No I do not think anyone was commiting fraud, just want people to understand Ins Companies are not out to screw people

I wouldn't go that far mate. well not all of them are out to screw everyone all the time...

[LGAFF]

Bottom line is I chose not to proceed and informed AAA not to send me a check - that I would file with State Farm and let State Farm subrogate with them after the repair was complete. When the repair was completed the cost (including $2K for a suitable used bumper fascia, impact bar, and absorber) was close to $6K. I paid my deductible out-of-pocket but received a reimbursement check from AAA just 6 weeks later.

AAA actually was rated by consumers as the best claims service in a countrywide survey 5/5 stars across the board(JD Powers)....what you describe is the adjuster writing what they can see, there is no way to see if impact bars and absorbers are damaged until the cover comes off...those are then added as a supplement. 30% of claims have supplements

You cannot be surcharged for a not at fault, you could lose a no claim discount...if you had one or if your company offered one...but you did what you were comfortable with.....and thats whats important and why you have insurance

[tomtom72]

Lee, Thank you for your time. Thank you for the definitional information. I was very ignorant of the view point from the other side....so to speak. I mean all of what I just wrote. I have had little experience in this area, and never had much of a clue of what the ins co side of the equation looks like beyond the money. That's the output, you gave me the skinny on the process., or mind set.

Brett, my man! The materials & methods is what I was looking for, thanks Brother! Again another area of total ignorance on my part. I guess I'm not comfortable letting some one tell me how they want to fix my stuff if I don't even know what they are talking about....that didn't come out right?

I know I have bad injectors, I diagnosed them, I have a FSM & know what the steps are but am willing to pay to have it done. I use my knowledge to qualify the shop I will pay to do the work because I've done it before. I didn't have a handle on rubber bumper repair, so I had huge anxiety from ignorance. That's as best as I can do to explain where my head is at.

Lee, fwiw, I would not have approached this as "fight". I would have to present facts about methods and material and techniques if my concept differed from those of the adjustor. Without knowledge you can't make your case for lack of agreement with the adjustor. Of course if this happened to my cobalt I doubt I would be as insistent to find an optimal repair technology to fix her bumper. If you had a glass hull boat & ran over a rock at 30 mph, there is only one correct way to repair it if the crack is thru the laminate; but there are many ways to fix it all of which will not be optimal. If this was my boat I could debate methods & materials with an adjustor because I have hands on knowledge. I never fixed a rubber bumper before & have no clue as to proper M&M so whatever an adjustor tells me I would have to take as gospel and I'm uncomfortable with that. To my mind & GRP experience this is a freeboard repair, which is worse to do than a hull repair because the same M&M apply but you have less depth of laminate to work with and that makes the job 10x more difficult. If this cover was GRP, it would be 1/2 way to being repaired by now, my scarfing would be finished and I would be on my way to cutting the pattern for the duplication of the laminate schedule. But this ain't GRP. I flunked spraying gel-coat too, so I'm not a "finisher"....but I lay up a mean pattern & I'm a blood hound at finding delam...

Thanks for all the help guys, knowledge is comforting to me.


Tom

[ScottZ95ZR1]

Originally Posted by LGAFF

AAA actually was rated by consumers as the best claims service in a countrywide survey 5/5 stars across the board(JD Powers)....what you describe is the adjuster writing what they can see, there is no way to see if impact bars and absorbers are damaged until the cover comes off...those are then added as a supplement. 30% of claims have supplements

I understand your point regarding the adjuster only writing what he sees, but he knew the bumper cover needed to be replaced. The estimate even acknowledged the fascia was ZR-1 specific and parts availability was an issue. The only used bumper cover I knew of at the time to establish a "market value" was priced at $1,799, and I had shared that info with the estimator. So, their estimate at $1,800 seemed ridiculously low to me - but I was experiencing some anxiety issues at the time.

But Tom is in a different situation than I was in that his fascia repair is relatively minor and he would prefer to have it repaired than replaced. My post was more for the next guy that happens to read this thread. Just because the other party is at fault doesn't necessarily mean you're better off filing with his insurer. Doing so in my case seemed it was going to come with alot more frustration. I wasn't knocking AAA and maybe my experience with them would have been different had they actually been my insurer. For the week I dealt with them I never got a same-day return phone call - but ALWAYS did when dealing with State Farm. It just makes sense to me that your own insurer might very well be more responsive, especially when you are patience-challenged. I was pleasantly surprised that the subrogation process went so quickly and that AAA reimbursed my deductible directly to my door - so I didn't have to wait for it to filter through State Farm.

[tomtom72]

Could anyone tell me exactly what a ZR-1's bumper cover is made from?

It seems that there are some different materials that the covers can be made with? It seems to me that the parent material dictates the optimal repair material & method....okay I'm not a body tech. I'm just trying to not be in the dark so much.

TIA
Tom

[LGAFF]

Urethane

[jrd1990zr1]

I don't want to argue with you Lee and I can agree with you for most of what you say. I also can see where you are coming from based on your job. I have a different perspective. I think that any classic car owner (ZR1s included) should be compensated for their loss. Typically when an insurance company compensates and makes a repair the information is reported and ends up on Carfax. I assume you would agree that an accident reported on carfax creates a negative $$ stigma with any future buyer???

I don't believe insisting that an insurance company reimburse for loss is fraud in any manner.

The last 4 accidents I have had were sitting at a light and an unintentive driiver rams into the back of me. Two were corvettes and when the company realized I was not going to go away they compensated for the repair in a manner I agreed with including loss of use and/or loss of value. Call it what you wish.

The other two times the insurance company required the use of inferior parts which did not fit properly. On my 2 year old Nissan truck they attempted to install a "universal" Keystone bumper required to be used by the insurance company. (it was 1/3 the cost of an OEM Nissan bumper) After it was installed (BTW the shop had to field splice the rear wiring harness to make the lights work) They wanted me to pick it up. I looked it over and complained about the exposed splices. They claimed that it was "industry standard". I asked the shop owner to open the tailgate for me. He couldn't because the Keystone bumper didn't fit right. After 2 days of arguing with the insurance company they replaced with an OEM Nissan bumper and had to replace a portion of the wiring harness which they cut apart.

My point is Tom needs to be compensated properly for his classic previously no hit ZR1. All he needs to do is ask and I will help him out any way I can.

Like I have said we are looking at this issue from different perspectives, so please do not take my comments personally.

BTW they may have plastic welded my fascia before the reinforced repair. I may have missed that step.

I don't like to file with my insurance when the fault is with others. Althought it is an option as Scott describes, it is not an option I favor when the car is one of my classic cars.

I believe under NYS insurance law you only have to report the accident to your company and if the damage exceeds $1000 you need to file with NYS.

Sorry if I am rambling, I'll stop now.

John

[Z51JEFF]

Tom,I dont even know why you want all this hassle.Find a really nice,no damage bumper,get it painted and stick it on the car.Why even think about fixing this bumper when somebody else is going to pay for it.THAT BUMPER WOULD NOT GO BACK ON MY CAR.You guys can argue till your blue in the face about the insurance might not pay for a replacement,no repairs for me.These bumpers are out there,Mr White most likely has one if not youll find a nice one.The trim if its damaged might be a hassle to find.You guys can spin this in every direction as far as a solution to this goes.Id get one estimate,2 if thats what it takes,estimates AT THE SHOP OF MY CHOICE and submit them.Make the check out to me thank you very much.Years ago I had an 84 that got rear ended.No holes or cracks just paint,the cost was $1300.Not trying to piss anybody off here this is just how Id handle it.Another time somebody backed into the hood of the same car and took off.My insurance paid for it.The estimate was writtin for a used hood,not gonna happen I tell the guy not when an New OEM hood can be had and I wouldnt budge,not even a hair.I got a new hood.The airbrush paint repair?I dont even see how this can be done and be 100% undetectable when there arent any cut lines,a clear edge that just disappears?I would say an honest repair with used bumper and as many new parts Id could find would be between $3000-$4000.Whats the impact pad look like behind the bumper?

[LGAFF]

I am going to stop reading this thread

a)a used hood is OEM
b)Airbrush is not an industry repair

I should have never posted anything.....

maybe the mods can help me and ban me for a month

[tomtom72]

Just to kind of put a period at the end of this....not that it's not obvious that the car will get fixed at some point and Geico will admit to some level of liability, maybe even 100% as the claims person is reviewing the statements. No official determination has been issued as of today.

First, Lee please forgive me my stupidity, and thank you for your sharing of the knowledge! It was not my intention to annoy you, or any one else for that matter.

Scott, I have to laugh as even the mantra of "Eckler's parts are not for a C4 ZR-1" didn't even help with Geico's adjustor / damage examiner....no matter how hard I tried to offer alternative sources of conformation of "parts are NLA". I tried, and very hard I might add. I raised my voice & I shall return to apologize face to face on Tuesday to my examiner. I'm ashamed of myself.

Geico's data base is what they go by when doing an examination and it says a new cover is $900 + and is available and that's that. I offered to buy the used one in Tulsa for between 450 & 900 depending upon the out come of price discovery, but the examiner said "Are you crazy? I'm writing a new cover for this repair for the same money!" That would have been on me with no payment commitment due to the lack of final judgement on liability at the time of examination. You pays your money and takes your chances. Same goes for the rev lights I bought. Those are the company rules(?), and probably defined by law also? I suppose if the liability determination was final I may have had more wiggle room?

The liability determination thing blind sided me & I got brain lock! My lesson from this is that when I found two NOS covers in stock at Vintage Parts I should have added one to my rev light order on Tuesday.....liability pending or not. They were both gone by Friday afternoon after my "examination". I clearly blew this one! That's my summary of the 'lesson' to be learned.

Now this part is to show that I'm not a one sided ***hole! In Geico's defense I wandered around at their web site and found an e-mail box. I wrote to my claims person in charge of liability determination Saturday morning. I explained the parts situation and the errors in their data base. I further explained the deal with Vintage Parts Inc & that I missed the covers. I explained the Tulsa cover. I offered an exchange of links to demonstrate my point about their data base & my parts hunt results. Okay, it made me feel better. No I didn't think it would amount to anything. Well, I was not entirely correct, sit down for this....a claims person on duty called me Saturday after I e-mailed my comments. Her initial reaction was that the examination station personal dropped the ball, they should have known that owners of rare cars know more about their cars than most anyone. I countered, not their fault & data base is data base. She countered a supervisor should have been consulted right then. I countered that I returned the same day with my Ins Co's estimate after getting Geico's and probably spoke to a supervisor, data base, etc & not their fault & I left a copy of my adjustor's estimate. She countered they still should have done some checking on my info.& that she would speak with my liability claims person on Tuesday. There was more as she probed my knowledge depth & we had a conversation about value. I told her the truth on the value issue. Her reaction was in the future when the #'s are depleted original cars rise. I offered that I can document my car as I bought from the original owner & have all the paperwork from the dealership. Okay enough, my point is I perceive that some one at Geico is listening. Okay, I'll admit I'd like that to be true, but then why call me?

There is another lesson here also. It's if you cling to the fact that your car was all original and get stuck on that, you may miss the boat on some things. That was/is my mistake....don't repeat it! It's hit & no Ins Co can make that not so....your car will never be as it was. I freely admit I was stuck on "but my car had all it's original ____. & ____ .... you fill in the blanks. I have to & should have "got that" from jump, I didn't so I missed the new parts. Sorry to be so long about this, but I wanted to make the point about the "my car is all original" and that Ins Co's ( Geico in this case ) are not trying to f*&% with your head. It's business, not personal.


Tom