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Old 04-25-2011   #11
GOLDCYLON
 
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

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Originally Posted by VetteMed View Post
First time around I had some lean codes, even with the Haibeck chip. However, those disappeared after new FIC injectors and new fuel pumps were installed. Not a peep out of the ECM since then

Andrew
Cool. Lean codes? Now thats a Hoot. Would not be codes I would expect
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GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's)

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91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat

90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat

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Old 04-25-2011   #12
VetteMed
 
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

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Cool. Lean codes? Now thats a Hoot. Would not be codes I would expect
Well, think about it - you're doubling the airflow to each cylinder - if fuel delivery is not up to par, due to a clogged injector, low fuel pressure, etc, then the mixture will be lean. The Haibeck chip changes the injector programming so that both injectors fire any time the throttle is off idle, but obviously that's only as good as the quality of the injector performance, and fuel delivery to the injectors!
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Old 04-25-2011   #13
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

"Doubling the air flow" is not exactly accurate. Without the secondary throttle system operating, "impeding" or "restricting" is more accurate. An engine is essentially a positive displacement air pump. It's only going to take in so much air, directly proportional to the displacement. In operation, the secondary throttle system is like a supermax port job.
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Old 04-25-2011   #14
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

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"Doubling the air flow" is not exactly accurate. Without the secondary throttle system operating, "impeding" or "restricting" is more accurate. An engine is essentially a positive displacement air pump. It's only going to take in so much air, directly proportional to the displacement. In operation, the secondary throttle system is like a supermax port job.
Jerry, perhaps in the interest of brevity I over-simplified. When the secondary system is either removed, or latched open, it's allowing all 16 intake runners to feed air to the cylinders. This is double the air compared to what is delivered when the secondary throttle plates are closed. If the secondary fuel injectors are not delivering fuel (due to faulty injectors, poor fuel pressure, or an ECM command to not fire), but the secondary throttle plates are open, there's bound to be a lean mixture.

In my situation, the immediate lean mixture led to a code being set, which then caused the ECM to completely disable the secondary injectors, while the throttle plates were still open (nonexistent).

I am not under any false illusion that simply removing the secondary system doubles the potential airflow through the secondary intake ports.

Hope this clarifies what I was getting at.
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Old 04-25-2011   #15
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

No secondaries here! Love it!
Ditto
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Old 04-25-2011   #16
Kevin
 
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

i really need to drive a no secondary car, and I don't mean romp on it type of drive, but just a cruise around town to see how it deals with every day driveablity
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Old 04-25-2011   #17
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

Hard to tell the difference with or without them except more power now and less junk in the way
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Old 04-26-2011   #18
XfireZ51
 
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

Gentlemen,

The motor is going to use X amount of air and fuel at a given throttle opening. Simply activating the secondaries doesn't "make" the motor use more air/fuel. At part throttle cruise, the amount of air/fuel charge is going to be delivered either by one port and one injector OR split between two runners and two injectors. The fuel tables in the cal only deal with total VE at a given MAP, fuel delivered either by one or two injectors. Wth proper tuning, the difference in single or double runner cruising should be not very discernible especially if mods are done to move more air through the system(i.e. headers, freer exhaust)
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Old 04-26-2011   #19
VetteMed
 
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

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Originally Posted by XfireZ51 View Post
Gentlemen,

The motor is going to use X amount of air and fuel at a given throttle opening. Simply activating the secondaries doesn't "make" the motor use more air/fuel. At part throttle cruise, the amount of air/fuel charge is going to be delivered either by one port and one injector OR split between two runners and two injectors. The fuel tables in the cal only deal with total VE at a given MAP, fuel delivered either by one or two injectors. Wth proper tuning, the difference in single or double runner cruising should be not very discernible especially if mods are done to move more air through the system(i.e. headers, freer exhaust)
Agreed 100%, makes perfect sense.
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Old 04-26-2011   #20
sammy
 
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Default Re: i am doing a secondary delete tomarrow for....

guys first off thanx for all the responses/help. . this really was an easy job to do .we used aircraft wire to wire the secondaries open. we pulled all the vacum tubing and pieces . i also had to replace the starter motor as the dealership that he bought the steamed cleaned the motor before he too k delivery . it sure is one nice 90 the metalic rad paint with manual air and polished stk 90 wheels . the grin on his face was worth the 230 mile trip one way to help him . he was so frustrated he wanted to sell the car .but i told him our cars make us earn the right to own them and this was just a test.lol also told him his new mistress liked it rough, that the more you beat on her the happier she is . the look on his face was priceless
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