Camshafts almost done

[XfireZ51]

Todd,

What's next for the 427?

[Hog]

Originally Posted by tpepmeie

Just noticed my cams appear on the bottom right of this page:
http://integralcams.com/custom_cams.htm

Truly a one-of-a-kind now. Steve has sold the business recently. What a bummer, he was very good to work with and we might have had a long-term supplier of new LT5 cams. They performed flawlessly on my 427.

Todd

He sold the business, is the new owner going to produce cams?

How many hours on the engine now?

I was talking with a cam manufacturer about producing LT5 cams, but I couldnt answer all of his questions about the number that I would require. Any lift duration could be provided.

If I ever do LT5 cams, I'll just get new OEM cams reground. Way cheaper than buying cams that are ground from the original Lingenfelter cam core stock, or than buying true custom cams from non-OEM blanks.

We need GM Powertrain, Bay City to do another run of blanks. They just got a large cash infusion for 2011, around $38 million IIRC. The tooling would be around somewhere. Just like the ZL-1 427 aluminum block tooling was tucked away at the Winter's Foundry of which they made 200 ZL-1 454's and multiple ZL-1 aluminum block based crate engines from.

GMPP sold 2.0/2.2 Ecotec camshaft blanks for $78 a piece
88858611 for the intake
88958612 for the exhaust

It would be nice to find some LT5 blanks at $78 a piece.

Cams can easily be done, it will just take a bit of effort and a fair sized monetary investment to make LT5 cam cores available. It will also take open and honest sharing of info, which is difficult at times, esp. when money becomes involved.

peace
Hog

[Locobob]

Originally Posted by Hog

He sold the business, is the new owner going to produce cams?

How many hours on the engine now?

I was talking with a cam manufacturer about producing LT5 cams, but I couldnt answer all of his questions about the number that I would require. Any lift duration could be provided.

If I ever do LT5 cams, I'll just get new OEM cams reground. Way cheaper than buying cams that are ground from the original Lingenfelter cam core stock, or than buying true custom cams from non-OEM blanks.

We need GM Powertrain, Bay City to do another run of blanks. They just got a large cash infusion for 2011, around $38 million IIRC. The tooling would be around somewhere. Just like the ZL-1 427 aluminum block tooling was tucked away at the Winter's Foundry of which they made 200 ZL-1 454's and multiple ZL-1 aluminum block based crate engines from.

GMPP sold 2.0/2.2 Ecotec camshaft blanks for $78 a piece
88858611 for the intake
88958612 for the exhaust

It would be nice to find some LT5 blanks at $78 a piece.

Cams can easily be done, it will just take a bit of effort and a fair sized monetary investment to make LT5 cam cores available. It will also take open and honest sharing of info, which is difficult at times, esp. when money becomes involved.

peace
Hog

I agree, the scalping and secrecy just doesn't fit anymore. These cars are now 20 years old and the current crop of owners have more passion than money. Those with big bucks have mostly moved on to newer platforms. Continuing to treat LT-5 stuff like F1 technology is just silly. I'd like to see things progress in a manner that emphasizes maximizing the car rather than ones wallet. I predict those holding out for $5000 for crankshafts and $3000 for cams are going to find takers few and far between.

[XfireZ51]

Originally Posted by Locobob

I agree, the scalping and secrecy just doesn't fit anymore. These cars are now 20 years old and the current crop of owners have more passion than money. Those with big bucks have mostly moved on to newer platforms. Continuing to treat LT-5 stuff like F1 technology is just silly. I'd like to see things progress in a manner that emphasizes maximizing the car rather than ones wallet. I predict those holding out for $5000 for crankshafts and $3000 for cams are going to find takers few and far between.

Bob,

With technology advancing all the time, the longer the hoarders wait the less important they'll become. As we can see with some members like Lgaff and Blue Flame, more and more of these parts are being reproduced at cheaper costs.

[Locobob]

Originally Posted by XfireZ51

Bob,

With technology advancing all the time, the longer the hoarders wait the less important they'll become. As we can see with some members like Lgaff and Blue Flame, more and more of these parts are being reproduced at cheaper costs.

That is my thought as well. I don't have a problem with people making an honest buck for honest work - just don't see the point of gouging anymore.

P.S. None of this is aimed at you Todd, sorry to clutter up your thread. Love to hear more about how your 427 project is going - still think you should do a full write up on it for HOTB.

[tpepmeie]

I don't understand the hard feelings on this topic. Individuals can make a choice whether to pursue custom cams, some may decide it's cost prohibitive. Others don't.

My cams cost over $4000. most of that cost is in the machining of the blanks. It is not an insignificant machining process to go from a bar of tool steel to a finished product. Of that cost, the profile design work was about $400, and the final machining was about $800. The rest was making drawings (reverse engineering from OE shafts), the raw billet, and machining the blanks. I don't feel like I paid too much.

Of course, cast iron cores, produced in large quantities would dramatically lower the acquisition cost. But until somebody steps up with the non-recurring cost to cast blanks that's not an option. Off the shelf, generic profiles would eliminate the profile design fees, but might not be optimal for a given combo.

Horses for courses. These aren't Ecotecs, SBC's, or Modular Motors we're modifying....

[XfireZ51]

Todd,

Goes for me also.

Originally Posted by Locobob

...P.S. None of this is aimed at you Todd, sorry to clutter up your thread. Love to hear more about how your 427 project is going - still think you should do a full write up on it for HOTB.

[Hog]

Originally Posted by tpepmeie

I don't understand the hard feelings on this topic. Individuals can make a choice whether to pursue custom cams, some may decide it's cost prohibitive. Others don't.

My cams cost over $4000. most of that cost is in the machining of the blanks. It is not an insignificant machining process to go from a bar of tool steel to a finished product. Of that cost, the profile design work was about $400, and the final machining was about $800. The rest was making drawings (reverse engineering from OE shafts), the raw billet, and machining the blanks. I don't feel like I paid too much.

Of course, cast iron cores, produced in large quantities would dramatically lower the acquisition cost. But until somebody steps up with the non-recurring cost to cast blanks that's not an option. Off the shelf, generic profiles would eliminate the profile design fees, but might not be optimal for a given combo.

Horses for courses. These aren't Ecotecs, SBC's, or Modular Motors we're modifying....

I agree, folks can make their own minds up if they want to pursue custom cams. I really enjoy hearing the stories of owners coming up with inventive solutions to problems, just like yours. This is a course that I will never steer, but I enjoy it just the same. Those cams are beautiful.
I also don't think you paid too much either, in fact if I had to guess at the cost, I would have thought it would have been higher.

I do think that taking an OEM blank, which for the Ecotec sells at retail prices for $78 (roughly the same amount of material in the casting as an LT5 cam-Ecotec has 2 cams I/E for an inline 4, make that engine a V8 and you obviously require 4 camshafts-pass. side I&E and the drivers side I&E) and charge upwards of $4000 for 4 ground flat tappet camshafts, is a little on the exorbitant side. Maybe I'm wrong?

Cam blanks could be ground to whatever the user wanted, there are many competent cam grinders in North America. Have cam blank, will travel.

GM has supported I-4 DOHC engines with available cam blanks, back to times, when the LT5 was a simple dream people read about in magazines.

Yes, the LT5 is not an Ecotec, SBC or Ford Mod motor, but Ferrari V-12 and Flat-12 raw cam blanks can be had for $100 a piece and the Italian engines are assuredly more exotic than the I-4, pushrod or Ford DOHC I listed.

Was there ever a GM p/n for LT5 cam blanks? Ive found working p/n's for the remaining 375hp and 405hp cams, but nothing for blanks.


peace
Hog

[Pete]

I don't know what all this is about.

To reproduce our cams cost a lot of $$$$,what Todd paid was reasonable.

The price to regrind 2 LT5 cams is not so bad compared to LSx cams $500-$600 for one cam.

I personally paid for 4 masters that i have not made a dime or come close to breaking even, i did it with my money and labor.
I asked people to go in on it with me the excuses i got were i don't think i will ever put cams in my Z or what if it doesn't work.
Would it be fear for me to give it away.

I have looked into reproducing head gaskets and cams about 7 years ago and got the same excuses so i gave up.

Now i'm looking into reproducing bumper moldings and secondary chains also thinking about tensioners.

If anybody is interested let me know.
As you all know the more we order the less it costs.

Pete

[sammy]

pete i will help on the chains and tensioners if you decide to go ahead with them .