Megasquirt? What's the Situation?

[rkreigh]

do tell!! who did the install. You KNOW I'm jonsing (for life it seems) to get my hands on a TT ZR-1


I think the MS3 Pro is in my future with COP


thanks for chiming in Graham, good to know that someone has already gone there!!


I'm wanting to do a MS3 pro on a c5 too. They even have a Micro squirt that will serve as a tranny controller for a 4l60 slushbox



the MS is getting more advanced all the time and doing very well in the turbo cars.



Look up a guy named Denmah on the forums and he pioneered the "sloppy mechanics" you tubers with some very good free tech to get you started on the MS3 pro


he's slapped some old truck motors together and slapped them in ugly old ford fairmonts and rustangs and gone very fast for very cheap.


You'd laugh at these hoopties until they spank your @$$ These are 8 and 9 second "truck bombs" that haul the mail. I used to laugh at them until they showed me tail lights in all my expensive stuff. Now I drank the cool aid and I'm cranking out turbo truck motors.


the little alum ls 4.8/5.3 block is pretty strong so I'll be trying one out in the c5 turbo car and go up to around 1200 from the 800 I'm at now.

[grahambehan]

LPE install

[tpepmeie]

The issue with a standalone on the LT5 is the shear number of outputs required to drive everything. I haven?t researched the MS3, but driving 16 injectors plus 8 individual coils, plus a 4-wire stepper, plus ..... there are a lot of outputs needed. You?re not likely to be able to do all of that with a budget ecu. Waste spark helps (reduces 4 outputs). You could conceivably run the injectors in parallel, and fire PRI and sec at the same time. Buts that?s a bigger current draw on the drivers. Inputs are never the limiting factor in my experience. You need to add up all the things (outputs) you need to control and find an ecu that has that capacity. There aren?t many.


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by tpepmeie

The issue with a standalone on the LT5 is the shear number of outputs required to drive everything. I haven?t researched the MS3, but driving 16 injectors plus 8 individual coils, plus a 4-wire stepper, plus ..... there are a lot of outputs needed. You?re not likely to be able to do all of that with a budget ecu. Waste spark helps (reduces 4 outputs). You could conceivably run the injectors in parallel, and fire PRI and sec at the same time. Buts that?s a bigger current draw on the drivers. Inputs are never the limiting factor in my experience. You need to add up all the things (outputs) you need to control and find an ecu that has that capacity. There aren?t many.

And with the extremely low DIS failure rate, there is no great reason to replace it. The only thing the current DIYautotune MS3 pro needs to get is the dash coms figured out.

[tpepmeie]

Just to summarize, the LT5 ECU controls the following outputs. Anyone considering an aftermarket unit should be sure all of these (at least the ones that are important to you) are supported.

8 x Primary injector drivers (low-side)
4 x Secondary injector drivers (low-side), if using the OE secondary relay modules, otherwise 8 for individual injector control

1 x Ignition "bypass" signal to factory ign module
1 x Electronic Spark Control (timing signal) to factory ign module

4 x IAC Stepper motor
1 x Vehicle Speed output (low-side PWM)
2 x Fuel Pump drives (high-side)
1 x Shift Lamp (low-side)
1 x "1-4" upshift relay (low-side)
1 x "1-4" upshift lamp (low-side)
1 x AIR injection motor relay (low-side)
2 x fan control (low-side)
1 x Cannister Purge (low-side)
1 x Malfunction Indicator Lamp (low-side)
1 x A/C Clutch (low-side)
1 x Secondary Port throttle Solenoid (low-side)
1 x AIR injection solenoid (low-side)

2 x Serial Communications

Total of 34. If you want to eliminate the stock Ignition Module, which it seems most do, add 2 to run wasted-spark, or add 6 to run COP/CNP.

From what I can tell, the MS3 can only drive a max of 12 injectors, so they must be using the stock secondary injector relays. And we know they are using the stock Ignition module, although it can run up to 8 ignition coils directly it says. They must be using the full H-bridge to drive the IAC stepper motor.

I can't find a pinout for the MS3, so I'm honestly not sure how many outputs it can drive. My point is, the LT5 consumes a ton of outputs, even if you run it in "stock" fuel/ignition config. And up to 10 more outputs if you want to do 16 sequential injectors, and 8 COP ignition. That's very hard to find in a budget ECU.

Todd Pepmeier, Pepmeier Engine Development (pepmeierengines@yahoo.com)

[tpepmeie]

oh, and if not using the stock IM, you'll need another low-side driver to drive the tachometer.

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by tpepmeie

I can't find a pinout for the MS3, so I'm honestly not sure how many outputs it can drive. My point is, the LT5 consumes a ton of outputs, even if you run it in "stock" fuel/ignition config. And up to 10 more outputs if you want to do 16 sequential injectors, and 8 COP ignition. That's very hard to find in a budget ECU.

Todd Pepmeier, Pepmeier Engine Development (pepmeierengines@yahoo.com)

MS3-Pro Hardware features:
Freescale MC9S12X 16 bit, 50 MHz asymmetrical dual core processor
10 saturated injector drivers
8 logic level ignition outputs
3 high current (5 amp) general purpose outputs ? 2 can be reconfigured as additional injector drivers, and all can be used as PWM outputs
3 medium current (3 amp), high frequency general purpose outputs
All unused injector and ignition outputs can be used as spare on/off or other outputs. This ECU has a LOT of I/O!
1 stepper H-bridge driver
Camshaft and crankshaft differential inputs ? supports VR, Hall effect, and optical input
12 volt tach output
Fuel pump output
8 analog inputs (5 dedicated sensor inputs, 3 spare/general purpose)
4 spare digital on/off inputs
3 spare digital frequency inputs
2 knock sensor inputs
RS232, USB 2.0, and CAN communication
Onboard 8 gigabyte SD card for internal data logging
Internal ECU temperature sensor
Real time clock
Temperature range: -30 to +80 degrees C (-40 to +85 without battery for real time clock)

[tpepmeie]

Curious if any of the guys who bought one of these got the pinout along with it? I haven't matched up the I/O spork provided, but on the surface it doesn't seem like enough outputs. A LT5 version pinout would help, but I'm guessing there had to be some output devices not supported (AIR, CCP, CARS, etc.), which is understandable.
Todd

[rkreigh]

Originally Posted by spork2367

And with the extremely low DIS failure rate, there is no great reason to replace it. The only thing the current DIYautotune MS3 pro needs to get is the dash coms figured out.

the reason for doing this isn't just to replace the DIS, it's to offer better control over the engine, dual widebands, flex fuel, and superior ignition. The stock system will do everything needed, but the aftermarket ecms are much faster and offer many superior tuning capabilities.


Like the harley guys say, if I have to explain you wouldn't understand

[spork2367]

Originally Posted by rkreigh

the reason for doing this isn't just to replace the DIS, it's to offer better control over the engine, dual widebands, flex fuel, and superior ignition. The stock system will do everything needed, but the aftermarket ecms are much faster and offer many superior tuning capabilities.


Like the harley guys say, if I have to explain you wouldn't understand

I think maybe you're misunderstanding my post. The ms3pro is fantastic and supports the things you listed. You just don't gain enough removing the DIS to make it worthwhile, even with the ms3pro. Unless you're planning on building a flat plane crank hill climber..., anything more than the ms3pro is lipstick on a pig. The basic architecture and limitations of the engine just don't warrant a 4-10k custom ecu.

I run the manufacturing engineering department in a facility that designs and builds our own engines. From air cooled horizontally opposed carbureted engines to mechanical fuel injected engines, to liquid cooled 4 cylinder direct injection diesel engines to 2 stroke multi-fuel single cylinder drone engines, to our certified TEO-540-C1A electronically controlled engines with an ECU that rivals the cost of your ZR-1. I understand exactly what you can do with expensive ECUs from arguably some of the worlds best ECU manufacturers.